CHICAGO | General Discussions

[Tcmetro]

It's absolutely a government issue. There's barely any public trash cans in the neighborhoods. In Minneapolis there's garbage cans on street corners all over the city. From what I've heard, the city doesn't want the nice metal recepticles stolen, but I don't get how having a less nice looking concrete can is worse than having trash all over.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

It pains me to think of the 80 year old south/west-side residents who must live amongst filth, while, not to mention, sheltering from gunfire each summer evening, because most of the youth in these communities are such terrible citizens.

In my early 20s, I was poor, with a negative bank account balance, but would lug my empty Doritos bag over to a nearby trash can every time, because it was simply the right thing to do.

Can you provide a reference for your assertion that "most of the youth in these communities are such terrible citizens"? That seems like a stretch and part of the existing (incorrect) stereotype this entire thread has been about.

For the record, I see people on the North Side throwing trash out of their car windows all the time. You were a hero in your 20s, but you've hardly proven anything with your broad assumptions about others and simple anecdotes about yourself.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^ Your assertion can be quickly dismantled by simply looking at the Japanese, who have essentially zero public trash cans, yet there's not a discarded gum wrapper to be found.

It's a people problem here.

The World Economic Forum thinks it is in part due to the Government of Japan's policies on recycling and waste in the 90s. They also disagree about "zero public trash cans".

There are often rubbish bins near vending machines and it’s not unusual to hand your packaging back to the street-food seller.

[Via Chicago]

Japan is also a highly conservative society with a lot of repression under the placid seeming surface, at the expense of the notion of the individual. Not really a fair comparison to a highly individualistic country like the US which barely has anything resembling a functioning social contract. It all comes down to wealth and expressions of such, as opposed to any notion of greater good

Also, let's face facts. Our planet is drowning in non biodegradable garbage. If it's not on a suburban lawn, then it's floating in the ocean or being shipped to a poor village in India or china to be dumped (aka modern day recycling). Per usual, were putting the onus on end consumers to solve problems being ultimately caused by massive global profit driven corporations that have levels of wealth larger than small countries

[Tcmetro]

Your take is so bad. There's a lack of public garbage cans and instead of supporting adding those you throw your hands up and say it's "a people problem". I can guarantee that if Minneapolis decided to remove the cans from the right of way, there would be a litter problem.

Guess what? There's a bunch of people in "bad neighborhoods" who care about their property and don't litter. There's a bunch of people in "good neighborhoods" that don't care and leave their garbage everywhere. It's a little more nuanced than "those people don't mind living in their trash".

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

People don't litter because "systemic racism" or corporate greed. It's because they're lazy and have no consideration for others.

This is where you give away your true motivations. By mis-characterizing the position of anyone who disagrees, you neatly avoid addressing any of their points (or even acknowledging your own incorrect points, like trash cans in Japan).

Is it safe to say you have no data to back up your initial claim that "most youth in these communities are terrible citizens"? I assume you would have provided it if you did.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

People don't litter because "systemic racism" or corporate greed. It's because they're lazy and have no consideration for others.

lets just create a product at incredibly cheap rates that never breaks down in 1000 years, has no market to be recycled, and produce hundreds of billions of replicas of it every year with no consequences. what could go wrong, stock price goes up! oh, whats that, things went wrong? hey i know the solution, lets blame the urban poor! probably some defect they were born with. whens happy hour?

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

The World Economic Forum thinks it is in part due to the Government of Japan's policies on recycling and waste in the 90s. They also disagree about "zero public trash cans".

The U.S. and Japan are different. But having spent time in Japan, I can guarantee you that you can walk around for a month and never see someone drop some garbage on the street. I've been in AirBnB's in Japan where the guide had about three pages on how to deal with trash. It just isn't done because of the way they are socialized. This is simply inarguable. Whether it's good or not can be debated, but Japanese culture seems broadly healthy to me.

In Germany, I've seen some quite poor rural communities that are immaculate. I've asked friends about it and there's simply a high level of community expectation and social pressure around how you maintain your home, regardless of your circumstance.

In the U.S. a lot of things contribute to how communities deal with trash and similar matters and some of it has to do with how well members of the community are socialized. Part of the reason people may be poorly socialized has to do with systemic problems in the past and we should invest extra in education, community initiatives, policing and health programs so that in the future all citizens can be productive, happy and contribute.

And of course, the city should invest in public garbage cans. We're never going to be Japan and we should deal with problems pragmatically. Wishing we had a 1400 year old, homogenous honor culture probably isn't desirable and certainly isn't realistic.

