Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[MonctonRad]

UFC Fight Night at the Avenir Centre in Moncton NB.



photo courtesy of Budyser, who posts almost exclusively in the Moncton threads.

[Hali87]

Seems like the perfect venue scale for this type of event, it looks like even the furthest seats would have a decent view.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Given what's happening with the Argos, is it most likely we'll see them move to Halifax when the time comes?

It seems Toronto and the CFL need to take a break and figure things out. Worked for the Als/Concordes. Who knows? Lightning could strike twice...

absence makes the heart grow fonder?

...maybe for Toronto to appreciate what they got, they need to loose what they have first, and if it's important enough to get back in the GTA then maybe one of the suburbs like Mississauga, Vaughan, or Markham could field the team instead. Having a small following in such a large urban area in the country just makes the CFL as a whole look amateur.

As far as CFL in Maritimes, much as I'd like the idea of a new 10th team in Halifax, I have some reservations about the long term viability of a team there...

Football doesn't have the same established sports culture in Nova Scotia as it does in other parts of Canada, like The Prairies, in particular Saskatchewan's hundred+ year history with the Riders. People often use Saskatchewan as an example of why/how a team in Atlantic Canada would be successful though.

There is some College football being played in the Maritimes, like at St Mary's University, but it still doesn't match what non CFL cities in The Prairies can pull for support. Saskatoon routinely sells out the 6,200 seats at the U of S stadium (3rd largest college football stadium in Canada outside of CFL stadiums) but no one is saying Saskatoon should get a CFL team because of the fans support of football there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffiths_Stadium

Halifax once even held a CFL exhibition game at St Mary's stadium I believe. Fort MacMurray has also had exhibition and also regular season CFL games played there too but I don't think that it makes that city viable for the CFL either.

As far as population base to rely on for supporting a team in Halifax, there are less than 850,000 Nova Scotians within 3 hour drive of Halifax (Nova Scotia outside of Cape Breton) and even if they named the team after the Martitimes as a whole, I doubt they would get any more support outside of Nova Scotia as Saskatchewan does. In comparison, Regina+Saskatoon is 600,000 people plus another 2/3 of rest of province equals ~1 million, that's within a 3 hour drive of Regina (about distance can drive round trip to make a day trip to see a game).

As far as corporate support in Atlantic Canada for a CFL team there, GDP in Saskatchewan is more than the entire Maritime Provinces combined and as far as disposable income of the populous, income per capita in Regina is about 15% higher than in Halifax.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ties_in_Canada

Even though it probably doesn't make great business sense to field a CFL team in Atlantic Canada, I wish them all best of luck on the venture.

[MonctonRad]

There is a football tradition in central NS and southern NB. There are lots of high school teams. The provincial high school football championship held at Rocky Stone Field in Moncton typically gets about 2,500-3,000 fans in the stadium.

The AUS teams in the Maritimes are all in typical small town universities (MTA, SFX, ACA) and draw well given the average size of their host towns is about 5,000-7,000. The outlier is SMU in Halifax, but they would draw better if they actually had a proper stadium to play in (Saint Mary's Stadium has been falling apart for the last 25 years).

Touchdown Atlantic in Moncton happened three times, with over 20,000 fans at the Moncton Stadium twice. The third time, the CFL was going through the motions and not advertising or promoting the event. Still, about 16,000 people showed up.

I live in Moncton. While I would never be a season's ticket holder for a Halifax based team, it would be worth a three hour drive to go to a couple of games per year. You'll see me down there.

Halifax at 425,000 people is a decent size and certainly could support a team. I agree with you though that corporate sponsorship will be an issue. There isn't a whole lot of private corporate wealth in Halifax.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Even though it probably doesn't make great business sense to field a CFL team in Atlantic Canada, I wish them all best of luck on the venture.

On paper, Regina couldn't support a CFL team either but somehow it works. Halifax's GDP is similar to Regina's and the population is higher, and there is a pretty longstanding football tradition in NS (unlike in NL, where as SignalHillHiker reminds us, football is a bit of a foreign product).

