Canadian City Proposals II

[WhipperSnapper]

Zoning in Toronto suburbia is an effect of development proposals preference of compartmentalized single use clusters. It's not the cause for the shape and design of subdivisions. The average residential subdivision was developed by one developer or a consortium of developers as part of a larger master plan that included the residential areas , the community areas and any community related spaces. Planning either accepted or rejected it. The 905 or the post war Toronto boroughs wouldn't look any different in a zoning based multi-verse.

All things considered, restrictive residential zoning has not stopped business activities, real or fake, to operate in these neighbourhoods. I feel technology and buying trends has created an opportunity for small business to take control over contained retail units. The major obstacle is start up costs. $15 billion would go a lot further here than $15 billion to accelerate housing starts in a commoditized housing market. There will be defaults. So too will there be in this housing strategy.

I rented my first place in 1995 and there was a fraction of rental housing availability as there is now. I was fortunate to have insider connections with advanced knowledge otherwise I would have ended up like so many other renters in death trap, cobbled together basements (apartments). Toronto doesn't have a shortage of available housing units compared to much of the 1980s and 1990s or the East Coast of Canada today.

[MonkeyRonin]

TOD proposal for the future Gerrard-Carlaw station (on the Ontario Line) in Toronto. Generally not a fan of these types of master planned high-rise "islands", but I think it works here. Probably just placeholder designs, but I'd be happy if it turned out something like this - heavy on the brick, rational forms, minimal balconies & spandrel:









https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2024/01...-station.55111

[niwell]

Not everywhere can be a destination and it would be good if more acknowledge that, but not sure density has to be all that high to support local amenities. Heavy emphasis on the local. I'd still consider somewhere like Oakwood Village in Toronto to be a relatively walkable urban area, but it really isn't attracting people from elsewhere. That should be more of an aspiration - not the next Ossington. You aren't going to do everything locally, but it should be an option for at least some things. Even businesses on Roncesvalles and the western portion of Parkdale are primarily patroned by local residents, though there are certainly exceptions (I know several business-owners in the area).

Of course there are a lot of economic reasons it's very difficult to recreate this model in suburban Oakville (or wherever). The best we can reasonably hope for is something more self-contained at the end of the day.

One thing that's always puzzled me about these new developments incorporating retail though is why there's almost never a bar/pub (even a chain Firkin) anywhere nearby aside from bigger restaurants in big-box areas. Older Ontario suburbia has lots of them and they seem much more common in Calgary suburbia. I can see why given the ethnic makeup of some suburbs but Oakville seems like an easy market. This is the only one I could find in Uptown Oakville: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fDPbD2ZnCywSRiTu9

[WhipperSnapper]

To add in consideration of the hero/villain labels given to the small business / multi-national conglomerate relationship.

Small business merchandise has homogenized with chain stores. I find the majority buy and sell similar factory made goods from a catalog albeit at higher prices. The ones that still design are likely to have the merchandised manufactured overseas. Even fewer in Toronto design/build and sell under the same roof.

[WhipperSnapper]

Densities tend to be overblown. Is a 1000 more units in a mediocre residential tower development with minimal commercial and zero community benefits really going to enhance a community?

A 1990s, 905 subdivision is extremely limited on multi-family housing options. Still, the residential densities can't be that different from a streetcar suburb in East End Toronto. A post 2000, 905 subidivision will have multi-family options increasing densities. With that said, Covid and increasing commercial property taxes has severely impacted neighbourhood high streets at least in this region of Toronto. I agree that small business that buys and sell without a design and manufacturing element is going to struggle and ulimately close in the post covid era. However, the post covid era is ideal for a boom in small design and manufacturing operations behind a retail store supplementing an online presence

[SteelTown]

If no major changes, this will be Hamilton's new tallest. Located right next to First Ontario Centre.

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

(Originally posed on UT by user Branden Simon)

"Market Street Residents - A proposed 43 and 44-Storey condo residential building with 1,045 units develop by LEV Living. Located on 118 Market Street currently the site of a Retirement building in Hamilton’s Downtown area."

