PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[skyhigh07]

I think the biggest missing tooth for S Broad right now is The Bellevue. It’s always been the crown jewel with the most activity. It used to have The Palm, Starbucks, food court, Ralph Lauren, Williams Sonoma plus offices above. Once it’s back online with residential, restaurants etc, I think it’ll make a huge difference for the area. Work on it seems slow though.

[DudeGuy]

An idle thought, but I think as the area around 30th Street Station continues to develop, the existence of the old postal building / IRS is really going to hold the area back. It doesn't interact with the street at all. My dream scenario is that someone buys it and remodels it similar to the Hearst Tower in Manhattan.

[BroadandMarket]

You should have seen it around 2010 before they renovated the sidewalk and entrance around the IRS building. There was even a gap in cap so the east side of the building was walled off with 76/train tracks down below. Now there's beautiful planters with trees and sitting areas. This was also before 30th street station added the porch so what is now a beautiful plaza was mostly just car lanes.

[japmes]

This seems like a big deal.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/am...-20231026.html

"With the new structure, customers traveling from Philadelphia to New York can buy tickets starting at $19 if they choose the low-cost “Value” option or $21 if they want more flexibility. Previously a flexible ticket for the same trip would cost at least $128. A ticket to Boston from Philadelphia in coach could cost customers as low as $35 with the new flexible option, whereas it used to cost $223."

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by japmes

This seems like a big deal.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/am...-20231026.html

"With the new structure, customers traveling from Philadelphia to New York can buy tickets starting at $19 if they choose the low-cost “Value” option or $21 if they want more flexibility. Previously a flexible ticket for the same trip would cost at least $128. A ticket to Boston from Philadelphia in coach could cost customers as low as $35 with the new flexible option, whereas it used to cost $223."

As someone who rides Amtrak multiple times a week and has already experienced this, the big change is that the base fare is now partially refundable. Before it wasn't. It's a welcome change as I try to buy my tickets far in advance and sometimes my plans change, so until now, I just lost the money.

However, the advertised starting price is a bit misleading. To get a $19 fare to NYC you have to books weeks and weeks in advance and very few people (especially casual riders) are doing that.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by japmes

This seems like a big deal.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/am...-20231026.html

"With the new structure, customers traveling from Philadelphia to New York can buy tickets starting at $19 if they choose the low-cost “Value” option or $21 if they want more flexibility. Previously a flexible ticket for the same trip would cost at least $128. A ticket to Boston from Philadelphia in coach could cost customers as low as $35 with the new flexible option, whereas it used to cost $223."

Just looked. It's only for terrible times. This is a non-story.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Just looked. It's only for terrible times. This is a non-story.

I'm not sure.

I just booked my December tickets for Amtrak to NYC for work.

They were $16 a pop from Cornwells Heights during rush hour (definitely not a "terrible" time). I'm assuming from 30th Street they are probably a few dollars more. The point is, I'm booking the ticket now and it's for December. The low fares exist but they exist (generally) for trips 1+ month out.

[3rd&Brown]

On a completely random note, I just wanted to call out today that the city (well, multiple agencies) were under 95 clearing the encampments in Fishtown and Port Richmond. I noticed it when I went to get coffee at the Starbucks in Fishtown Crossing Shopping Center, and assumed it would get press of some sort with the inevitable hand wringing around wHaT aRe wE dOiNg for tHe ViCtIms.

So, rather than contribute to the conjecture, I decided to wade into the effort and talk to a city employee to ask all of the inevitable questions. Here is what I saw and what I was told.

The city agencies I saw onsite:
City Department of Health and Human Services
Police
Fire Department
Sanitation
Kensington Hospital Mobile Wound Clinic Truck
CLIP

What I was told.

PennDot started canvasing the site 2+ weeks ago posting notices that it would be cleared on this date. In addition, outreach workers were deployed from that date until today to proactively canvas the people living in the encampments to alert them to the coming action and to help get them into treatment (or shelters) in advance if possible.

It was explained everyone in the encampment was eligible to enter city shelter facilities if they were not using drugs or a treatment program if they were.

Today: Said agencies arrived to start the work. I knew something was up when I pulled under 95 on my way to the Starbucks and noticed workers wearing Orange Vests talking to some of the residents.

