How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

You can't just draw a direct line of causation between beat cops, or lack thereof, and the nadir of American cities. There are many other things to be considered overall in a rapidly changing world. How can you say that the integration of local policing and community involvement is a negative?

I wasn't saying that. Actually, "beat cops" weren't a new thing in the 70s in the US. It was the continuation (in the final phase it seems) that had existed for decades or centuries - cops regularly patrolling city neighbourhoods on foot.

But as Rousseau correctly says, there are obviously other factors at play in the crime explosion in the US - a baby boom accompanied by the breakdown of the nuclear family and more absentee fathers, huge demographic shifts in cities, lead poisoning affecting young people's brains (look it up), proliferatio of guns, drug epidemics, etc.

The idea that so many cops got into cars and off the streets is also a factor for sure, though in the 70s and 80s you still had beat cops on the street way more than you do today.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

I prefer to refer to it as an unctuous cycle, myself.

Did somebody say "Unctuous"?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Did somebody say "Unctuous"?

Lio comes back from a 2-3 week suspension, and that's all he says?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by niwell

Also look at his uniform. While he has the utility belt and a sidearm Smith looks a lot less imposing than the kit of most modern police. The average Toronto Police Services officer looks almost paramilitary these days - ditto cops in other North American jurisdictions. I think these things do make a difference when it comes to community interaction. Hell, I was in Berlin recently and police look substantially less intimidating than the ones I see in Toronto, even if the latter don't seem to be doing very much!

Yep. Smith used his demeanor to do the "imposing." And knowing the streets the way he did, he probably knew quite well when to be sympathetic and when to get in someone's face. Tough love. Some of that video shows it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Lio comes back from a 2-3 week suspension, and that's all he says?

Who said I “came back”?

I’m not suspended anymore — that is a correct observation. You should limit yourself to that

[savevp]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Remember when police drove mostly white cars and had lighter blue uniforms?

Now they drive black cars and dress like SWAT teams of the 1980s.

Some time ago I remember this was discussed on SSP. The Americanisation of police across the country is a real problem. Black SUVs now predominate across English Canada. Toronto Police Service got in trouble for repainting their cars in camouflage Grey, so they relented and painted them just 90% grey instead.

OPP driving massive black GMC Suburbans. Out West it's even worse. Bloody hell, the TTC Special Constables are eve driving big SUVs these days. Absurd.

I hate to jump on the ACAB (or the imported All Cops are Racist) bandwagon, but the police really don't make it easy to like them anymore. Detached from the communities across Canada.

If there were national design guidelines it would go a long way, not that such a thing could happen.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by casper

They probably would have adopted a more hardline view. The PP crowd thinks criminals consult the criminal code and carefully consider the penalty before committing a crime. Changing a penalty from 2 years to 5 years will have no impact.

The hard question to ask is where do these people come from? How has the safety net broken down? How do we rebuild it?

So 31% of people living in the DTES are indigenous. Some trace this back to residential schools and the inter-generational impact that has had. Others to the lack of housing in indigenous communities. It is a complex problem.

Some are people who ran away from a problem family home at a young age and ended up in this situation.

Some are people that are unable to live in a modern society or are likely to be taken advantage.

Some are veterans who struggled with the trauma of being deployed in some nasty places in the world.

I think they need to address each of these issues and then see what cases are still left. None of these involve jail.



The Vancouver downtown east side has been a basket case for 30 years.

There have been many people that have worked on trying to fix it. Certain many of them have had a positive influence on specific individuals but no one has found the magic solution.

That's a very thoughtful and common-sense appraisal.

I wish more people thought the way you do, and perhaps we would all be in a better situation.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Remember when police drove mostly white cars and had lighter blue uniforms?

Now they drive black cars and dress like SWAT teams of the 1980s.

The white police cruiser trend was a cost issue, not a way to make them look 'less menacing'. When buying large quantities of vehicles it turned out to be cheaper to simply order them in white (cheapest colour to paint cars, apparently) and apply a decal package. Traditionally, police cars were some darker colour with white doors and roof, usually "black and white". The custom painting would add extra cost to each vehicle.

Back before the white car thing happened in the 1990s (I think), RCMP cars were a purple/blue colour with white doors. Locally, Halifax Police where black and white, Dartmouth was dark blue and white, and Bedford had light blue and white. IIRC, Toronto City Police used to have yellow cars ("big yellow taxi").

A number of cities have gone back to the traditional "black and whites", but IIRC there are still many white vehicles patrolling the streets, including the RCMP.

Now if you are talking about unmarked vehicles, they have always been in a variety of colours to blend in with traffic (the reason for being unmarked). I'm sure there are some black vehicles among them.

I don't ever recall local police or RCMP wearing lighter uniforms, though I won't say it's not possible. Traditionally, though, police wanted their officers to have a bit of an intimidation factor, otherwise people may not listen to them or may feel that they could easily overpower them. IMHO, it's only been relatively recently that people have been concerned with police being too intimidating. It's a different world now.

[casper]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That's a very thoughtful and common-sense appraisal.

I wish more people thought the way you do, and perhaps we would all be in a better situation.

