VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Those subsidies of non-Corridor routes are nothing short of obscene.

VIA has been forced to run a 21st century rail system on a 19th century business model. Get the politics out of VIA and let them just cancel every single route outside the Corridor. VIA has gone, due to politics, from a rail company to a make-work project and it is the consumers that re paying the price. If certain regions or towns don't like it then too damn bad, it's not everyone else's responsibility to keep them solvent.

As for tourism, the government and VIA have a role to play but not at any price. VIA should take the average subsidy nationwide and simply declare that any service above that level must be paid for by the respective provinces, towns, businesses, resorts, or preferably a combination of all of them. Then you would find out whether they really want a train service and if so are they willing to put their money where their mouths are.

It is obscene we subsidize oil companies to sell our oil. It is obscene we subsidize air carriers to fly people and profit from it. It is obscene we paid for a highway only to have it run by a private company for 99 years.

It is obscene that every km of public road is paid for by us....

That is the same argument, and it makes me think you are someone who deserves the saying "Ok Boomer."

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Glad to hear you find my contributions helpful and I can assure you I'm also learning from the ideas and concerns people post here! I fully agree about the Canadian and that its subsidy ($48 million in 2018) was well invested taxpayer money, but more about that in a separate post...

I'm glad you found the thread and I think I speak for all the fellow train nerds on this board that your posts are very welcome. You have the patience of a saint! Hopefully enough people are seeing your work that it makes a difference.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Those subsidies of non-Corridor routes are nothing short of obscene.

VIA has been forced to run a 21st century rail system on a 19th century business model. Get the politics out of VIA and let them just cancel every single route outside the Corridor. VIA has gone, due to politics, from a rail company to a make-work project and it is the consumers that re paying the price. If certain regions or towns don't like it then too damn bad, it's not everyone else's responsibility to keep them solvent.

As for tourism, the government and VIA have a role to play but not at any price. VIA should take the average subsidy nationwide and simply declare that any service above that level must be paid for by the respective provinces, towns, businesses, resorts, or preferably a combination of all of them. Then you would find out whether they really want a train service and if so are they willing to put their money where their mouths are.

LOL, whatever, Troll!


*Public Service Announcement*

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

In the five years in which I've been on forums like this one, there has been only one person I've called a "Troll" and that is "ssiguy" (or "ssiguy2" on Urban Toronto). He has never shown any interest in actually engaging into a discussion and to weigh his arguments against those of other posters. Instead, he jumps into a conversation out of nowhere, vomits one of his ever-same opinions onto you, then waits for reactions, to which he will re-vomit the same opinion just phrased slightly differently and will then disappear just as fast as he appeared, once anyone tries to point out the glaring holes in his "arguments".

I've tried it countless times - here, but even more often on Urban Toronto - and I haven't seen him once acknowledge any argument he was presented with. I have never seen him engage in an open discussion with anyone, he just loses interest to respond at some point and just disappears as suddenly as he arrived, just to re-vomit exactly the same opinion a few weeks or months later, or whenever the discussion happens to again remotely touch whatever point he pretends to make.

So before anyone else feels provoked to respond, please go to my post #468 (i.e. 11 posts and 23 hours before he posted his) and ask yourself whether he has even bothered looking at it before posting his own post. You are all free to decide how you want to spend your free time, but I'm not going to waste anymore of it by actually attempting on debunking the same baseless claims for the one-hundredth (and most certainly: not the last) time and will instead simply call him out for being a Troll whenever he again surfaces to sabotage whatever discussion we are trying to have...

*End*

Originally Posted by milomilo

I'm glad you found the thread and I think I speak for all the fellow train nerds on this board that your posts are very welcome. You have the patience of a saint! Hopefully enough people are seeing your work that it makes a difference.

So much about “patience of a saint”, I guess, but this unfortunately really needed to be said...

Have a great evening, everyone!

[ssiguy]

If you consider me a troll because I disagree with you then I am happily guilty as charged. As our first Trudeau once said "I've been called worse things by better people."

I can't remember ever having even a notice of inappropriate behavior on this forum on the 15 years I have been on it and after the 7000 posts I have made. I always endeavor to appreciate other people's views no matter how much I may disagree with them and I have NEVER lowered myself to personal attacks and have NEVER used foul or abrasive language.

I have had many a conversation with people on issues we are diametrically opposed upon and yet it has always been done in a respectful manner. Can you say the same? If you don't appreciate my contribution to the forum feel free to ignore me...……..I'll muddle thru.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

So much about “patience of a saint”, I guess, but this unfortunately really needed to be said...

Have a great evening, everyone!

It's all good man and I would actually have to agree with you.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

If you consider me a troll because I disagree with you then I am happily guilty as charged. As our first Trudeau once said "I've been called worse things by better people."

I can't remember ever having even a notice of inappropriate behavior on this forum on the 15 years I have been on it and after the 7000 posts I have made. I always endeavor to appreciate other people's views no matter how much I may disagree with them and I have NEVER lowered myself to personal attacks and have NEVER used foul or abrasive language.