And perhaps most importantly, as with Saskatchewan, a team in Halifax would be a major presence on the sports front. Until recently, the Riders had a monopoly on pro sports in the entire province. It would be a similar situation in NS. I know the CPL will be starting up there too, but it will take some time before the CPL reaches a similar level as the CFL in terms of presence and fan following. So having a city like Halifax pretty well to itself would be a huge factor in terms of the CFL's likelihood of succeeding.

[Taeolas]

A CFL team in Halifax would be the first Top Tier Pro Sport league to come into the region too, which will surely give it a major boost in the team in the early growth years. It's a region with ~2.5M people that is served by the QMLHA and University leagues and the NBL, which while they do well enough, don't really have the same impact that the Big Leagues have. The ultimate dream would be an NHL team of course, but we're a long way from that. A CFL team would be perfect to show Big League sports can work out here, and it would be a natural expansion of the CFL league, finally reaching it from coast to coast.

While I have no interest in Football (or most sports in general), I hope Halifax can pull this off and get a team out there. It's something that feels long overdue.

[q12]

Halifax is also getting a NLL team next year.
NLL ranks third in average attendance for pro indoor sports worldwide, behind only the NHL and NBA.

http://www.halifaxnll.com/

http://www.nll.com/news/national-lac...fax-franchise/

[q12]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

As far as population base to rely on for supporting a team in Halifax, there are less than 850,000 Nova Scotians within 3 hour drive of Halifax (Nova Scotia outside of Cape Breton) and even if they named the team after the Martitimes as a whole, I doubt they would get any more support outside of Nova Scotia as Saskatchewan does. In comparison, Regina+Saskatoon is 600,000 people plus another 2/3 of rest of province equals ~1 million, that's within a 3 hour drive of Regina (about distance can drive round trip to make a day trip to see a game).:

Halifax population 2018: 444,000
Source

Maritimes Population: 1,883,849
Saskatchewan: 1,162,062


According to Google maps to Shannon Park in Dartmouth.

Sydney 4 h
Fredericton 3 h 45 min
Saint John 3 h 30 min
Charlottetown 3 h 15 min
Moncton 2 h 15 min

I can confirm these times as I've driven these routes.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by esquire

On paper, Regina couldn't support a CFL team either but somehow it works. Halifax's GDP is similar to Regina's and the population is higher, and there is a pretty longstanding football tradition in NS (unlike in NL, where as SignalHillHiker reminds us, football is a bit of a foreign product).

Not so foreign anymore, the sport has grown considerably in the past 2-3 years. There is a provincial league now, with multiple teams at multiple age groups (nothing over 18 yet though), as well as an actual football field a few minutes away from my house. Football viewership is a lot higher with the younger demographic (15-30) than it ever has been before.

That being said, the league is playing under NFL rules on a NFL-sized field (no 55 yard centre line, 4 downs, etc), and the popularity of the sport is mainly through the NFL. CFL is still pretty unpopular. Myself, along with almost everyone else I know who watch football, watch exclusively NFL.

I know the Halifax team will probably brand itself as a regional, Atlantic Canadian team, but I can't see much support coming from NL. It's also outside the sphere of easy travel if you want to see the game. May as well focus on being a Maritime team, in my opinion, unless they don't want to feel too exclusive of NL. I don't think it'll hurt our feelings though

[q12]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

I know the Halifax team will probably brand itself as a regional, Atlantic Canadian team, but I can't see much support coming from NL. It's also outside the sphere of easy travel if you want to see the game. May as well focus on being a Maritime team, in my opinion, unless they don't want to feel too exclusive of NL. I don't think it'll hurt our feelings though

It's too bad St. John's is not located on the west coast of Newfoundland near Port aux Basques. I would imagine NL's connection to the maritimes would be much stronger, more like Victoria and Vancouver.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

Not so foreign anymore, the sport has grown considerably in the past 2-3 years. There is a provincial league now, with multiple teams at multiple age groups (nothing over 18 yet though), as well as an actual football field a few minutes away from my house. Football viewership is a lot higher with the younger demographic (15-30) than it ever has been before.