This Proposal of 43/44-Storey Building hasn’t summit to City of Hamilton development applications or formal consultation





More details about this project
https://www.levliving.com/community/...reet-residence

[Coldrsx]

This looks very promising for for Victoria - approved.
--

The Roundhouse project in Vic West, which has been in the works for more than 15 years, will get a chance to deliver its promised 1,870 residential units and commercial space after Victoria council approved rezoning and amendments to the official community plan at a public hearing Thursday night.

While a number of councillors expressed misgivings with the proposal, noting it was far from perfect, council ultimately voted 7-2 in favour of third reading of the bylaw amendments.

The bylaws will be adopted at a later date, after concerns about the impact of the height of the development may have on the Inner Harbour airport have been addressed in consultation with Transport Canada.

Only councillors Stephen Hammond and Marg Gardiner voted against.

The approval means proponent Focus Equities will have the zoning it needs to move forward with a project that envisions nine buildings ranging in height from 10 to 32 storeys at 251 Esquimalt Rd., 210 Kimta Rd. and 355 Catherine St.

The project anticipates 1,870 residential units, including 215 units deemed affordable, 70,000 square feet of commercial space and the remediation and renovation of existing heritage buildings on the site.


https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...roject-8165779

[rdaner]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

This looks very promising for for Victoria - approved.
--

The Roundhouse project in Vic West, which has been in the works for more than 15 years, will get a chance to deliver its promised 1,870 residential units and commercial space after Victoria council approved rezoning and amendments to the official community plan at a public hearing Thursday night.

While a number of councillors expressed misgivings with the proposal, noting it was far from perfect, council ultimately voted 7-2 in favour of third reading of the bylaw amendments.

The bylaws will be adopted at a later date, after concerns about the impact of the height of the development may have on the Inner Harbour airport have been addressed in consultation with Transport Canada.

Only councillors Stephen Hammond and Marg Gardiner voted against.

The approval means proponent Focus Equities will have the zoning it needs to move forward with a project that envisions nine buildings ranging in height from 10 to 32 storeys at 251 Esquimalt Rd., 210 Kimta Rd. and 355 Catherine St.

The project anticipates 1,870 residential units, including 215 units deemed affordable, 70,000 square feet of commercial space and the remediation and renovation of existing heritage buildings on the site.


https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...roject-8165779

This looks fairly close to downtown. Is it walkable?

[ericmacm]

Love it. I'm happy to see a project this size get approved for a city like Victoria. Hopefully they can get started on it in the near future.

[urbandreamer]

Garbage. But then Vic West is a crappy masterplanned bore. Inappropriate scale, dull architecture and suburban integration at grade.

At minimum, red brick warehouse style buildings inspired by what's going up in smaller UK/European cities.

[zoomer]

It’s very walkable - the Songhees/Vic West neighbourhood is directly connected to downtown by the Johnson Street Bridge. It’s a popular walking neighbourhood - I used to cross the bridge and walk along the waterfront there during my lunch breaks. Also a very interesting neighbourhood with lots of unique sights and sites, I’ll share more tomorrow. Couple of my pics for now:

[IMG]Johnson Street Bridge - Sunday May 7, 2023. by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]Downtown Victoria BC, October 3, 2023. 2:07 p.m. by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr[/IMG]

[WhipperSnapper]

I don't see any intent with a street bisected block plan for lack of a better description. No point to comment on boring oversized tower blocks. There's one too many towers proposed . One less tower would provide more spacing. The tallest, pointiest tower in the right hand side cluster removed with some tweaking to the placement of the others would fulfill the design intent better than the current plan

[zoomer]

Yes, the towers are all thoughtfully placed except for the side by side one which then block the view for the tower in behind. Important to keep in mind that while the developers have built a couple of tower, this whole process has been going on for a couple of decades with countless revisions. I’d be shocked if this is the final iteration, it feels more like their way of locking in approval for the heights/density. I’m not even going to comment on the potential design as these are massing renderings, not design - but don’t expect all glass towers like you might see in Yaletown or the Toronto waterfront. As for a street grid, the pics below will probably show why that doesn’t make sense here.

