Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Sheba]

Did any of you three read more than the headline - 'cause it sure doesn't look like it. For starters you missed "Federal prosecutors". This isn't some 'made in BC' proposal that's going to draw people here because it's not happening in their province.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Did any of you three read more than the headline - 'cause it sure doesn't look like it. For starters you missed "Federal prosecutors". This isn't some 'made in BC' proposal that's going to draw people here because it's not happening in their province.

It will have a disproportionate impact in BC, and even more so in Vancouver. A lot positive will come from it - courts need to be cleared up, we don't need to be prosecuting people for dime bags. Its ridiculous.

Doesn't do anything to actually address the issues we have though.

[SpongeG]

Developers hope to reclaim downtrodden DTES

Developers, altruistic buyers spend big in bid to fix city’s most broken neighbourhood
By Frank O'Brien | August 26, 2020


52 Powell Street sold for $8.1 million in April, more than $1.3 million above its assessed value | Submitted

In April, when Toronto-based Allied Real Estate Investment Trust bought a 115-year-old office building at 375 Water Street for an estimated $225 million – nearly $100 million above its assessed value – it marked the largest sale in what has become a real estate rush into Vancouver’s notorious Downtown Eastside (DTES).

The sale of the Landing, where the land value is assessed at $111 million, is an indication that, despite its reputation as an open drug market and a no-go neighbourhood rife with crime and poverty, real estate investors are willing to pay prices that rival values anywhere in the city.

Real estate agents working the DTES zone say that conditions, already bad, have become remarkably worse since COVID-19 began. The spread of graffiti, garbage, discarded needles and the homeless “is bleeding” from its Main and Hastings core west towards Burrard Street, east to Strathcona – where a large and apparently permanent tent encampment has set up – and north to the Railtown area on the waterfront.

“Japantown is a gong show,” said Marc Saul, of Corbel Commercial Inc. – which has sold more than $25 million worth of DTES real estate in the past 18 months –in referring to an historic neighbourhood where a large homeless camp at Oppenheimer Park was dismantled by Vancouver Police in May.

...

https://biv.com/article/2020/08/develope...EXeDDyEo3S4NirL76N-57-bFZIHcQ0MLDFGibNuU

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Aren't journalists supposed to filter out nonsense pretending to be facts?

saw this on facebook

Edward H Bell
26 Aug ·
Covid KILLED the drug supply and it's bad. At the testing site (808 hastings street) nearly all cocaine is now cut with Levamisole which is hog dewormer which is toxic and causes nasty infections. This is the least of our problems. Our Naloxone isn't working, the drugs are now being mixed with Benzos which causes depressed respiratory. Naloxone only reacts to opiods, and we are injecting 3-5 rounds with no response. Your dealer isn't Pablo Escobar, the boarders are closed, this isn't just a street issue. This is a supply and demand issue during a pandemic. Please get your drugs tested, please be trained in giving oxygen, chest compression, and narcan. I can supply everyone with a kit. (Also available at most drug stores) But fentanyl is just one of your many problems with the drugs right now, methylamine, Benzos, etc. Everything is being cut. Please pass along and stay safe.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Developers hope to reclaim downtrodden DTES

Developers, altruistic buyers spend big in bid to fix city’s most broken neighbourhood
By Frank O'Brien | August 26, 2020


52 Powell Street sold for $8.1 million in April, more than $1.3 million above its assessed value | Submitted

In April, when Toronto-based Allied Real Estate Investment Trust bought a 115-year-old office building at 375 Water Street for an estimated $225 million – nearly $100 million above its assessed value – it marked the largest sale in what has become a real estate rush into Vancouver’s notorious Downtown Eastside (DTES).

The sale of the Landing, where the land value is assessed at $111 million, is an indication that, despite its reputation as an open drug market and a no-go neighbourhood rife with crime and poverty, real estate investors are willing to pay prices that rival values anywhere in the city.