But any individual who opens their window and throws a bottle out or drops their McDonald's bag at their feet and walks away has disgraced themselves and I don't want to be near them. I'd cut off a toe before I did something that anti-social. It's like smoking on the L or parking in a bike lane or bus stop. Or removing parts on your truck so it spews smoke.

[Steely Dan]

^ yep.

it's BOTH a culture and a civic issue.

but after 2+ decades, i'm all too aware of the fact that looking for nuanced thinking on the internet is usually a fool's errand.

[BrinChi]

So much good stuff from this discussion. Agreed it's both a cultural and a civic issue. We can influence the culture by fighting it at the civic level and leading by example. Someone asked what should the city do? send every employee out to pick up trash every day just to do it again the next day? YES. That's exactly what they should do. And the cost of paying $15/hour to 1000 underemployed citizens on a daily basis would be so miniscule compared to the benefits. I'd gladly pay higher property taxes for THAT service. And I would bet $10k that, when coupled with more trash cans, the cost would plateau or go down within a couple years as clean streets, sidewalks, and property is normalized across the city.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Tcmetro

Your take is so bad. There's a lack of public garbage cans and instead of supporting adding those you throw your hands up and say it's "a people problem". I can guarantee that if Minneapolis decided to remove the cans from the right of way, there would be a litter problem.

Guess what? There's a bunch of people in "bad neighborhoods" who care about their property and don't litter. There's a bunch of people in "good neighborhoods" that don't care and leave their garbage everywhere. It's a little more nuanced than "those people don't mind living in their trash".

Yeah…..a true garbage take.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

Can anybody provide any reliable source to support the claim that he was undoubtedly a terrible person?
...

No source, but generally speaking the men who set out as explorers in that era were terrible people - people in that era in general were not wonderful human beings in general in a modern sense, and ones who decided to up and leave society and strike out on their own had good reasons to do so, reasons that generally had to do with not being good at playing by what few societal rules existed in those days.

Was he worse relative to other, similar men of the era? Not that i'm aware of. But he most definitely wouldn't be the kind of person your average Millennial would want to subscribe to his podcast.

[the urban politician]

^ Nonsense.

I'm pretty sure that explorers and settlers were just more risk-averse than the little sheep who stuck it out in their little oppressive communities where they scurried around scared of their local church leaders' and town councils' wrath.

I think settlers were awesome.

[the urban politician]

Is anybody attending this little fiesta on State St (closed to traffic)?

This is legit awesome. Good music, really cool techno DJ near me, and of course there is alcohol.

Best thing I’ve seen downtown since Looptopia!

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Is anybody attending this little fiesta on State St (closed to traffic)?

This is legit awesome. Good music, really cool techno DJ near me, and of course there is alcohol.

Best thing I’ve seen downtown since Looptopia!

Sounds much better than the, very over-crowded, Tacos and Tamales Fest in Pilsen that we took the kids to over the weekend. Finding that any outdoor event in the city is drawing huge crowds.

[left of center]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Best thing I’ve seen downtown since Looptopia!

Wow, that's a blast from the past. I remember attending Looptopia when I was a UIC student. I really enjoyed it. It a shame the city did not continue it.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by left of center

Wow, that's a blast from the past. I remember attending Looptopia when I was a UIC student. I really enjoyed it. It a shame the city did not continue it.

Thirded. Was a great idea and would love to see a new version of it resurrected.

[Randomguy34]

I'm hearing the US Census is releasing their second data set tomorrow. Do we know if it's another estimate, or will they be providing the actual raw counts?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

I'm hearing the US Census is releasing their second data set tomorrow. Do we know if it's another estimate, or will they be providing the actual raw counts?

Where did you hear that? I see next ones in September, December, March, etc.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Where did you hear that? I see next ones in September, December, March, etc.

Census Bureau to Hold News Conference on Release of 2020 Census Redistricting Data
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...ting-data.html

What:
The U.S. Census Bureau will hold a news conference to discuss the release of the first local level results from the 2020 Census. States use these data on race, Hispanic origin, and the voting-age population to redraw the boundaries of their congressional and state legislative districts.

The news conference will provide initial analysis of the first local level results from the 2020 Census on population change, race, ethnicity, the age 18 and over population, and housing occupancy status.

A live Q&A session with Census Bureau subject-matter experts will immediately follow the briefing for credentialed media who have RSVPed.

When:
Thursday, August 12, at 1 p.m. EDT