HARRISBURG-LANCASTER-LEBANON-YORK | South Central, PA | Regional Development Thread

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

There's multiple Bass Pros in HBG?

No, I was referring to the Target, El Rodeo, Ruby Tuesdays, etc., etc., that are around the HBG Mall. You can literally drive two very short exits down on 83 to UD Rd. and then Colonial Park and literally hit the same exact crap. IMO the HBG area missed the boat yet again, as the area around the HBG Mall could've brought in stores that are unique to the area, which in turn would've increased the draw tenfold. The area always shoots itself in the foot because the stores are too close, and people flock to the new thing simply because it is new even though it is the same junk. Then the old thing slowly dies out...

danwxman, sorry, but I'm not impressed at all. Sure those stores are better than nothing and some growth at the mall is better than none, but as I always say, the HBG area is completely saturated w/ movie theatres. A B&N is cool on the East Shore, but the one in Camp Hill is pretty darn close...

My point is that I always felt the area is far too small and compact to have so much the same, so close...let's get some diversity here, people!

[PaSkyX]

It really is true - everything around the HBG Mall in the exact same as what you'll find on Jonestown Rd. Though, I am sorta excited about the B&N - and for what it's worth, I really hate the small craptastic one that's on the west shore. It's really a pathetic excuse for a B&N. HBG really does need something decent though, I mean lets compare: Reading has a Trader Joes (ok, not that big of a deal... but it's Reading...) and Lancaster has an H&M. You really have to ask yourself just WHY Harrisburg is behind on just about everything. More importantly, for a city that is only 3 hrs 15 min on a train from NYC, why does it feel SOOO backwards?

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

It really is true - everything around the HBG Mall in the exact same as what you'll find on Jonestown Rd. Though, I am sorta excited about the B&N - and for what it's worth, I really hate the small craptastic one that's on the west shore. It's really a pathetic excuse for a B&N. HBG really does need something decent though, I mean lets compare: Reading has a Trader Joes (ok, not that big of a deal... but it's Reading...) and Lancaster has an H&M. You really have to ask yourself just WHY Harrisburg is behind on just about everything. More importantly, for a city that is only 3 hrs 15 min on a train from NYC, why does it feel SOOO backwards?

What the??? There are no Trader Joes anywhere close to Reading. The closest is Wayne.
http://www.traderjoes.com/Attachments/all_locations.pdf

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

It really is true - everything around the HBG Mall in the exact same as what you'll find on Jonestown Rd. Though, I am sorta excited about the B&N - and for what it's worth, I really hate the small craptastic one that's on the west shore. It's really a pathetic excuse for a B&N. HBG really does need something decent though, I mean lets compare: Reading has a Trader Joes (ok, not that big of a deal... but it's Reading...) and Lancaster has an H&M. You really have to ask yourself just WHY Harrisburg is behind on just about everything. More importantly, for a city that is only 3 hrs 15 min on a train from NYC, why does it feel SOOO backwards?

I think it's coming. Remember, the area just got a massive Wegmans in Mechanicsburg. Top of the line store that from what I understand has beat all the sales expectations. In the same shopping center you have a bunch of chains that are brand new to the area (Ulta, zpizza, Cuppy's Coffee, Cheeburger Cheeburger). I know nothing earth-shattering, but it's something...

[MidtownMike]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

I mean lets compare: Reading has a Trader Joes (ok, not that big of a deal... but it's Reading...) and Lancaster has an H&M. You really have to ask yourself just WHY Harrisburg is behind on just about everything.

Because Harrisburg is a "C" market in the eyes of these retailers with no adjacency to a major market. Lancaster and Reading are adjacent to Philadelphia, so they'll get some of these stores (H&M and Trader Joe's). Harrisburg usually doesn't appear on the map of major national retailers until those retailers have exhausted their resources in larger markets.

Harrisburg-Carlisle is the 94th ranked MSA in the country. If you throw in Lebanon, we're 74th. What that often means is that there are probably 60-75 markets that get a look from these retailers before they turn their eyes toward ours. Just the way it is.

Nothing backwards about it. It's economics...

[Young Gun]

Originally Posted by Spudmrg

Cabela's (55 miles away, Tilden Township, PA) is another case, so I would'nt blame this one on the midstate being shortsighted (which is another matter entirely).

Young Gun, which warehouses are they converting? I thought the entire area around market street and cameroon was in an active flood plane. That would make me think long and hard about moving in, federal flood insurance or not.

It is on the block between 9th and 10th street I believe. I can't remember at the moment, but I can point it out to you. I'll take a pic when I get a chance. Need to figure out how to post one of those google maps

[MidtownMike]

Originally Posted by Young Gun

It is on the block between 9th and 10th street I believe. I can't remember at the moment, but I can point it out to you. I'll take a pic when I get a chance. Need to figure out how to post one of those google maps

It's right next to Pavone (advertising agency)...Pavone occupies what used to be a Dauphin Deposit bank branch.

Things seem to have slowed there for now. They were removing all kinds of debris using large dumpsters over the late summer, but seems to be inactivity at the moment.

[MidtownMike]

Oh, and here's the website for those lofts/condos:


http://www.marketstlofts.com/

[crs921]

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Two Harrisburg-based companies are teaming up to build and operate a hotel at State and North Second streets downtown.

Project developer WCI Partners on Tuesday said Hersha Development Corp. will become the operating partner.

The 100,000-square-foot, 14-story hotel, which will include space for retail stores and a restaurant, is scheduled to open in 2009. Workers are preparing the site so construction can begin next year.

