Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[foxmtbr]

Yes, outsiders tend to to be critical of Sac, but in a good 5-10 years, I think that will certainly not be the case anymore.

[greenmidtown]

Originally Posted by BrianSac

Ya, I was at my friends house warming party this weekend(a transplanted Sacramentan) in SF and the comments of Sac by some of his guests were so ignorant. Here's a few of the comments. "How far is that, 4hrs away"? "Isn't that where K-Fed is from"? (that would be Fresno). "That's in the plains right, or is that across the state line somewhere". I kidd you not, most of his guests were cool on Sac, but there were those few that made my blood boil.

A lot of SF residents are from the mid-west, east coast and know little about the West Coast in general outside of Seattle, San Francisco, L.A.. It's also a transient city. It seems like everyone's lived in SF at one point in their lives.

[ltsmotorsport]

It does seem that way, and along those lines, Sacramento seems more like a lifer city, if you like. More people seem to stay or at least come back at some point to Sacramento, and the outsiders who keep moving in aren't leaving either.

The word's gotten out! People want to live in Sac!

[NewToCA]

As someone who recently relocated by choice to Sacramento from Columbus OH, I can tell you that the city and area has some very positive attributes. It is less crowded than the greater San Francisco or Los Angeles areas, and is a good place to raise a family. The recreational opportunities within a few hours of the city are remarkable, and the city has a framework which could allow it to become highly regarded.

The keys are the downtown development, specifically K St and Downtown Plaza, while the Railyards are the most significant long term development. I believe the residential high rises will come, and gain momentum, as downtown after hours becomes more and more desirable. This will create more demand for restaurants and entertainment, and continued momentum for downtown expansion and upgrades.

In the meantime, Sacramento isn't bad, especially the midtown area. My wife and I enjoy walking around the area during the week, and are amazed at the infill development taking place. The trees are incredible, parts of the midtown area actually feel quite a bit like the midwestern cities. The city needs to get more "pop" into downtown, but the plans are fine. Folks need to stay focused on the goal, and maintain the momentum already existing.

Overall, we are happy with the choice, and are excited about watching the downtown and suburban areas (sorry) develop. One area of concern though is trash on the side of the roads. With the long dry periods, you can't count on rain to provide an assist with the cleanups.

You guys do a great job of keeping us updated on downtown construction happenings, and we appreciate it.

[downtownserg89]

Originally Posted by foxmtbr

Well, geez, I never knew John Madden posted on SSP!

Yes, that is a weird place to have parking, I don't know what that's about. It looks like the car is driving into the building.

haha, all of your guys' feedback of this rendering had me laughing for daaaaays.

ah come on! cut the building some slack! i mean hey, they had a vision, right? unfortunately, it's hard to distinguish that vision!

that building would look better in like, let's say, midtown or downtown like J street.

[downtownserg89]

you know what, i just took a better look at that thing and it is HIDEOUS.

so i take back what i said a minute ago.

[foxmtbr]

^ Yes, I originally liked it at first too, then saw how terrible it was. I honestly think I could make a better rendering myself, lol.

[ozone]

What does any one know about the new Folsom Lake College Fine Arts?

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by SacRising

It's Ok to say it TD, this building is FUGLY. F'ing + Ugly = Fugly!!! Art Deco had its time and its place. Its place is in Miami and its time was the 1920's. Now, my general outlook on this is; great concept to turn a funky corner into a high density multi-family project. I would usually care less what it ultimately looks like. But come on, at least try! Its fulgliness is hurting my eyes. I really hope the proposed Broadway projects do not try to emulate an art deco look .

I agree 100%; its just not right for that neighborhood. Where are the NIMBYs when you need them. There are a million of these things in LA, especially in Hollywood, West LA, and the beach areas. They look fine in Miami Beach, too.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

One area of concern though is trash on the side of the roads. With the long dry periods, you can't count on rain to provide an assist with the cleanups.

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure that I've ever seen a city with filithier roads and highways. I recall back in the 70's (don't laugh) Sacramento had the most manicured highways in the state. Clean, green and well maintained.