Real estate agents working the DTES zone say that conditions, already bad, have become remarkably worse since COVID-19 began. The spread of graffiti, garbage, discarded needles and the homeless “is bleeding” from its Main and Hastings core west towards Burrard Street, east to Strathcona – where a large and apparently permanent tent encampment has set up – and north to the Railtown area on the waterfront.

“Japantown is a gong show,” said Marc Saul, of Corbel Commercial Inc. – which has sold more than $25 million worth of DTES real estate in the past 18 months –in referring to an historic neighbourhood where a large homeless camp at Oppenheimer Park was dismantled by Vancouver Police in May.

...

https://biv.com/article/2020/08/develope...EXeDDyEo3S4NirL76N-57-bFZIHcQ0MLDFGibNuU

Poor Toronto investors: they don't know what they got themsleves into.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

And is funding police and resources to patrol and rest users with substance abuse challenges and throwing them into jail going to make the problem going away?

What if all the funding we are throwing at it in all the wrong ways was used differently?

What if we viewed this as a health issue and not a criminal issue?

What if we decriminalized small possession, provided a clean supply (possibly in very specific postal codes), taking away from the profits from the true criminals who are providing the current supply, and use the resources we'd otherwise spend on managing/patrolling/arresting/incarcerating/lawyering/judging instead to help treat and improve the lives of those that are struggling?

Wouldn't that feel more humane? And hopefully more successful?

I don't know much about much on the topic, but whatever we're doing isn't working. I believe Portugal is a pretty successful example of doing something very similar to what I described here above.

We are actually doing the items that you just listed. Treating drug-abuse as a crime is by name only. In reality, authorities don't give a damn when someone shoots up in the open. Drug criminals get light sentences, and they don't even get held up in jail: they are usually "processed", then released pending court date appearances. Light sentences are also given to those convicted, and most get released to continue their smuggling, manufacturing and peddling activities.

If you care to open your eyes, you can see that drugs are essentially decriminalized here in British Columbia, especially when addicts can get free drugs through government-run centres, which benefit a slew of "healthcare" industries and staff.

Don't believe that a lot of police resources are going to patrol the streets either. The fact is cops probably spend more time taking coffee breaks and sitting in their patrol cars going online on their laptops than walking the beat in DTES: yes, and I mean during their working hours.

What you listed have been practiced for years and the result is simply getting worse. In this country we like to sugarcoat and paint pretty pictures, but just go to the DTES and you can see everything is contrary to what you are being told. So in fact, we should be doing the opposite: crack down really hard on drug crimes and use, and then we can see the situation improve.

FYI, while authorities are dilly-dallying around, more drug users OD and many die. If you agree with the status-quo, you are indirectly causing the death of these people. That's not humane. Making them go cold turkey and saving their lives, and turning them into productive citizens again, is humane. At the same time, we remove the market from the drug criminals: forcing them to seek other types of employment, like pizza delivery.

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Are we supposed to be cheering this? So now government basically becomes a dealer. What incentive is there for addicts to ever get clean?

I say this with the utmost sincerity:

Fuck you and moralistic donkey you rode in on.

People are dying. Scores and scores of people.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

I say this with the utmost sincerity:

Fuck you and moralistic donkey you rode in on.

People are dying. Scores and scores of people.

Spare me the poverty pimp sanctimony.

They choose to use drugs. Yes, it is a choice. Millions of people go through life with mental issues or histories of physical abuse without turning to drugs. It's insulting to every one of them every time some poverty pimps try to excuse a junkies behaviour by bringing those things up.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Spare me the poverty pimp sanctimony.

They choose to use drugs. Yes, it is a choice. Millions of people go through life with mental issues or histories of physical abuse without turning to drugs. It's insulting to every one of them every time some poverty pimps try to excuse a junkies behaviour by bringing those things up.

News stories show us that all sorts of people are dying from recreational drugs that are tainted with other substances. Most of them aren't poor, or living in the Downtown Eastside.

Throwing around terms like 'poverty pimps' to describe politicians, the Chief Medical Officer, the Premier and the Chief of Police (who all support the decriminalization of drugs) doesn't add anything to the current debate - it just shows a complete lack of understanding.

