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  #1  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:12 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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there are plenty of cities on earth with huge skylines that are miserable and dispiriting places to live. there are others with enormous amounts of wealth that make daily existence untenable for your average middle class person. im much more interested in the quality of life your average resident has in any given city. shouldnt that be the barometer we hold ourselves to? whether we have the biggest collection of piles of steel or not dosent affect my day to day life. and gloating about wealth stratification/inequality is kind of a weird flex.
This.

Even if Chicago caught up to New York in terms of number of supertalls and population..... You aren't going to suddenly move the needle for anyone in either of these cities. Folks who love Chicago.... Will always love Chicago. Same goes for New Yorkers. Why? Because NYC is a completely different animal than Chicago. That's a good thing! I love cities that stand apart with their own unique identity. That's what makes a city interesting.

When I was in Europe last Fall, It was so fun to experience London, Paris, and Madrid. Only because each city had a completely different feel to it. Chicago shouldn't obsess about trying to be NYC. Chicago should obsess about being a better Chicago.

Remember guys:

"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men’s blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistency. Remember that our sons and grandsons are going to do things that would stagger us. Let your watchword be order and your beacon beauty. Think big."
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  #2  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:22 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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You can't talk about skyscrapers without talking about egos. Egos are very much a part of this business. And so the egos of two cities will inevitably clash when both have a culture of building these structures, like it or hate it.

It's like Megatron and Starscream. NYC is the "superior" city and Chicago will always be jealous. Not because there is anything wrong with Chicago. But because New York exists, and Chicago will ALWAYS have an ego and can't stand it.

It's just the way it is, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:32 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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^ the most egotistical people are those who don't give a shit about anyone else and think only of themselves.

But Jan Brady doesn't have much of an ego of her own. She allows herself to be defined by who she is NOT, and that's actually really fucking sad and pathetic.



Grow a fucking pair of balls, Jan, and be your own person!
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  #4  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:47 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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there are plenty of cities on earth with huge skylines that are miserable and dispiriting places to live. there are others with enormous amounts of wealth that make daily existence untenable for your average middle class person. im much more interested in the quality of life your average resident has in any given city. shouldnt that be the barometer we hold ourselves to? whether we have the biggest collection of piles of steel or not dosent affect my day to day life. and gloating about wealth stratification/inequality is kind of a weird flex.
Mostly agree. Hong Kong actually fits this - it ranks near the top of high rises/skyscrapers of any city in the world. It also has the most millionaires of any city in the world. Simply put though, it was the most depressing "first world" city I've ever been to. It's not all shiny like everyone thinks - pretty dirty actually in many spots - and many of the smaller buildings are falling apart or look like they are in some neighborhoods. A lot of the buildings are pretty depressing concrete blocks actually. Unless you make a lot of money, it's not that great of a place to live unless you are content with pretty small living spaces (some people live in 70 sq ft "apartments" without any windows and barely any air flow). There's a lot of living situations there which are definitely less than ideal.


Once upon a time, I used to be all about extreme height but these days, I think I've grown out of it as of a handful of years ago. I like height but very high density levels and great urbanity is easily achievable at the 6-8+ story level on a consistent basis. I think actually there's some great examples of this in Chicago in the last few years (maybe the 4-8 story level). As TUP mentioned, "Chicago" needs to focus on filling in the gaps and making an even more cohesive environment between neighborhoods. The north side is great, for the most part (the industrial areas where LY is for example is another story) and parts of other areas but - well...there's a lot of opportunity in the city to improve this IMO.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 9:27 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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By the way going back to before regarding Fortune 500 HQ. This is the count for the 2021 version by MSA:

1. NYC: 64 HQ
2. Chicago: 35
3. Houston: 23
4. Dallas: 21
5T. SF: 18
5T. San Jose: 18
7T. Atlanta: 17
7T. DC: 17
9. Minneapolis: 16
10. Boston: 15
11. Philadelphia: 14
12T. Denver: 11
12T. Los Angeles: 11
14T. Bridgeport, CT: 10
14T. Detroit: 10
14T. Miami: 10
17. Pittsburgh: 9
18T. Phoenix: 8
18T. Seattle: 8
18T. St. Louis: 8
21T. Charlotte: 7
21T. Cincinnati: 7
21T. Richmond: 7
24T. Milwaukee: 6
24T. Providence: 6


If you add up San Jose and San Francisco then they have 1 more than Chicago - basically even there between the 2 places in terms of number of Fortune 500 HQ.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 10:49 PM
Chisouthside Chisouthside is offline
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I think basically what it comes down to is what would you prefer. A couple more supertalls in this cycle vs the boom /transformation in West Loop as it syphons demand from downtown and other infill. I personally prefer the development going on versus potentially having a few more supertalls
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 8:30 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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City and MSA employment data came out a few days ago for December 2021. The city's number of employed persons for December 2021 was higher than any December back to 1990 except for December 1999 and December 2000 which were each slightly higher. It was slightly higher than December 2019 right before the pandemic and lockdowns. It was even a little higher than July 2019 and right under June 2019.