Ironic that the highways are so dirty when they actually do a pretty good job of keeping the downtown streets clean; (with the exception of graffiti, which has seemd to be out of control the past couple times I've been back in Sacramento.)

[urban_encounter]

I was reading the city staff report for the city council meeting today and noted a few interesting tidbits...

• Aura has pre sold sold 65% of the units

• Corus Bank's loan is contingent on Aura having pre sold 51% of the units

• The foundation must be poured by April 2007 in order for Aura to meet contractual obligations to buyers and they expect a 20 month construction timeline

• The cost of the land at 601 Capitol Mall is $13, 750 000 (anyone remember what the city sold it to Taylor for??)

• Plant Construction of San Francisco will be the Genral Contractor.

• Plant has prepared a Guaranteed Maximum Price specification book,
  that caps construction hards costs at $125,900,000..

• Corus Bank will lend BCN $132 million for the project

• Kenlin Capital LLC will lend $14.5 million for Mezzanine financing

• The developer has spent $6 million to date on the project

• The City of Sacramento will (assuming final approval today) will back a Bank of America loan for $10 million

• Total for project: $175,750,000

• The Permits for excavation, grading, utilities and foundation work still haven't been picked up from the city by BCN.

>>>Maybe we can expect BCN to pick up those permits within the next few days or better yet, right after today's city council meeting??

City Staff Report to Council:

http://sacramento.granicus.com/MetaV...meta_id=106359

[SacTownAndy]

Just saw this on News 10's website. Sounds like they've got a pretty agressive timeline.

Sacramento Expresses Desire for Streetcars
Written for the web by Dana Howard, Anchor/Reporter
News10.net

Call them trolleys or streetcars, they are quaint, nostalgic and about to make a big comeback.

The plan is to make the phrase "just hop on the street car" a household phrase in Sacramento in about four years.

Six months ago Regional Transit began looking at ways to bring in a $50 million fleet of new streetcars to run from midtown, into downtown, across the river, and then onto West Sacramento.

The focus will be on providing service to passengers where light rail and cars leave off.

"I don't want to take my car here downtown. There's just no parking, there is no parking here," says Terry Delgado. She works downtown and often uses light rail to run errands downtown.

And she says forget about getting on a bus. "Buses, you know you always have to worry about a schedule. You know they are really not frequent."

Mike Wiley of Regional Transit agrees buses are not the best choice for that kind of application. He says streetcars were a perfect fit for downtown Sacramento for four decades until they were torn out by a company called National City Lines.

"National City Lines was a company owned by General Motors and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company and they introduced the competition which was buses." said Wiley. He adds the routes have not been determined but will likely extend from the 18th Street area in midtown and run back and forth between West Sacramento, stopping every few blocks and reaching locations light rail cannot.

Wiley says Portland, Oregon’s system is one to be modeled for what Sacramento has in mind.




And on a related note, we watched a documentary in one of my planning classes a while back called "Taken for a Ride". If you have interest in this subject matter (removal of street cars from American cities), then I highly recommend it.

[urban_encounter]

I wonder where the $$$ will come from ?

Money is always the sticking point in Sacramento...

[TowerDistrict]

Originally Posted by SacTownAndy

Just saw this on News 10's website. Sounds like they've got a pretty agressive timeline.

There was a story about it on KXJZ. It coincided with Light Rail's 20th anniversary. I haven't checked it out yet, but here is the link. Just click "listen" towards the bottom.

The speaker is William Burg, whose name seems to pop up fairly often when projects are being opposed near the R Street and Alhambra corridors. I'll probably pick up his book on the subject sometime.

[greenmidtown]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

I wonder where the $$$ will come from ?

Money is always the sticking point in Sacramento...

In Portland they've had a problem sustaining funding due to the added burden of the streetcar operating costs. But we have a void of public transit, minus buses, covering much of Midtown and Downtown that would be filled nicely with a streetcar. I'm not sure if a West Sac connection is necessary yet. If it's just a central part of Midtown/Downtown it might not be too expensive.

