Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[GenWhy?]

Imagine having $1.5 million in work put in the paper shredder

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Imagine having $1.5 million in work put in the paper shredder

Life of a bureaucrat

[WarrenC12]

How many studies at what cost have been done for the Street car line? There's even land sitting aside for it.

None of this stuff gets shredded though. It's all there to dust off next time.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Life of a bureaucrat

Not just bureaucrats.

The CoV is basically a large business. Voters instead of shareholders, but the mayor and council and city staff essentially have the same fiduciary responsibility as a corporation's management and directors. Disney canned Batgirl after spending $90 million. CNN shut down its streaming service after one month despite investing $300 million. Countless companies regularly hire management consultants, burn a few hundred thousand dollars, and throw the end report in the trash. I can promise you that any organization with revenues in excess of $2 billion (CoV's 2019 revenues) have R&D that was written off, excess equipment not being put to use, employee bloat, etc.

[libtard]

Hahahahaha where are all those homers saying road pricing is coming to Vancouver. Bbbbbut they do it in Europe.

[officedweller]

The fact of the matter is that Vancouver traffic is not so bad that we need it.
It was totally an environmental / social engineering exercise.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I suspect that road tolling is simply ahead of its time; 3-4 councils from now, traffic may very well be bad (and transit good) enough for it to pass.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The fact of the matter is that Vancouver traffic is not so bad that we need it.
It was totally an environmental / social engineering exercise.

Then how come people constantly bitch and moan about traffic on this forum?

Pitching a road tax as an environmental measure was a mistake IMO. The city should have pitched the economic benefits for the city. For example, all revenues could have been directed to road maintenance or transit services. The city could have even offered a rebate to city residents so that only those coming from outside of Vancouver proper would be paying to drive downtown. This would have helped to avoid alienating voters.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I suspect that road tolling is simply ahead of its time; 3-4 councils from now, traffic may very well be bad (and transit good) enough for it to pass.

When you are adding 5 million more people into mainly 2-3 cities, traffic will inevitably get worse. That goes with health care, education, demand for food and essential products and other public services. Road tolling just screws over the poor and doesn't accomplish anything.

People once thought the price of gas near $2/L would force people to take alternative measures of transportation yet traffic has progressively gotten worse in light of the higher gas prices. People are bidding on used vehicles and buying cars way above the MSRP. The price point where one gives up their vehicle will be the same threshold that forces one to go to Main and Hastings.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Then how come people constantly bitch and moan about traffic on this forum?

I might be in the minority but I think urban/downtown traffic isn't too bad, considering the volume. I can get around, lights are well timed, etc.

Suburban traffic is hell. Langley? Surrey? It's a nightmare, even well outside of rush hours.

[mattropolis]

Coquitlam traffic is worse on Saturday and Sunday afternoons than during the weekday. I don't commute by car to downtown, but I agree that suburb traffic is likely worse than Vancouver city proper.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I might be in the minority but I think urban/downtown traffic isn't too bad, considering the volume. I can get around, lights are well timed, etc.

Suburban traffic is hell. Langley? Surrey? It's a nightmare, even well outside of rush hours.

Don't forget the North Shore!

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

When you are adding 5 million more people into mainly 2-3 cities, traffic will inevitably get worse. That goes with health care, education, demand for food and essential products and other public services. Road tolling just screws over the poor and doesn't accomplish anything.

People once thought the price of gas near $2/L would force people to take alternative measures of transportation yet traffic has progressively gotten worse in light of the higher gas prices. People are bidding on used vehicles and buying cars way above the MSRP. The price point where one gives up their vehicle will be the same threshold that forces one to go to Main and Hastings.

I think your logicbomb may have exploded. Five Million? We've just passed two and a half million, and that took 150 years to get here. The next million is expected to be added in 30 years or so (and in more than three cities). Adding five million would take us way past the point of having anything recognizeable as a car.

[GenWhy?]