I take your point that it's growing and that a league now exists, but football is still a niche pursuit in NL to put it mildly... it's a TV show beamed in from the States on Sundays more than anything else.

Contrast with NS where the game has fairly deep roots. The picture that SaskScraper was painting was probably more in line with the reality in NL than in NS.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

That being said, the league is playing under NFL rules on a NFL-sized field (no 55 yard centre line, 4 downs, etc), and the popularity of the sport is mainly through the NFL. CFL is still pretty unpopular. Myself, along with almost everyone else I know who watch football, watch exclusively NFL.

Unpopular or simply ignored?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Unpopular or simply ignored?

Interestingly, the closest pro football team to them is in the NFL. So between the NFL's sheer presence and the lack of any CFL teams remotely near them, it isn't surprising they wouldn't be paying attention.

But realistically, NL is irrelevant to either the CFL or NFL. It's damn near impossible to imagine a scenario where St. John's would ever get a CFL expansion team. Even if they somehow developed Saskatchewan-like levels of rabid fandom I still couldn't see it happening.

[JHikka]

NL is untenable for most sports leagues simply due to location and population. The CFL is not an outlier in that regard.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Unpopular or simply ignored?

Well, I was trying to be nice

Originally Posted by esquire

Interestingly, the closest pro football team to them is in the NFL. So between the NFL's sheer presence and the lack of any CFL teams remotely near them, it isn't surprising they wouldn't be paying attention.

But realistically, NL is irrelevant to either the CFL or NFL. It's damn near impossible to imagine a scenario where St. John's would ever get a CFL expansion team. Even if they somehow developed Saskatchewan-like levels of rabid fandom I still couldn't see it happening.

I don't think anyone is implying that'll happen. Even if in 20 years every person on the Avalon Peninsula eat, sleep, and breathed the CFL, the population wouldn't even be close to enough to support a team.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

But realistically, NL is irrelevant to either the CFL or NFL. It's damn near impossible to imagine a scenario where St. John's would ever get a CFL expansion team. Even if they somehow developed Saskatchewan-like levels of rabid fandom I still couldn't see it happening.

THE point that matters.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Huh, I must have missed the part where I implied that the CFL and St. John's were on a collision course for a future team/stadium/etc. The only point i was addressing was that whereas up to even 10 years ago most people wouldn't know a football if it were in front of them, that's not really the case anymore.

[elly63]

You've got 190 million and cannot go over 24k seating capacity and must build a facility to endure a Canadian winter, without using low priced labour, what is the best you can do?

[someone123]

It's also relevant to point out that there are few alternatives to a CFL type experience in Atlantic Canada, and the nearest major metropolitan areas are far away. A lot of people will be interested in going to a large stadium to see pro sports even if they weren't into football before.

The bread and butter of ticket sales for a CFL team in Halifax would be tickets sold in the immediate area. However, a lot of people on here try to downplay how much Halifax functions as the "big city" for the region. It's not like what, say, Montreal is in Quebec, but if you drive around in Halifax you constantly see license plates from all 4 provinces. The fact is that it has some region-wide pull, and this is going to grow in the future, particularly if more regionally unique infrastructure and businesses pop up there.

[MonctonRad]

There is no question that as Halifax grows, it is becoming more of a regional draw. Things like IKEA and the prospect of a CFL team (in the future) certainly do matter.

Having said this, Moncton is self sufficient in 98% of things, and most people never have to visit Halifax unless they want to (for a change of scenery).

There are lots of cars in Moncton at Costco, Bass Pro Shops, and Champlain Place from all three Maritime provinces too. There have been (literally) bus loads of fans coming up to the Avenir Centre from Halifax to watch the Mooseheads play the Wildcats this season so far. I think some of this is curiosity about our new arena. There were also been a lot of out of province people who came to the UFC event the other night too.

It goes both ways...........