Saskatoon Roads & Infrastructure

[roryn1]

Regina built theirs to lower trucking costs which will incentivize more businesses to both do business with Sask and set up shop in Sask. Yes the greedy capitalists (eye roll) set it up for the 1% of truckers.

Just yesterday Portage La Prairie got another $100M investment announcement for a pulse protein processing facility, which is on top of over $800M in already announced initiatives in that area. I know for fact all of that was originally being looked at by Warman. Why didn’t they set up here? More expensive freighting costs where they wanted to set up around Warman (a road like this will fix that for the next billion dollar pulse processor looking to open up shop here), power costs are twice as much in SK than MB because of their cheap hydro (we’re now contracting more hydro power with Mb than ever before).

But omg these capitalists are evil. They’re doing it for the benefits of economic activity which apparently benefits no one lol. We wouldn’t even have a Saskatoon community as close to as beautiful as it is if it weren’t for capitalist potash. Saskatoon is only beautiful because of our commodity industry which heavily relies on rail, trucking. Come on man lol. im excited for all of the capital projects Saskatoon gets to do thanks to our resource royalties that other places can’t

[roryn1]

wow lol

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

I'm sure glad this hatred for people's fellow human and the arrogance in thinking that capitalists and their puppets in power know what's better for communities is being exposed more and more lately. The real answer is to educate and inform the population but then you wouldn't get a shiny, new bypass because they would then understand how much of a handout it is to people who are already privileged.

I really wish I could understand your rhetoric, but guess I'm a simple Saskatchewan folk.

End of the day you can have your rant but the roads keep getting built, people keep driving, and the World gets another day older.

I can wait for my F350 to drive on all these new shiny roads once they are built.

[Crisis]

"Arguing with an idealogue is like wrestling with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the idealogue likes it." - Apologies to George Bernard Shaw.

BTW, my comment applies equally to supporters on both sides of this argument.

[FarmerHaight]

[QUOTE=Crisis;8952084] If most people currently living here wanted to live in a more urban environment, they would be living in Toronto, or Vancouver. Or even Calgary or Edmonton in some cases. Not to say that there isn't a segment of our population that want a more urbanized livestyle. Those people may be in the majority on this forum, but they certainly aren't the majority of Saskatoon area residents.

I don't think this is true. I think most people who are in Saskatoon are here because of family or work/education. For plenty of 20-somethings like me the tie of family is stronger than the desire to live in Toronto or Vancouver.

I think there are people who want to keep a foot in both worlds: I have a work colleague who drives a 1/4 ton for no practical purpose but also bikes to work. I also know another woman who lives in an apartment in Stonebridge but takes a bus downtown regularly. If she wasn't left waiting for unreliable busses half the time maybe she would always ride the bus?

My wife and I just sold our second care because we moved to a core neighbourhood. The only time we use our car is to drive to Erindale and Wildwood to visit family. If the BRT system could actually take us from Broadway to Erindale in 25 minutes we could go everywhere we needed by bike or bus and wouldn't need to drive our vehicle inside the city at all.

The attitude that citizens who want to live an urban lifestyle should move somewhere else is stupid. As the province's population ages Saskatoon and Regina need to do everything possible to retain college graduates who appreciate things like public transportation, urban density and shared public spaces.

[roryn1]

FarmerHaight hit the nail on the head.

I live downtown right now and now that i’m working from home indefinitely I kind of want to move out of the downtown. I would never live in the burbs so I’d like a perimeter highway to get around. I think Covid is definitely going to promote more to acreages, so this is definitely necessary.

It’s mostly necessary for our trucking infrastructure though. We need to stay cost competitive to AB and MB when shipping goods or manufacturing jobs will go to those provinces. There’s a major announcement for a pulse processing thing happening tomorrow morning with AGT foods. I’m not exactly sure if it’s the size of MB’s $1B in combined announcements the last few years in pulse processing, but it’s something that will need infrastructure for both raw peas, and the raw processes end product. Google Ingredion Saskatoon for more info on our huge investments in plant protein around Saskatoon! More to come on that space around here 👍

[Dalreg]

The Regina bypass is obviously your sore point here dj. If and when Saskatoon builds this, with the help of the province and feds, so be it. It will get built and all your moan and groan won't change that.

Long term this will help a huge chunk of Saskatoon and Saskatchewan residents so I say build it now!

[roryn1]

CN and CP offer such ridiculous rates compared to what they offer in AB and MB for Intermodal, so as a province our only options are creating an crown rail corp or getting better at truck transport. We actually kick ass at truck transport already and this will continue to lower costs and promote more local products. A good example of this is Black Fox Distillery figuring out how to cost effectively ship their award winning gin to Europe, without having to move to Calgary or Winnipeg just to offset shipping costs. The Regina Bypass has already made great strides in cutting costs and better integrating intermodal into the province - check out Canada’s first privately run intermodal facility https://www.intermobil.ca/

[Crisis]

Needed to re-animate this thread from the depths of page 2.