This is for not seasonally adjusted, for the record.
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 9:08 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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Newest marketing campaign

Video Link
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2022, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Newest marketing campaign

]
So cringe worthy I couldn't even finish watching it. So bad the comment section in youtube has been turned off.

Choose Chicago should take the lead here. But their budget keeps getting gutted. Chicago needs 5-10x's as much more money to move the needle esp with the international set.
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 9:30 PM
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too clever by half imo.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 11:19 PM
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It's interesting but it also feels a little "cheap"
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 11:17 PM
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That video is a little cringe, but some of the posters are pretty neat.

https://chicagonotinchicago.com/#contributions-section


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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2022, 11:48 PM
ChiMIchael ChiMIchael is offline
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I don’t like the name dropping route. Forcing adjacency to certain cities won't make Chicago like them. A better angle is how Chicago contributed to make the US a world power.
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2022, 12:15 AM
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Focusing on how important Chicago was 100+ years ago is stupid and diminishing. Also no one from, say, Brazil is going to visit Chicago because spray paint was invented here (wtf?)

Give people in 2022 a reason to want to see and experience Chicago.

A good case can be made that Chicago is “The American City”. Big shoulders, wide streets, brash and original. The most successful boomtown after America was no longer so influenced by Europe. That can get people interested, especially foreign tourists who don’t care that some of the first soap operas were here (again, wtf?)

This is absolutely terrible. A perfectly shallow failure to represent our one-term mayor.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2022, 1:15 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Focusing on how important Chicago was 100+ years ago is stupid and diminishing. Also no one from, say, Brazil is going to visit Chicago because spray paint was invented here (wtf?)

Give people in 2022 a reason to want to see and experience Chicago.

A good case can be made that Chicago is “The American City”. Big shoulders, wide streets, brash and original. The most successful boomtown after America was no longer so influenced by Europe. That can get people interested, especially foreign tourists who don’t care that some of the first soap operas were here (again, wtf?)

This is absolutely terrible. A perfectly shallow failure to represent our one-term mayor.
Interesting

I think this campaign has enough of a sense of humor to it that it wouldn’t be taken seriously

But I have long felt that Chicago just markets itself so poorly that it’s criminal. Just being a place that people from Michigan and Iowa visit to take in some cool skyscrapers………Goddamn, come on man. Really?!!

Everyone knows that there is way the hell more going on here. Why can’t anyone finally get this point across?
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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2022, 4:57 AM
galleyfox galleyfox is online now
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Interesting

I think this campaign has enough of a sense of humor to it that it wouldn’t be taken seriously

But I have long felt that Chicago just markets itself so poorly that it’s criminal. Just being a place that people from Michigan and Iowa visit to take in some cool skyscrapers………Goddamn, come on man. Really?!!

Everyone knows that there is way the hell more going on here. Why can’t anyone finally get this point across?
That question has been asked by Chicagoans since the city was founded. And I mean verbatim.

Quote:
Necessarily, when the adherents of two cities start an argument, they are confined to concrete points. They talk about opera and theatres and buildings and hotels and stores, and seldom touch upon such subtle things as city spirit. For spirit is a hard thing to deal with and a harder thing to prove. Yet “greatness knows itself.” Chicago unquestionably knows that it is great, and that its greatness is of the spirit. But the Chicagoan, debating in favor of his city, is unable to “get that over,” and is therefore obliged to fall back upon two last, invariable defenses: the department store or Marshall Field & Co. and the Blackstone Hotel.

Julian Street, Abroad at Home, 1914
There’s no real answer because the world has been interested in Chicago for its moral deviancy and extreme contrasts from the very beginning. It’s the reason Chicago is culturally famous.

We’re talking pre-Civil War before the fire, and Chicago is only a twenty-year-old city, and there were already a flurry of articles about “two Chicagos” and “terrible divides.”

There are interviews from the 1800s with Chicagoans, where they become distressed and frustrated with reporters, because all visitors want to do is go to the stockyards to watch the slaughter or meet a gangster. People who visited would rave about the amazing architecture and great restaurants and food, and still insist on the blood and guts and crime.

Portland and Austin can do a little bit of advertising and a “Keep City Weird” slogan and run with it, but Chicago has an unrelenting history to deal with and marketing doesn’t really make a dent.