[Vin]

Since Vancouver is basically an American city Wannabe, perhaps we are moving in the direction of NYC?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-Upper-West-marking-mass-evacuation.html

The NYC exodus: Fleet of moving trucks arrive in the Upper West Side and dozens wait in line to hire U-Hauls as residents reeling from lockdown and the surge in homeless people call it quits
* U-Haul trucks and other moving vehicles were seen out in abundance on Manhattan’s troubled Upper West Side across the weekend
* The seeming exodus comes just days after it was revealed residents in the area are planning to sue the city for moving homeless people into nearby hotels
* While the end of the month often proves to be a busy moving period, Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa said he believes a 'mass evacuation' is in progress
* Long lines were seen outside of a number of U-Haul stations in the neighborhood across Saturday and Sunday, with moving vans lining residential streets
* The mayoral candidate, who often leads Guardian Angel patrols of the area, said he saw numerous moving trucks ‘stacked up’ down his street Saturday

Time to be tough on this issue or it will DEFINITELY go out of hand.

DTES turned into a ghetto from the prime commercial centre of the past because we let it. Now we are letting it spread to other parts of downtown. When will people wake up?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Changing City

News stories show us that all sorts of people are dying from recreational drugs that are tainted with other substances. Most of them aren't poor, or living in the Downtown Eastside.

Throwing around terms like 'poverty pimps' to describe politicians, the Chief Medical Officer, the Premier and the Chief of Police (who all support the decriminalization of drugs) doesn't add anything to the current debate - it just shows a complete lack of understanding.

A complete lack of understanding is what Vancouver/this crisis is going to get in increasing quantity.

Were not there yet, but people are past being interested in the nuances of the situation and getting close to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

That's what happens when poverty activist turn public opinion against the very people who they are supposed to be serving.

The real tragedy is yet to come - its on the hands of all you non profits and poverty activists.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Vin

Since Vancouver is basically an American city Wannabe, perhaps we are moving in the direction of NYC?



Time to be tough on this issue or it will DEFINITELY go out of hand.

DTES turned into a ghetto from the prime commercial centre of the past because we let it. Now we are letting it spread to other parts of downtown. When will people wake up?

I have no idea where this idea of buying hotels comes from.

LA, Vancouver, NYC.

Who came up with the idea to buy hotels for tens of millions of dollars to house homeless addicts in?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Spare me the poverty pimp sanctimony.

They choose to use drugs. Yes, it is a choice. Millions of people go through life with mental issues or histories of physical abuse without turning to drugs. It's insulting to every one of them every time some poverty pimps try to excuse a junkies behaviour by bringing those things up.

My cousin died last year. Go fuck yourself.

The only one who sounds sanctimonious here is you with your mindless judgemental drivel.

I hope that in your darkest hour, your moment of need, someone shows you the same disrespect you show your fellow human beings.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

News stories show us that all sorts of people are dying from recreational drugs that are tainted with other substances. Most of them aren't poor, or living in the Downtown Eastside.

Throwing around terms like 'poverty pimps' to describe politicians, the Chief Medical Officer, the Premier and the Chief of Police (who all support the decriminalization of drugs) doesn't add anything to the current debate - it just shows a complete lack of understanding.

Yes, and they will post the same stupid responses over and over again. Why, who knows.

Addicts are real people, not just some issue to project onto your own life's miseries.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

My cousin died last year. Go fuck yourself.

The only one who sounds sanctimonious here is you with your mindless judgemental drivel.

I hope that in your darkest hour, your moment of need, someone shows you the same disrespect you show your fellow human beings.

Sorry for your loss but the message is clear then: Don't do drugs.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Sorry for your loss but the message is clear then: Don't do drugs.

Duh.

But that is not something clearly understood by people using them. Even when they do know that it can still be very hard to stop for many reasons beyond your grasp.

That may be a messy reality that you don’t want to deal with, so keep your mouth shut and talk about topics you actually have the capacity, patience, and desire to understand rather than shitting on people about whom you couldn’t care less.

When my aunt cries herself to sleep at night, the last thing she needs to know is that there are assholes like you out there to make her feel worse about someone she deeply loved.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Duh.