The person I talked to was with the Managing Directors office of the department of HHS for the city. She gave me that background and said that everyone on the site was councelled today on their options. For those who did not want to enter treatment or a shelter, the outreach workers helped them pack up their stuff (from what I saw, they were being very respectful...literally going through these folks "belongings" to help them sort through what they wanted to keep or leave behind). Anything that they kept was being packed up respectfully in whatever containers the people had (luggage, carts, etc).

For people who wanted to enter treatment or a shelter, the same was happening, but instead of packing it into carts or luggage, the outreach workers helped the individuals pack their stuff into self storage bins. Apparently, the city stores these bins in storage facillities at their own expense for the duration the individual is in treatment or a shelter so that the decision isn't dependent or influenced by the loss of their belongings.

Lastly, the site was being extensively cleaned. There were sanitation department employees on site with trash bags, pickers, blowers, and multiple dumpsters. There was even a backhoe on site to lift bigger things if needed (btw it was working overtime).

All and all, it was the first time in a long time I witnessed something and it felt good to be a taxpayer and thought the government was working well. Obviously, I have a vested interest as I live right there, but it felt as though the city was handling it in the most humane and organized way possible.

The entire area already looks a million times better.

[PHL10]

I know we've beat up this proposal pretty well but the historical committee is really killing it. I've seen many comically bad proposals but this one is toward the top. You know, between this one and the one proposed at the old Rite Aid at 23rd and Walnut, how can CC be getting these third world building designs but they can build with great design and materials in Fishtown and the like?

Proposed apartment building on Spruce Street may run afoul of historical preservation rules
A 24-unit apartment building proposed across the street from the Kimmel Center received a harsh critique from the committee that advises Philadelphia's Historical Commission.

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20231024.html

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

On a completely random note, I just wanted to call out today that the city (well, multiple agencies) were under 95 clearing the encampments in Fishtown and Port Richmond. I noticed it when I went to get coffee at the Starbucks in Fishtown Crossing Shopping Center, and assumed it would get press of some sort with the inevitable hand wringing around wHaT aRe wE dOiNg for tHe ViCtIms.

So, rather than contribute to the conjecture, I decided to wade into the effort and talk to a city employee to ask all of the inevitable questions. Here is what I saw and what I was told.

The city agencies I saw onsite:
City Department of Health and Human Services
Police
Fire Department
Sanitation
Kensington Hospital Mobile Wound Clinic Truck
CLIP

What I was told.

PennDot started canvasing the site 2+ weeks ago posting notices that it would be cleared on this date. In addition, outreach workers were deployed from that date until today to proactively canvas the people living in the encampments to alert them to the coming action and to help get them into treatment (or shelters) in advance if possible.

It was explained everyone in the encampment was eligible to enter city shelter facilities if they were not using drugs or a treatment program if they were.

Today: Said agencies arrived to start the work. I knew something was up when I pulled under 95 on my way to the Starbucks and noticed workers wearing Orange Vests talking to some of the residents.

The person I talked to was with the Managing Directors office of the department of HHS for the city. She gave me that background and said that everyone on the site was councelled today on their options. For those who did not want to enter treatment or a shelter, the outreach workers helped them pack up their stuff (from what I saw, they were being very respectful...literally going through these folks "belongings" to help them sort through what they wanted to keep or leave behind). Anything that they kept was being packed up respectfully in whatever containers the people had (luggage, carts, etc).

For people who wanted to enter treatment or a shelter, the same was happening, but instead of packing it into carts or luggage, the outreach workers helped the individuals pack their stuff into self storage bins. Apparently, the city stores these bins in storage facillities at their own expense for the duration the individual is in treatment or a shelter so that the decision isn't dependent or influenced by the loss of their belongings.

Lastly, the site was being extensively cleaned. There were sanitation department employees on site with trash bags, pickers, and multiple dumpsters. There was even a backhoe on site to lift bigger things if needed (btw it was working overtime).

All and all, it was the first time in a long time I witnessed something and it felt good to be a taxpayer and thought the government was working well. Obviously, I have a vested interest as I live right there, but it felt as though the city was handling it in the most humane and organized way possible.

The entire area already looks a million times better.