And compared to other U.S. cities, there’s an amazing, tumultuous and thought-provoking history that occasionally comes across in media, but it’s hard to turn that into a tourist activity.

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To describe Chicago, one would need all the superlatives set in a row. Grandest, flattest,—muddiest, dustiest,—hottest, coldest,—wettest, driest,—farthest north, south, east, and west from other places, consequently most central,—best harbor on Lake Michigan, worst harbor and smallest river any great commercial city ever lived on,—most elegant in architecture, meanest in hovel-propping,—wildest in speculation, solidest in value,—proudest in self-esteem, loudest in self-disparagement,—most lavish, most grasping,—most public-spirited in some things, blindest and darkest on some points of highest interest.

And some poor souls would doubtless add,—most fascinating, or most desolate,—according as one goes there, gay and hopeful, to find troops of prosperous friends, or, lonely and poor, with the distant hope of bettering broken fortunes by struggling among the driving thousands already there on the same errand. There is, perhaps, no place in the world where it is more necessary to take a bright and hopeful view of life, and none where this is more difficult.

Atlantic Monthly, Illinois in Springtime: with a Look at Chicago, 1858

Last edited by galleyfox; Feb 5, 2022 at 7:20 AM.
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2022, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
That question has been asked by Chicagoans since the city was founded. And I mean verbatim.



There’s no real answer because the world has been interested in Chicago for its moral deviancy and extreme contrasts from the very beginning. It’s the reason Chicago is culturally famous.

We’re talking pre-Civil War before the fire, and Chicago is only a twenty-year-old city, and there were already a flurry of articles about “two Chicagos” and “terrible divides.”

There are interviews from the 1800s with Chicagoans, where they become distressed and frustrated with reporters, because all visitors want to do is go to the stockyards to watch the slaughter or meet a gangster. People who visited would rave about the amazing architecture and great restaurants and food, and still insist on the blood and guts and crime.

Portland and Austin can do a little bit of advertising and a “Keep City Weird” slogan and run with it, but Chicago has an unrelenting history to deal with and marketing doesn’t really make a dent.

And compared to other U.S. cities, there’s an amazing, tumultuous and thought-provoking history that occasionally comes across in media, but it’s hard to turn that into a tourist activity.
Great stuff here
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2022, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
But I have long felt that Chicago just markets itself so poorly that it’s criminal. Just being a place that people from Michigan and Iowa visit to take in some cool skyscrapers………Goddamn, come on man. Really?!!

Everyone knows that there is way the hell more going on here. Why can’t anyone finally get this point across?
I don't think this is a marketing problem really. We need to deliver on things like affordable housing and crime reduction, and then we can lean into the "gangster city" image (which is iconic/distinctive in its own way) once it no longer reflects a sad reality. Not sure we can shed that image any more than we can improve the weather.

The city has a tremendously diversified economy but no particular calling-card industries. People will move here for jobs, dreamers will go somewhere else. It's not something we can really change; leaders just have to keep the wheels churning and not let things like crime or budgetary issues sink the ship.

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Atlanta leaders worked hard to shake their southern racist past to become one of the most tolerant cities in the nation. The city continues to attract and grow at a rapid rate due to this new image. The city still has major problems but it has benefited greatly from its new image.
Atlanta succeeded because it offered tangible benefits to lure people and businesses - affordable housing, good jobs, decent weather, natural beauty, arguably the US' best air connections. Any kind of civic branding is just a gloss that doesn't move the needle much in isolation.
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Old Posted Feb 7, 2022, 8:23 PM
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I don't think this is a marketing problem really. We need to deliver on things like affordable housing and crime reduction, and then we can lean into the "gangster city" image (which is iconic/distinctive in its own way) once it no longer reflects a sad reality..
Yeah..no I really don't think that's gonna work, considering it's already a toxic, unsustainable and dead-end lifestyle, with nothing but misery and tragedy in its wake. Why even feel a need to 'lean into' something that so many people in so many neighborhoods are trying to get away from, that has directly lead to so much strife in the same neighborhoods, not to mention carry-over issues throughout the larger city?

The fucked-up mass media glorification of violent gang lifestyles is appalling, frankly, and one that I really don't think needs to be sanitized any further. Best to move away from that minefield.
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  #20  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:40 PM
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Atlanta succeeded because it offered tangible benefits to lure people and businesses - affordable housing, good jobs, decent weather, natural beauty, arguably the US' best air connections. Any kind of civic branding is just a gloss that doesn't move the needle much in isolation.
I agree with your assessment, but an effort to shine the spotlight on its assets which included rebranding its image helped in boosting its success today. That entire region is not without flaws but it works together better than our region does.
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