But that is not something clearly understand by people using them. Even when they do know that it can still be very hard to stop for many reasons beyond your grasp.

That may be a messy reality that you don’t want to deal with, so keep your mouth shut and talk about topics you actually have the capacity, patience, and desire to understand rather than shitting on people about whom you couldn’t care less.

When my aunt cries herself to sleep at night, the last thing she needs to know is that there are assholes like you out there to make her feel worse about someone she deeply loved.

We need to find a way to limit that suffering, not to enable it. Further we need to limit the damage spread from the suffering of mentally ill and addicts.

If the addict has no clear understanding of the danger - they are displaying an inability to make rational decisions.

At some point rational individuals need to be empowered to make those rational decisions to limit damage on all levels, personal and societal.

Obviously nuance here is important, people in the suburbs are ODing too - its not just a DTES problem.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by rofina

Obviously nuance here is important, people in the suburbs are ODing too - its not just a DTES problem.

It's absolutely not just a DTES problem - despite the high concentration of known drug users and the readily available supply there. That's another of the simplistic misunderstandings of some commentators - 'everything would be OK if we cleaned up the DTES'. The report on deaths involving illicit drugs shows that less than a quarter of deaths in BC were in the City of Vancouver (and not all are in the DTES, by any means). The most likely place that someone might die in Vancouver Coastal Health (which includes the City of Vancouver) is 'other residence' - which would be an SRO, or similar accommodation. Even then, someone is more likely to die in another location - the most likely place is in a private residence. That's true in all the other Health Authorities - around two thirds of deaths involving illicit drugs are in a private house; not outside, not in a shelter.

Per capita, Vancouver has a lower death rate than many other places, including Northern Health. It's a problem across the whole of BC, and Canada, and covid has made the supply of drugs less safe, so the other substances being added has made the drugs available more likely to kill a user. That's why police, local politicians and doctors are calling for a safe supply. 'Don't use drugs' has never worked - but particularly today, it's a death sentence.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's absolutely not just a DTES problem - despite the high concentration of known drug users and the readily available supply there. That's another of the simplistic misunderstandings of some commentators - 'everything would be OK if we cleaned up the DTES'. The report on deaths involving illicit drugs shows that less than a quarter of deaths in BC were in the City of Vancouver (and not all are in the DTES, by any means). The most likely place that someone might die in Vancouver Coastal Health (which includes the City of Vancouver) is 'other residence' - which would be an SRO, or similar accommodation. Even then, someone is more likely to die in another location - the most likely place is in a private residence. That's true in all the other Health Authorities - around two thirds of deaths involving illicit drugs are in a private house; not outside, not in a shelter.

Per capita, Vancouver has a lower death rate than many other places, including Northern Health. It's a problem across the whole of BC, and Canada, and covid has made the supply of drugs less safe, so the other substances being added has made the drugs available more likely to kill a user. That's why police, local politicians and doctors are calling for a safe supply. 'Don't use drugs' has never worked - but particularly today, it's a death sentence.

Great post.

My cousin died in his own apartment, had just been laid off from a steady job, was not a known user, at least to most of his family.

Then you get a call one day that they’ve overdosed. It’s shattering and breaks your illusion that this is someone else’s problem, that you can comfortably ignore it.

This is not an uncommon story.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Great post.

My cousin died in his own apartment, had just been laid off from a steady job, was not a known user, at least to most of his family.

Then you get a call one day that they’ve overdosed. It’s shattering and breaks your illusion that this is someone else’s problem, that you can comfortably ignore it.

This is not an uncommon story.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

We lost a really good friend almost two years ago to a tainted supply. He also wasn't a heavy user, but one night he ODed on fentanyl at the front door of his apartment in the Westend. He was an extremely talented musician, amazing father, and a caring and kind friend, but had fallen on some hard times due to bouts of severe depression. He made a mistake by doing some laced shit, and it cost him his life. It completely shocked our circle of friends. Absolutely destroyed my friend who was with him at the time. He's still a mess from it.