[TowerDistrict]

i don't get the West Sac connection either. Is this because they want another city to chip in costs? I think the streetcar system would be better served running north and south along 16th and 21st streets, between J St and B'Way. Then east to west along J and P Streets, from 7th street to alhambra.

and to add... if they utilize the WX and Alhambra corridors, they could use tons of readily available parking underneath the freeways, and have people ride the streetcars and light rail into downtown and midtown. employers could stop paying huge fees to park their employees cars and instead buy streetcar and lightrail passes, which would help fund the endeavor immensely.

[greenmidtown]

Originally Posted by TowerDistrict

i don't get the West Sac connection either. Is this because they want another city to chip in costs? I think the streetcar system would be better served running north and south along 16th and 21st streets, between J St and B'Way. Then east to west along J and P Streets, from 7th street to alhambra.

and to add... if they utilize the WX and Alhambra corridors, they could use tons of readily available parking underneath the freeways, and have people ride the streetcars and light rail into downtown and midtown. employers could stop paying huge fees to park their employees cars and instead buy streetcar and lightrail passes, which would help fund the endeavor immensely.

I just finished listening to the audio link from capitol radio and it's very informative, thanks Towerdistrict. I suggest everyone listen to it. The cost is estimated at 50 million dollars for 5 miles of track, that would be a great start! And if I remember correctly didn't it cost over 50 million dollars to connect light-rail to Sac Valley Station? On a side-note whether West Sac contributes or not I can see the motive. Cabaldon is an enthusiastic supporter of the streetcar because it'll be an economic boon for West Sac. But right now that would be a waste. We should connect the Central City before we cross the bridge.

[doriankage]

Originally Posted by greenmidtown

I just finished listening to the audio link from capitol radio and it's very informative, thanks Towerdistrict. I suggest everyone listen to it. The cost is estimated at 50 million dollars for 5 miles of track, that would be a great start! And if I remember correctly didn't it cost over 50 million dollars to connect light-rail to Sac Valley Station? On a side-note whether West Sac contributes or not I can see the motive. Cabaldon is an enthusiastic supporter of the streetcar because it'll be an economic boon for West Sac. But right now that would be a waste. We should connect the Central City before we cross the bridge.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I think going across the bridge should be at the top of the list.
You have Raley Field on the other side of the river and Raley Landing starting to be developed along with thousands of lofts, townhouses and condos planned along with businesses in the works.
Plus, if you put the line in, people in West Sac (especially South Port) will be more likely to use the system, if they work in the Central City.
We have to stop thinking about Sac only on transportation issues and think regionally. We should be thinking of the river as a street in the central city that needs to be crossed. Both cities need to develop the infastructure now instead of waiting and planning (which Sacramentans love to do) for it.
Just my two cents.

[TowerDistrict]

Originally Posted by doriankage

Both cities need to develop the infastructure now instead of waiting and planning (which Sacramentans love to do) for it.
Just my two cents.

agreed. but a streetcar system in sacramento shouldn't aim to strictly transport west sac / southport commuters into and out of the city. midtown, land park and oak park and east sac are already removed from their own center by freeways. i think sacramento should focus FIRST on connecting it's own central neighborhoods with downtown, before we go and connect downtown with west sacramento. that doesn't really benefit anyone but west sac. which is fine in the long run, but i don't see how that should be the priority.

though the streetcars did formerly run across the river. as seen at the bottom of this old image. i especially can't imagine why that was needed. what was on the other side of the river in the 20's?

[downtownserg89]

Originally Posted by foxmtbr

^ Yes, I originally liked it at first too, then saw how terrible it was. I honestly think I could make a better rendering myself, lol.

well you know me. i've said it once and i'll say it again. i have no life! and here's proof!



i gotta say this, i wasnt taking it very serious! it's like a fantasy of mine, lofts with a night club theme. theres a night club on the roof! but i was too lazy to make it.