Wondering about people's thoughts on the City of Saskatoon considering a change to 40kph speed limits in residential areas. What do you think?

I really don't think it's needed. I'm not aware of a multitude of vehicular incidents (hitting pedestrians or other vehicles) that would necessitate this change.

Will a change from 50kph to 40kph result in fewer incidents? Almost certainly. And a drop to 30kph would likely result in even fewer. 20kph? Might bring it close to zero, other than cars getting rear-ended by bicycles. An extreme proposal, but you get my point. At what speed does the need for efficient movement of vehicles intersect with the safety of those roads?

Of primary concern is the idea that any road with street-facing homes is considered a "residential" street. That would include most of the arterial streets in the city: Idylwyld, 8th street, 22nd street, College Drive. Though the extent of the application of a reduced speed limit (if any) is still to be determined, I would hope that a bit of common sense would enter into the decision.

[asdfgh]

If people haven't seen this, today is the last day for the Province's engagement on the next phase of the Saskatoon Freeway.

https://www.saskatoonfreewayvoh.ca/

It's definitely worth taking a look at.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Needed to re-animate this thread from the depths of page 2.

Wondering about people's thoughts on the City of Saskatoon considering a change to 40kph speed limits in residential areas. What do you think?

I really don't think it's needed. I'm not aware of a multitude of vehicular incidents (hitting pedestrians or other vehicles) that would necessitate this change.

Will a change from 50kph to 40kph result in fewer incidents? Almost certainly. And a drop to 30kph would likely result in even fewer. 20kph? Might bring it close to zero, other than cars getting rear-ended by bicycles. An extreme proposal, but you get my point. At what speed does the need for efficient movement of vehicles intersect with the safety of those roads?

Of primary concern is the idea that any road with street-facing homes is considered a "residential" street. That would include most of the arterial streets in the city: Idylwyld, 8th street, 22nd street, College Drive. Though the extent of the application of a reduced speed limit (if any) is still to be determined, I would hope that a bit of common sense would enter into the decision.

I'm all for it on the local neighbourhood streets, and am open to being convinced on some of the busier routes.

I've tried many times in the past to consciously and deliberately drive at 50 kph on local streets (when I felt it was safe to do so) and it just feels way too fast. It feels like it's wrong and shouldn't be allowed. This is especially so on the narrower streets in older central neighbourhoods with cars parked on both sides (that a kid could emerge from at a moment's notice), but I've found it to be the case in suburban areas as well. It seems my typical going rate on these streets is around 40 kph.

Literature that I've read is that fatalities of vulnerable road users in motor vehicle accidents (pedestrians, cyclists) go down considerably with a 10 kph reduction in speed, and Saskatoon has pedestrian fatalities every year. I also think that impacts of the lower speed on travel times would be barely noticeable.

Another consideration to slowing traffic that's worth noting -- noise reduction and the change to the "feel" of streets, especially on our more pedestrian-heavy streets in the downtown and adjacent areas. They're a lot more pleasant to walk on, or spend time on, when the traffic is a little calmer. I'm less concerned about this effect, say, out on 8th Street. Although if the City wants to make corridors like that more attractive for mixed use development with residential over the next 40 years, then we need to be thinking about making those places into more pleasant living environments as well.

[Crisis]

Here's the link to the COS Project page for the Speed Limit Review:

https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/speed-limit-review

It contains a link to a survey on the subject and has a comments forum near the bottom of the page.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Another consideration to slowing traffic that's worth noting -- noise reduction and the change to the "feel" of streets, especially on our more pedestrian-heavy streets in the downtown and adjacent areas. They're a lot more pleasant to walk on, or spend time on, when the traffic is a little calmer. I'm less concerned about this effect, say, out on 8th Street. Although if the City wants to make corridors like that more attractive for mixed use development with residential over the next 40 years, then we need to be thinking about making those places into more pleasant living environments as well.

I think this aspect cannot be overstated. When I lived near Broadway I would cut through the residential streets depending on when traffic lights changed, slow drivers in front of me, etc. By reducing the speed on most streets while keeping a 50 kph limit on key arterial streets the city can funnel traffic to wider streets more capable of handling the speed.

Cities should be designed for people, whether they choose to walk, bike or drive. Reducing speed limits to 40 kph would likely make more cyclists feel comfortable riding on the street, may make crossing the street as a pedestrian feel less daunting and will absolutely reduce traffic collisions.

[Spocket]

Even though I already drive around 40 on residential streets, I think this is a pointless proposal. Speed limits around school zones are already reduced to a snail's pace and that's fine around schools but the fact of the matter is that until a neighborhood is sufficiently dense in population, this will only serve to make driver's angrier. Of course, the response to that is that, "Well, they should take the bus or bike or walk." Sure...but that's not feasible in a city that currently is built for vehicular traffic. All cities in northern North America are built this way and while it's nice to imagine some sort of pedestrian utopia, it isn't here yet and it's a long way off. You still can't take 500 pounds of lumber on a bus last I checked and biking to work takes a hell of a lot longer when you live in the suburbs. Actually, it becomes completely impractical when taking your bike could take double, triple or possibly even quadruple your trip time. You can't really talk about socially cohesive neighborhoods when you send all of your time biking to and from it.