"It was imperative to secure a well-respected and accomplished developer and operator before moving forward with construction," said J. Alex Hartzler, president of WCI Partners.

He called Hersha, a nationally respected hotel owner, developer and operator, a natural fit.

The hotel will bear the Aloft W Hotels brand, a division of Starwood Hotels and Resorts that offers stylishly furnished, ultra-modern hotels with the finest accommodations and wireless technology, Hartzler said.

[Young Gun]

Originally Posted by crs921

Where was that published? Would they build it already? I want to refinance my house and it should really help the property value.

[crs921]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Young Gun]

Midstate a mecca for relocating singles

Commutes are easy here. Jobs are bountiful. Tax rates are reasonable, and so are rents.

That makes the midstate one of America’s most attractive areas for singles choosing a new place to live, a new survey says

Researchers from Primacy Relocation and Worldwide ERC, along with Bert Sperling’s BestPlaces.net, ranked Harrisburg/Carlisle sixth among the largest 100 U.S. metropolitan areas in features likely to help singles make a successful transplant....

The survey, in its fourth year, showed the Harrisburg area moving up from 11th the last two years and 23rd in 2004. The only other Pennsylvania areas in the top 25 this year were Pittsburgh at 25 and Philadelphia at 13

Full article

Take that Philly!!! Apparently inexpensive is attractive to people with not a lot of money.

[crs921]

ANYONE KNOW WHAT FLOOR THIS IS UP TO AS OF TODAY? IT IS HARD TO TELL FROM THIS VIEW.....

THANKS.

[Young Gun]

[QUOTE=crs921;3141843]ANYONE KNOW WHAT FLOOR THIS IS UP TO AS OF TODAY? IT IS HARD TO TELL FROM THIS VIEW.....

THANKS.

I think it is about 7 stories at the moment. I'll check.

[crs921]

Thanks - and if you happen to have your camera and can get some shots from the street level looking upward at the construction - that would be nice.

[Young Gun]

Originally Posted by crs921

Thanks - and if you happen to have your camera and can get some shots from the street level looking upward at the construction - that would be nice.

Probably not till tomorrow morning, or if the lights on the site are good enough I can get some this evening as well, might make for a cool looking shot. Gotta stop by the rents and pick up my basement window I was working on.

[Wheelingman04]

Nice photo updates.

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by MidtownMike

Because Harrisburg is a "C" market in the eyes of these retailers with no adjacency to a major market. Lancaster and Reading are adjacent to Philadelphia, so they'll get some of these stores (H&M and Trader Joe's). Harrisburg usually doesn't appear on the map of major national retailers until those retailers have exhausted their resources in larger markets.

Harrisburg-Carlisle is the 94th ranked MSA in the country. If you throw in Lebanon, we're 74th. What that often means is that there are probably 60-75 markets that get a look from these retailers before they turn their eyes toward ours. Just the way it is.

Nothing backwards about it. It's economics...

economics is right...but i think it favors HBG to a point. the HBG CSA is over 660,000 and includes Lebanon... and it's media market at over 1.7 million makes it the 41st largest in the nation, out pacing cities like Buffalo, Hartford, and Richmond. i moved away from the area a few years ago and i can definatley tell you that the cities and regions of Reading, Scranton/WB and Allentown all maintain slower growth when compared to Harrisburg. i visit Reading and the Lehigh Valley pretty often and i'm just amazed at Harrisburg's development pace. there really is no comparison. HBG's downtown would be compared to central business district of a city more than 10 times its size.

another thing...just look at the traffic congestion in the region. i was working in northern VA for a short time and often passed through HBG on my way back to Pottsville. i couldn't believe the amount of traffic on 83...even at 8, 9 at night. and the view from the south bridge at night is very cool. outside of Philly or Pittsburgh, you won't find any downtown in PA as developed as HBG's. forget your big box stores....a thriving DT is a great indicator that of a thriving regional economy.

[Young Gun]

Originally Posted by wrightchr

another thing...just look at the traffic congestion in the region. i was working in northern VA for a short time and often passed through HBG on my way back to Pottsville. i couldn't believe the amount of traffic on 83...even at 8, 9 at night. and the view from the south bridge at night is very cool. outside of Philly or Pittsburgh, you won't find any downtown in PA as developed as HBG's. forget your big box stores....a thriving DT is a great indicator that of a thriving regional economy.

Harrisburg is deceptive. It is listed of a city of 45k, but acts as a city many times that size. In reality many of the towns around Harrisburg, Paxtang, Paxton, among some really should be part of the city limits. If you add their population into the city it really does act its size. Harrisburg has the nicest CBD of any town its size that I have seen. 83 is just insane, because it is the main artery from the south from the Baltimore, Washington craziness to the 76, 81,78 arteries heading to NYC, Philly, Pitts, and Upstate NYC. Harrisburg is blessed and cursed by this.

In the fall it is not atypical for traffic in Harrisburg to come to a standstill on the Capital Beltway because of 200k people heading into State College on football weekends.

I went straight from work to dinner with friends tonight and didn't get a chance to photograph the University tower. Tomorrow Gentlemen

[EastSideHBG]

I can agree with everything that is said so far except for one: HBG is a good place for singles from elsewhere. I've always found the area to be very clique-ish, the roots run very deep and a majority of the young people there are currently settled down w/ a family or looking to do so very soon.

I guess this all comes down to the chicken or the egg argument, as more singles need to move there to change this, but the area needs to be open to them for them to want to come (and stay). Time will tell I guess...on the bright side, it seems as if HBG is beginning to experience its first reversal of the "brain drain" in decades.