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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2021, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Since it appears that Blackstone will anchor 350 Park, I'd like to see KPMG or Morgan Stanley anchor 175 Park. As 345 Park would be virtually empty, I hope that Rudin razes it and builds a hyper-tower on its site. Under the Midtown East Rezoning, can an owner build a mixed use with hotel and condos? I assume that's the case since that's what RFR is doing at the Hyatt site. Can you imagine a 1,700' tower at 345 Park with 1,000' of office, 200' of 5 star hotel, and 500' at the top of mega-luxury condos?

"Mr. [Rudin]: Take down this wall [of junk]!"

As long as whatever replaces it compliments the Seagram Building next door.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2021, 10:27 PM
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That building, like 270 Park, sits on a split-zoned site (25-23 FAR). The average of 24 is slightly more than what 270 has. Residential development can be no more than 20% of any development in midtown east to take advantage of the rezoning. Any hotel space would have to recieve a special permit, even if the site previously had a hotel.






81,000 sf lot by 24 FAR = 1.944,000 msf (minus any mechanical) making any redevelopment there another 2.5 msf + blockbuster.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 12:46 AM
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https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article...-earnings-call

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Alexander Goldfarb

Okay. The second question, Steve, is going back to Penn Station, you guys for over two decades have been talking about Penn Station. We all know the issues about the streetscape and the neighborhood and the desire to see that improve. When you look at Grand Central that area is already there, Eastside Access is clearly going to sites in a way a huge chunk of Long Island commuters and you guys have 350 Park.

It would seem that 350 is almost the better site than Hotel Penn, just given that the neighborhood is already there, and there are a lot more people being excited by the commuter hub and you have East Side access coming in the next few years.

So what are your thoughts on accelerating 350 and where does that fit in your pipeline as you guys are flat market anchoring a Hotel Penn versus getting tenants to anchor at 350?

Steven Roth

We are an equal opportunity employer, wherever the tenants want to go, that's where we want to put them. We have - obviously, we have an enormous amount of respect for our 350 Park Avenue asset, it's a great asset and it's kind of like bite-sized. It's a 500,000 square feet asset. It's obviously a candidate for teardown and rebuild.

But in teardown and rebuild is a combination and we can grow the site too, by the way, as speculated in the press. So we could grow it so that it's more than 2 million square foot building if we wanted to just focus on our own site without growing it, which would be a million square foot building.

That is an immense financial undertaking which would require record rents, which we have talked to several tenants about, and we may do that, but the likelihood is we will not do that. The more likely outcome is that we will rent up the existing 350 Park Avenue at very favorable rents and so it would like postpone it for a cycle, and retain the option of doing a new build on it or continuing to rent the existing building the over time.

So it's more likely that we will not do a teardown on that site and rent it out for one more cycle, and focus our efforts on the Penn Station district. That's the more likely outcome, although we couldn't be more delighted.

By the way, if we decided that we wanted to sell that asset with all of its optionality in terms of the new build or whatever, we think we can get an extraordinary price for it, but that's not something that's high on our agenda right now.
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  #4  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2021, 2:18 AM
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https://www.fool.com/amp/earnings/ca...ings-call-tra/


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Aug 3, 2021


Alexander Goldfarb -- Piper Sandler & Co. -- Analyst

Good morning. Thank you. Good morning, Steve. Good morning, Michael.

So two questions. And actually, Steve, you just sort of recasted the question I was going to ask. I was going to ask you if you still believe in Manhattan tilting to the South and the West, given the resurgence of Midtown, Grand Central. Obviously, you guys bought One Park.

But to Jamie's question, you just talked about 350 Park enough tenants to double the demand. So I guess, wrapping up because I'd like to ask about 350, do you see Midtown, the Grand Central market returning as the dominant submarket or do you still believe that New York is still tilting to the South and to the West?
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Steven Roth -- Chairman & Chief Executive Officer

I like the phrase that I invented some years ago, the predictive phrase that New York is tilting. I think that's still the case. Notwithstanding, New York is a great mysterious, wonderful place, OK? So Park Avenue South, which is what's what we call that So Midtown South is a smaller, but very highly sought-after submarket. There's not going to be any new construction in there.

… now let's go to conventional Midtown. Park Avenue has been a stepchild for a while. It's gotten older and tighter and that is now changing aggressively.

Park Avenue is going to reclaim its role as the great boulevard of commerce in the world. So we have JP Morgan Chase tearing down a building and rebuilding it with a stupendous headquarters building, which we're familiar with because they're using Norman Foster. So we have -- and their plans have been published. We own the adjacent building to that, 280 Park Avenue, which we're very enthusiastic about.

There are two other potential -- there's another brand new Foster building up at 55th Street. There's two more teardowns and rebuilds that are going to happen in Park Avenue. So Park Avenue is going to become what it always should be and that's a premier boulevard of commerce. So all of these parts in the city is not going to be segregated into one or two submarkets, all submarkets are going to do well.