So my advice is to wait until you have complete communities before even considering reducing speeds to a crawl.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Spocket

So my advice is to wait until you have complete communities before even considering reducing speeds to a crawl.

Isn't this a little 'chicken before the egg'-ish? Unless driving is less effective, people will almost always choose it (unless you have other priorities such as health, cost, etc.).

One of the reasons people walk or bike in Amsterdam is because the city is built for bikes but also because it isn't built for cars. Sure, you can accomplish this by building narrower roads or fewer freeways, but another option would be reducing speeds.

Honestly, the lower speeds may not matter because everyone (including myself it times) flaunts the speed limit. However I don't think lowering the speed limit on a given local road would impact drivers all that much, while pedestrians and cyclists would notice a big difference.

[phone]

Detailed routing announced for the east portion of the Saskatoon Freeway:

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-2/

I'd note the strange configuration around the highway 16 intersection -- no SB Saskatoon Freeway access from eastbound travellers. But those headed for hwy 11 would still use the current cloverleaf, or Zimmerman if needed. By the way, Zimmerman is going to be a massive artery, essentially hwy 41 headed into Saskatoon. Complex set of ramps around the diverted 41 and Blackley Road.

I know the Saskatoon Freeway is a massive white elephant with questionable at best necessity, but regardless it would affect the city immensely if this is ever built.

[Wyku]

Originally Posted by phone

I'd note the strange configuration around the highway 16 intersection -- no SB Saskatoon Freeway access from eastbound travellers. But those headed for hwy 11 would still use the current cloverleaf, or Zimmerman if needed..

Thanks for posting, always interesting to see what they come up with for these--and always a bit of a . That Hwy 16 area is a mess, yeesh. You can't get onto Hwy 16 from the Freeway if you're traveling North trying to head East either. I HATE when they do stuff like this. Especially when the simplest path (Freeway North to Hwy 16 East) isn't included. Having to take the cloverleaf to go between Hwy 11/16 is almost double the distance it would be if you could just make use of the Freeway, which I assume is what large trucks would have to do rather than using a Zimmerman Rd shortcut.

[FarmerHaight]

Not Saskatoon, but a good lesson about the perils of doing something on the cheap.

On Sept. 14, 2018, the Rural Municipality (RM) of Clayton announced on its Facebook page that "the Dyck Memorial Bridge is now complete and open."

Later that same day, the bridge collapsed. No one was injured.

Earlier that year, the RM had turned down $750,000 in provincial funding for the bridge because it was tied to the province's stringent technical specification for the bridge. RM officials believed those requirements were overkill, and would have made the bridge unnecessarily expensive.

"This bridge is above our needs," said Kelly Rea, then RM administrator, in a public forum. "We do not need this bridge."

The province's more expensive bridge would have cost a total of $1.075 million. As the province said it would cover $750,000 of that, the RM would have been on the hook for $325,000.

In other words, the province's "more expensive bridge" would have cost the RM precisely the same amount as the bridge it ended up approving — which fell down shortly after it was officially opened.

Late last year, the RM put out a tender for a new bridge.

The low-bidder and winner of the competition was Harbuilt Construction. Its bid was $1,923,786.06, taxes included.

[Antigonish]

I moved back to Saskatoon this month and moved into the Clarence/Cumberland/8th area, an area I wasn't previously well versed in, so I do my evening walks everywhere around this part of the city and walking down Melrose or Eastlake is like some barren wasteland of grossly underutilized streetscape. Those two streets in particular must be 4 lanes wide + street parking with no real activity going on. From 8th straight south all the way to Taylor.

Perhaps the city should consider rezoning that whole strip for infill and either creating a treed median (similar to Victoria) or redesign the street with a center median reserved for future BRT (or tram!!!) to accommodate the hypothetical infill.

Very few of the houses in this area seem architecturally important, many look like basic semi-spruced up crack shacks. Seems prime for some urban renewal (the good kind though)

[Crisis]

Just posting abut a Saskatoon road situation that has annoyed/confused me for many years.

Heading north on Idylwyld, the speed limit increases from 50 km/h to 80 km/h as one approaches the underpass beneath Circle Drive. The speed increase happens after the off ramp to Circle Drive


Shortly after passing under Circle Drive, and before the on ramp from Circle merges with Idylwyld, the speed limit increases to 90 km/h.


Why is this? There is no change in road conditions whatsoever between the 80 km/h speed limit location and the 90 km/h speed limit location. The only possible explanation I can think of is that, in case of flooding of the underpass, northbound traffic would enter the flood water 10 km/h slower than if the speed limit immediately increased from 50 km/h to 80 km/h.

Any explanation from someone here? Is there a traffic design convention that you can't increase the speed limit by more than 30 km/h in one step? Help me, I'm confused.