Sunset, Victoria-Fraserview, and Killarney have the highest commute by car % out of the city (ignoring the well-off West Side), which makes sense per their transit. I don't know if there has been sufficient data on where they are commuting to (industrial areas are generally not well served by transit bad for walking or bikes).

Pre-COVID I think Vancouver proper was almost at 60% commute by other modes, and I think 60-70% commuted within the city.

Knight and 41st/49th are terribly under-looked; though, I bet Burnaby / New West feel the same way about Canada Way / Eighth Street, or how Coquitlam feels about Austin or Brunette.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I think your logicbomb may have exploded. Five Million? We've just passed two and a half million, and that took 150 years to get here. The next million is expected to be added in 30 years or so (and in more than three cities). Adding five million would take us way past the point of having anything recognizeable as a car.

Canada brings in almost half a million immigrants a year, and there's a common perception that they all go to Vancouver + Toronto + Montreal. Not too crazy to get 5 million in 2-3 cities from those numbers.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Sunset, Victoria-Fraserview, and Killarney have the highest commute by car % out of the city (ignoring the well-off West Side), which makes sense per their transit. I don't know if there has been sufficient data on where they are commuting to (industrial areas are generally not well served by transit bad for walking or bikes).

Pre-COVID I think Vancouver proper was almost at 60% commute by other modes, and I think 60-70% commuted within the city.

Knight and 41st/49th are terribly under-looked; though, I bet Burnaby / New West feel the same way about Canada Way / Eighth Street, or how Coquitlam feels about Austin or Brunette.

Some data on this:

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2019-transportation-panel-survey.pdf

Page 40, figure 4-2 has the data broken out by neighbourhood groups. As suspected Vancouver Southeast and Vancouver Kerrisdale have the highest 2019 mode share for private vehicles at 64%. CoV as a whole was 45% in 2019.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by mcj

Some data on this:

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2019-transportation-panel-survey.pdf

Page 40, figure 4-2 has the data broken out by neighbourhood groups. As suspected Vancouver Southeast and Vancouver Kerrisdale have the highest 2019 mode share for private vehicles at 64%. CoV as a whole was 45% in 2019.

And, from a quick re-scan, the highest % that travel to from outside the COV, which I assume is all the employment areas along the Fraser in Vancouver, Burnaby, and Richmond which are fairly car-dependent.

[GenWhy?]

EDIT: Nvm I read the data table wrong

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Canada brings in almost half a million immigrants a year, and there's a common perception that they all go to Vancouver + Toronto + Montreal. Not too crazy to get 5 million in 2-3 cities from those numbers.

500,000 immigrants a year might arrive, but that doesn't mean the population goes up by 500,000, because others leave. And even if Canada did add another 5 million over 10 years, less than 10% would come to Metro Vancouver, if past patterns continue.

And - according to the Metro Vancouver Population Projection; "With the overall aging of the population and a growing share of the population in the older age cohorts, the number of deaths in Metro Vancouver is expected to increase more rapidly than the number of births. Thus, the natural increase will continue to decrease and reach 0 in the early 2030s; deaths will continue to exceed births thereafter".

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Then how come people constantly bitch and moan about traffic on this forum?

Pitching a road tax as an environmental measure was a mistake IMO. The city should have pitched the economic benefits for the city. For example, all revenues could have been directed to road maintenance or transit services. The city could have even offered a rebate to city residents so that only those coming from outside of Vancouver proper would be paying to drive downtown. This would have helped to avoid alienating voters.

The proposal was to tax entry into Downtown Vancouver, not regionally.
Other than Lions Gate Bridge, the toll would not directly impact traffic on inter-municipal bridge crossings that are the major choke points.
Cambie Bridge, Granville Bridge and Burrard Bridge do not have significant delays (warranting a toll) unless there is a protest.
To me, a significant delay is maybe 30 minutes sitting in traffic (which happens at Oak St. Bridge).