We believe that on a relative basis, the Midtown West market, the PENN District market will do on a relative basis better than the others and will grow faster than the others and we'll have higher demand than the others. And the statistics, as I said, about market share, if you look at how much leasing is done in each district compared to how large a district is, the PENN District wins that race. But everything in New York is going to thrive, except for the really c*** buildings, and there are plenty of them.
Quote:
Alexander Goldfarb -- Piper Sandler & Co. -- Analyst

And Steve, you still feel confident on your bet on Penn Station winning the race over Grand Central even after the opening of East Side Access, which East Side Access obviously would be great for 280, great for 350 and your other neighboring buildings, but you still -- you don't think East Side access will eat into your Penn Station?

Steven Roth -- Chairman & Chief Executive Officer

No. I think it's -- I think the -- look, you can look at all kinds of negative issues. Penn Station has always been the transportation hub of this region for 100 years, OK? All of the networks and all the spiderweb of transportation from the 380 degrees come into Penn Station, and that's the way it's designed. Now obviously, there's going to be -- Grand Central, is not nothing, and -- but it will be fine.

There will be plenty of business in Penn Station. I'm not in a relative race with Grand Central. Grand Central is going to be fine. We think Penn Station is going to be a little and that's OK with me.


… There's an enormous amount of public capital that is being invested in Penn now. I'm sure you've seen the Moynihan improvement, which is, of course, ours all the adjacent real estate to retail, etc. And I'm sure you couldn't be more aware of the Gateway project, which is a massive infrastructure project. And I'm sure you're also aware of the plans to expand Penn Station's trackage which means capacity to the South, which is -- I mean these are huge infrastructure projects, which have 10-year projects and take tens and tens of billions of dollars.

And I can tell you that the government's focus is on Penn. So we believe in Penn. And that doesn't mean that Grand Central isn't going to thrive as well. It will, and we hope it will.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2021, 6:01 PM
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Wow, this is fantastic news. It's pretty clear that Blackstone is eyeing anchoring a new supertall at 350 Park. Hopefully we get a stunning landmark.
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 3:57 PM
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This skyscraper reminds me of sci-fi. It's pretty weird to have a skyscraper with two antennas like Willis Tower and John Hancock Center. But the question is when will Vornado Company start the demolition? Because the building's completion is drawing closer now...
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Raysiri View Post
This skyscraper reminds me of sci-fi. It's pretty weird to have a skyscraper with two antennas like Willis Tower and John Hancock Center. But the question is when will Vornado Company start the demolition? Because the building's completion is drawing closer now...


Quote:
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-t...-call-tra.aspx

It's a matter of can you actually begin the development. And so if you just think about the timing, we have leases that run through really beginning of 2024, Glen?

Glen Weiss -- Executive Vice President-Office Leasing and Co-Head of Real Estate

End of '23.

Michael J. Franco -- President

End of '23. And so that's the earliest that we could begin to take the building down.
Still a couple of years out. The Hotel Penn and Grand Hyatt will come down first.
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 2:41 PM
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Hopefully, Morgan, which is FLUSH with cash, will consider this site for its new HQ.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/10/14/...s-q3-2021.html

Morgan Stanley beats estimates on record investment banking and asset management results
PUBLISHED THU, OCT 14 2021 7:12 AM EDT
UPDATED 60 MIN AGO
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 5:22 PM
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Yeah, 350 Park would be perfect for the new Morgan Stanley world HQ.
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 5:28 PM
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Right across from 270 Park, Big Bank Row. lol
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  #11  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 6:27 PM
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Plus Park Ave has plenty of room for all the protesters to gather when the giant banks inevitably cause another global economic depression! Yayyyyyy!
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  #12  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 6:45 PM
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Plus Park Ave has plenty of room for all the protesters to gather when the giant banks inevitably cause another global economic depression! Yayyyyyy!



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vul...snl-video.html
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 7:15 PM
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Its a downer but its true. 2008 wasnt that long ago.
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  #14  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 7:33 PM
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Its a downer but its true.
As they usually are.
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  #15  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 10:22 PM
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I think this may rise last in the crop of super talls. Can see this as a long term play tower. In time... but not soon in the acute sense. 2027/2028 ish is my gut feeling.
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  #16  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 11:03 PM
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I think this may rise last in the crop of super talls. Can see this as a long term play tower. In time... but not soon in the acute sense. 2027/2028 ish is my gut feeling.
Which is sad, this is my favorite of all of them.

I just hope it gets built someday.
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  #17  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2021, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I think this may rise last in the crop of super talls. Can see this as a long term play tower. In time... but not soon in the acute sense. 2027/2028 ish is my gut feeling.
Well, Vornado is focusing on 15 Penn first, but this particular development has to fit in a cycle of expired leases, which come in a few years.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 9:31 PM
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Hopefully the Morgan Stanley lease has a demolition clause, which is pretty standard.

Otherwise, we're gonna have to wait a cycle or two till we get a new supertall, or we're gonna get a small-footprint tower on the site of 350 Park.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 10:05 PM
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I thought that MS would move into the tower next to 350 Park, but it seems that they're moving into this one across the street. I guess that Blackstone occupied space in both towers.



https://therealdeal.com/2022/01/04/m...=feature_posts
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  #20  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 10:13 PM
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There will be a redevelopment of the site, they’ve always said with or without the combined site. It could even be a supertall, but that’s not a big concern here. It’s not as if the city is lacking in supertall development.

Anyway, this rendering shows a tower only on the Vornado site.



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