Apple Maps - Songhees by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

The buildings in the middle on a rise are what has been built the past couple decade, to the left you can see most of the development site which is situated around a historic train roundhouse which will be restored and incorporated into the development. Also in the pic above on the top right side you can see the continued development of Dockside Green adjacent to the Point Hope Shipyard.

A pic of mine:

Songhees neighbourhood, Victoria BC. March 25, 2023 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

Some additional sketches of the design concepts:





From Bayviewplace.com

[niwell]

^having lived in the area in the past for a number of years I’d say that works fairly well. I just hope it replaces the amenities being removed. Tons of small businesses in the existing building

[urbandreamer]

One thing that's becoming apparent as I explore Toronto and its suburbs by car is how the truly wealthy live in quiet, isolated pockets while profiting off this marketing push for smaller less private spaces for the middle classes. Vic West is an example of turning undesirable land into a sink for the wealthy, who in turn live in Oak Bay, Maple Bay etc.

I would advocate for a six storey height limit, wood frame construction and strict control of street-facing materials (brick and colorful stucco), facade and landscape design. There should be a natural rhythm and variety, say a minimum of 5 facade designs per block. Yes, wood frame buildings can be built quicker for cheaper. Buildings should return to the 15/30/45'x 80/100' lot size of old, avoid masterplanned laziness and encourage individuals to build their own using an approved catalog of facade designs. Essentially, Vic West should look like old downtown Victoria not Langford. Under ideal conditions, facades could be built in an assembly line indoors, brought to the site by truck and hung in place by small mobile cranes, if hand laid brick is too expensive.

Yes, Vic West, like Langford is walkable. But as I walked across the Johnson Street Bridge on 1st July 2022, it felt hostile and unwelcoming. And what exactly was so interesting about the large generic condo tower neighborhood? There wasn't even the charm of say downtown Nanaimo to look forward to. So I did my loop and GTFO.

[WhipperSnapper]

The Toronto TOD is a tale of two blocks. One block is uncharacteristically considerate of its surroundings and interesting while the other is overpowering and boring. Overcompensating to create the sensitive block is a strong argument that would be popular on Urbantoronto. I'd rather have two considerate, interesting blocks even if it meant fewer units and a lower land/sale value. The overall neighbourhood wasn't planned for a large influx of units in these few blocks nor is this vision independently self sufficient.

And, of course, the organically developed incubators currently housed in these buildings will be lost forever.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

One thing that's becoming apparent as I explore Toronto and its suburbs by car is how the truly wealthy live in quiet, isolated pockets while profiting off this marketing push for smaller less private spaces for the middle classes. Vic West is an example of turning undesirable land into a sink for the wealthy, who in turn live in Oak Bay, Maple Bay etc.

I don't oppose as of right multi-family zoning for certain single family lots. I can't help but ponder the Ford's government broad, all encompassing push for this and I always end up concluding that having this option will improve single family homes as an investment for large institutions. More funds and trust owning homes and less home ownership. Right now, home ownership is key to the wealth of the middle class.

[MonkeyRonin]

Another Ontario Line TOD, this one in Thorncliffe: https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2024/01...-station.55125

[WhipperSnapper]

Welcome to Toronto where 56 storeys is the new 15 storeys.

I think this site is currently a Costco, parking. Can't remember if the two 8 storey senior blocks are on this side of Overlea or on this side of Don Mills Road.

One of the fastest growing communities in Canada is represented here. They may actually appreciate the 56 storeys as much as the owner of the blocks.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Welcome to Toronto where 56 storeys is the new 15 storeys.

The same can be said of Surrey, Coquitlam, and especially Burnaby. It's getting hard to keep track of all the 50-60+ storey proposals these days.