While it's nice to hear that it was cleared ethically, I think it demonstrates the ineptitude of PennDot. People will be back camping under there, shooting up and spreading litter everywhere by next week. How can PennDot not learn from their mistakes? Any highway underpass needs to be strictly parking or a fenced off hardscaped space. Anything else will become an encampment, especially one so close to the epicenter of opioid abuse in America. It was a nice thought that they could make a walking path and some landscaping but's it's incredibly naive. If anything maybe some basketball courts would be a better choice. Just remember PennDot is going to be renovating 95 southward throughout the entire city in the next 30 years...please take their surveys and tell them you don't want the highway widened and don't want spaces for camping.

survey: https://aecomviz.com/I95-CSP-360/

I mean look at these spaces they created...it's like they're encouraging camping. These streetview screengrabs don't show how bad it got. Last week I saw 20 tents and trash covering every square inch.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

On a completely random note, I just wanted to call out today that the city (well, multiple agencies) were under 95 clearing the encampments in Fishtown and Port Richmond. I noticed it when I went to get coffee at the Starbucks in Fishtown Crossing Shopping Center, and assumed it would get press of some sort with the inevitable hand wringing around wHaT aRe wE dOiNg for tHe ViCtIms.

So, rather than contribute to the conjecture, I decided to wade into the effort and talk to a city employee to ask all of the inevitable questions. Here is what I saw and what I was told.

The city agencies I saw onsite:
City Department of Health and Human Services
Police
Fire Department
Sanitation
Kensington Hospital Mobile Wound Clinic Truck
CLIP

What I was told.

PennDot started canvasing the site 2+ weeks ago posting notices that it would be cleared on this date. In addition, outreach workers were deployed from that date until today to proactively canvas the people living in the encampments to alert them to the coming action and to help get them into treatment (or shelters) in advance if possible.

It was explained everyone in the encampment was eligible to enter city shelter facilities if they were not using drugs or a treatment program if they were.

Today: Said agencies arrived to start the work. I knew something was up when I pulled under 95 on my way to the Starbucks and noticed workers wearing Orange Vests talking to some of the residents.

The person I talked to was with the Managing Directors office of the department of HHS for the city. She gave me that background and said that everyone on the site was councelled today on their options. For those who did not want to enter treatment or a shelter, the outreach workers helped them pack up their stuff (from what I saw, they were being very respectful...literally going through these folks "belongings" to help them sort through what they wanted to keep or leave behind). Anything that they kept was being packed up respectfully in whatever containers the people had (luggage, carts, etc).

For people who wanted to enter treatment or a shelter, the same was happening, but instead of packing it into carts or luggage, the outreach workers helped the individuals pack their stuff into self storage bins. Apparently, the city stores these bins in storage facillities at their own expense for the duration the individual is in treatment or a shelter so that the decision isn't dependent or influenced by the loss of their belongings.

Lastly, the site was being extensively cleaned. There were sanitation department employees on site with trash bags, pickers, and multiple dumpsters. There was even a backhoe on site to lift bigger things if needed (btw it was working overtime).

All and all, it was the first time in a long time I witnessed something and it felt good to be a taxpayer and thought the government was working well. Obviously, I have a vested interest as I live right there, but it felt as though the city was handling it in the most humane and organized way possible.

The entire area already looks a million times better.

Super great reporting on this.

I hope they are able to do well on "follow through." It's great that these encampments are addressed. But often, they just end up somewhere else until the coast is clear.

Honestly, it seems like they've done everything they could have in this instance.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

While it's nice to hear that it was cleared ethically, I think it demonstrates the ineptitude of PennDot. People will be back camping under there, shooting up and spreading litter everywhere by next week. How can PennDot not learn from their mistakes? Any highway underpass needs to be strictly parking or a fenced off hardscaped space. Anything else will become an encampment, especially one so close to the epicenter of opioid abuse in America. It was a nice thought that they could make a walking path and some landscaping but's it's incredibly naive. If anything maybe some basketball courts would be a better choice. Just remember PennDot is going to be renovating 95 southward throughout the entire city in the next 30 years...please take their surveys and tell them you don't want the highway widened and don't want spaces for camping.

survey: https://aecomviz.com/I95-CSP-360/

I mean look at these spaces they created...it's like they're encouraging camping. These streetview screengrabs don't show how bad it got. Last week I saw 20 tents and trash covering every square inch.