Thanks,

It is a hard and complex problem to solve. What I don't like about our political system is we want political parties to have simple answers to complex problem. The world does not work that way.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The white police cruiser trend was a cost issue, not a way to make them look 'less menacing'. When buying large quantities of vehicles it turned out to be cheaper to simply order them in white (cheapest colour to paint cars, apparently) and apply a decal package. Traditionally, police cars were some darker colour with white doors and roof, usually "black and white". The custom painting would add extra cost to each vehicle.

Back before the white car thing happened in the 1990s (I think), RCMP cars were a purple/blue colour with white doors. Locally, Halifax Police where black and white, Dartmouth was dark blue and white, and Bedford had light blue and white. IIRC, Toronto City Police used to have yellow cars ("big yellow taxi").

A number of cities have gone back to the traditional "black and whites", but IIRC there are still many white vehicles patrolling the streets, including the RCMP.

Now if you are talking about unmarked vehicles, they have always been in a variety of colours to blend in with traffic (the reason for being unmarked). I'm sure there are some black vehicles among them.

I don't ever recall local police or RCMP wearing lighter uniforms, though I won't say it's not possible. Traditionally, though, police wanted their officers to have a bit of an intimidation factor, otherwise people may not listen to them or may feel that they could easily overpower them. IMHO, it's only been relatively recently that people have been concerned with police being too intimidating. It's a different world now.

Sûreté du Québec now have black vehicles after having dark forest green and golden yellow vehicles for at least 50 years.

Ottawa, Montréal and Gatineau police vehicles are white and blue, with more white than blue.

[MolsonExport]

Ah, cops with their aggressive get up and military kit.
Step out of the car please, SIR!!

We are here to intimidate, and serve.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by lio45

Who said I “came back”?

I’m not suspended anymore — that is a correct observation. You should limit yourself to that

Your bud TWAK has been looking for you. He possibly even missed you

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sûreté du Québec now have black vehicles after having dark forest green and golden yellow vehicles for at least 50 years.

Ottawa, Montréal and Gatineau police vehicles are white and blue, with more white than blue.

Police vehicles have been a range of colours throughout history. Actually there are police car enthusiasts online and lots of reference material.

I really just wanted to point out that the movement to white vehicles was an economic decision and not an image decision.

[casper]

Compare and contrast the Alberta vrs British Columbia pilot programs....

Alberta is putting more police on the street. Taking sheriffs who normal job is to run prisons and do security in court onto to the street.

One of the BC pilot projects to hire caretakers.

"Sarasin is trying to bring that same level of trust to his new job. He’s one of two Pandora corridor “caretakers” hired to clean up the chaotic 900 block of the avenue.

The pilot program, run by SOLID Outreach Society in partnership with the City of Victoria, is funded with a $125,000 grant from the Union of B.C. Municipalities." ....

“Their mandate was to clean up Pandora and they are definitely doing that. There are fewer tents and fewer ­people hanging out by the side of the road. So I think that’s very ­positive for the visual aspect of people driving down or ­walking down Pandora. I’m sure it’s also good for the businesses that are on the street,” said McKenzie.

“But it’s a band-aid. It’s not solving homelessness or ­moving people into housing. They’re doing what they were mandated to do. They’re being successful.”

Reference: https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...ridor-6488349?

If in the long run this ends up working that would be great.

[Coldrsx]

Alberta has expanded outreach/social/crisis navigator presence as well, but from my experiences in Downtown Edmonton, much of it is aggressive behaviour from more of a criminal/gang element, theft, vandalism and often drug use to help facilitate more of that versus the other way around.

That said, a complex situation with various approaches needed and compassion needed for some, other paths for those who prey on the general public and marginalized populations.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sûreté du Québec now have black vehicles after having dark forest green and golden yellow vehicles for at least 50 years.

Ottawa, Montréal and Gatineau police vehicles are white and blue, with more white than blue.

New police vehicules in Montreal are black (with some white); only vehicules acquired before 2018 are white and blue.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by begratto

New police vehicules in Montreal are black (with some white); only vehicules acquired before 2018 are white and blue.

OK thanks. I am not as observant as I thought!

[Coldrsx]

Data driven approaches by the Calgary DBA to address social disorder.

https://livewirecalgary.com/2023/02/...der-solutions/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Data driven approaches by the Calgary DBA to address social disorder.

https://livewirecalgary.com/2023/02/...der-solutions/

It's amazing how many posters on SSP are sleepwalking through the greatest threat to urban living in recent times. As that article points out the perception of being unsafe in the downtown core or on transit getting there can send those areas into a downward spiral, just as they did immediately postwar.

[mapleleaf66]

I remember being in Montreal several years ago visiting my niece. We had to take public transit back to our hotel late at night and we were a bit nervous. But there were so many everyday people on the train and walking on the streets that we felt safe.

The only way people embrace and enjoy the inner cores of their cities is if there are lots of people. Everyone feels safer in bigger crowds. People also care more about downtown if they reside there. You can put a million cops on the street but until you have citizens living and working downtown no one will want to go there. It's a tricky catch-22. People will avoid downtown until the homeless problem is solved and more people move and work there.

I feel that our generation of political leaders simply do not have the will or desire to begin to tackle the problem.