Of course people are going to come back. But if there is a periodic response like this one, then it might be contained to 20 or 30 people as opposed to 700 or a skid row situation.

I live here and I prefer the landscaping and paths to parking lots. BTW, there are also a bunch of parking lots. We can have both.

[badthingshappen]

A few years ago they cleared out a couple encampments and from what I remember they employed the same strategy of giving notice and offering outreach to those that accepted and then following through with clearing things out day of. No idea if it was handed the same way as described by 3rd&Brown then, but I'd guess the tactics have evolved somewhat.

I remember seeing workers clearing trees and brush out of the embankments, I guess it must have been north of Kensington Ave once the tracks are below street level rather than above, and thinking to myself that the more exposed space was probably less inviting afterwards. I also remember a large encampment under the Emerald St underpass that got cleared out. Haven't been through that tunnel in probably 2 years but looking at streetview now doesn't seem like it's come back. And it was bad in 2018. People are just gonna move elsewhere of course, it's inherent to the opioid problem, but something seems to have kept the same from happening in those places in the last 5 years.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by PHL10

I know we've beat up this proposal pretty well but the historical committee is really killing it. I've seen many comically bad proposals but this one is toward the top. You know, between this one and the one proposed at the old Rite Aid at 23rd and Walnut, how can CC be getting these third world building designs but they can build with great design and materials in Fishtown and the like?

Proposed apartment building on Spruce Street may run afoul of historical preservation rules
A 24-unit apartment building proposed across the street from the Kimmel Center received a harsh critique from the committee that advises Philadelphia's Historical Commission.

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20231024.html

Yea, that is bad. Looks like infill development in East Brunswick or Elizabeth.

Match the existing cornice, then a setback, and higher end finishes, and then it's good to go.
262 S. 16th Street got it right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9477...8192?entry=ttu

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Yea, that is bad. Looks like infill development in East Brunswick or Elizabeth.

Match the existing cornice, then a setback, and higher end finishes, and then it's good to go.
262 S. 16th Street got it right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9477...8192?entry=ttu

Agreed. There’s people on Twitter that are upset that this is being held up by the HC for a month or two lol.

[bonfire]

https://centercityphila.org/pressroom/a-plan-for-mse

I know this has been said on the forum a lot but the city really needs to connect center city and old city. Market St is not looking too great nowadays! Nice to see this press release about tangible steps they will take and hopefully implement soon. The impact studies were interesting to look through and is encouraging that the rail park is still being considered in some sort of master plan for the city.

[yuryphilly]

Originally Posted by bonfire

https://centercityphila.org/pressroom/a-plan-for-mse

I know this has been said on the forum a lot but the city really needs to connect center city and old city. Market St is not looking too great nowadays! Nice to see this press release about tangible steps they will take and hopefully implement soon. The impact studies were interesting to look through and is encouraging that the rail park is still being considered in some sort of master plan for the city.

Step one - partner with the owner of the Dinsey hole parking lot and persuade them to sell and develop it into a mixed-used building similar to Market and 12th street. It will be more likely that there will be another hospital building eventually.

Next, redevelop the rest of the sketchy buildings west of it.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by yuryphilly

Step one - partner with the owner of the Dinsey hole parking lot and persuade them to sell and develop it into a mixed-used building similar to Market and 12th street. It will be more likely that there will be another hospital building eventually.

Next, redevelop the rest of the sketchy buildings west of it.

Oh if they make the Dis Hole a medical building, imma freak out.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by yuryphilly

Step one - partner with the owner of the Dinsey hole parking lot and persuade them to sell and develop it into a mixed-used building similar to Market and 12th street. It will be more likely that there will be another hospital building eventually.

Next, redevelop the rest of the sketchy buildings west of it.

Goldenberg Group owns the Disney hole and they are focused on developing a tower at Broad & Lombard. It would be in their best interest to sell. A JW Marriott or similar would look snazzy on that plot.

And I'm surprised the Owner of those shabby buildings on the 1000 block of Market is still trying to find retail tenants. Just knock it all down!

[Mikieman]

Everyone will be happy to hear that there were once again workers at the Target Site in University City this morning.