I have had many a conversation with people on issues we are diametrically opposed upon and yet it has always been done in a respectful manner. Can you say the same? If you don't appreciate my contribution to the forum feel free to ignore me...……..I'll muddle thru.

It isn't about opinion, but about attitude. This forum is about debate and respecting others opinion, but you need to have an open mind and read other people's replies. If we don't convince you to change your opinion, that is fine, but try to at least counter other people's arguments and not take the attitude of "don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up."

[Coldrsx]

Just booked a trip from Edmonton to Vancouver at the end of the month. I have always wanted to experience the mountain journey in winter and at the moment it is ~50% off. Decided on a 1 person cabin, cause, well, why not right and I wanted access to The Park Car.

[Aylmer]

I booked a berth to Winnipeg next week to visit some family. At $360 at some killer points rewards, I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was about the same price as a one-way flight from Ottawa. It'll take quite a bit longer of course, but I'm actually looking forward to having some peace and calm.

However, I was thinking about how the Canadian could be a whole lot more convenient as a transportation product.

1. Coordinate a Sudbury bus connection.
   With the morning departure from Toronto, I have to leave Ottawa on the Tuesday afternoon and stay in TO overnight. I'm lucky enough to have some friends there, but it means that my total travel time is effectively one night longer. Trips from Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal, and points east could be cut in half simply by having VIA coordinate with Greyhound/Northland to have a bus that leaves Ottawa and meets up with the Canadian at Sudbury Junction, allowing me to leave Wednesday morning instead of Tuesday afternoon.
   
   
2. A Thursday or Friday departure
   For anyone with a usual workweek, the Sunday and Wednesday departures seem almost perfectly timed to be the least convenient days to leave. A Thursday or Friday departure - especially one in the afternoon - allows a trip which takes full advantage of the weekend and minimizes the time off required.
   

Of course these minor adjustments wouldn't make the train as convenient as flying, and I understand that the Canadian offers more of a tourism product than strictly transportation. But with even a few small tweaks, it could be that much more of a viable option for domestic tourism/transportation.

[swimmer_spe]

There are many stations in Canada that go bu the name of Union Station. The ones that are not train stations are now repurposed, and may not even have a track to them. But, there are 2 operating Union Stations.

We all know of the one in Toronto. It serves almost 20 different lines(GO, Via, TTC).

The other one, is in Winnipeg. It serves.... 2. Not even the local RT serves it. It is a sad state of affairs when it is barely used due to politics.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I booked a berth to Winnipeg next week to visit some family. At $360 at some killer points rewards, I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was about the same price as a one-way flight from Ottawa. It'll take quite a bit longer of course, but I'm actually looking forward to having some peace and calm.

However, I was thinking about how the Canadian could be a whole lot more convenient as a transportation product.

1. Coordinate a Sudbury bus connection.
   With the morning departure from Toronto, I have to leave Ottawa on the Tuesday afternoon and stay in TO overnight. I'm lucky enough to have some friends there, but it means that my total travel time is effectively one night longer. Trips from Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal, and points east could be cut in half simply by having VIA coordinate with Greyhound/Northland to have a bus that leaves Ottawa and meets up with the Canadian at Sudbury Junction, allowing me to leave Wednesday morning instead of Tuesday afternoon.
   
   
2. A Thursday or Friday departure
   For anyone with a usual workweek, the Sunday and Wednesday departures seem almost perfectly timed to be the least convenient days to leave. A Thursday or Friday departure - especially one in the afternoon - allows a trip which takes full advantage of the weekend and minimizes the time off required.
   

Of course these minor adjustments wouldn't make the train as convenient as flying, and I understand that the Canadian offers more of a tourism product than strictly transportation. But with even a few small tweaks, it could be that much more of a viable option for domestic tourism/transportation.

A friend of mine wants to visit me by trail from Montreal. I live in Sudbury. When he realized that you cannot do it in a weekend, if if the trains are running on time, it annoyed him.

This brings me to the fact that outside of the Corridor, train service is an after thought. If VIA could dump them, they would, and with good reason. If the government allowed VIA more funding to build the ridership, they could. Instead we are stuck in the low ridership->lack of funding->cut service->low ridership circle.

I will always argue that all routes should be once a day each way. That is the only way ridership can be built.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

A friend of mine wants to visit me by trail from Montreal. I live in Sudbury. When he realized that you cannot do it in a weekend, if if the trains are running on time, it annoyed him.

This brings me to the fact that outside of the Corridor, train service is an after thought. If VIA could dump them, they would, and with good reason. If the government allowed VIA more funding to build the ridership, they could. Instead we are stuck in the low ridership->lack of funding->cut service->low ridership circle.

I will always argue that all routes should be once a day each way. That is the only way ridership can be built.

I suppose your friend could take a train part of the way - Montreal to Ottawa, and then Ontario Northland bus the rest of the way.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I suppose your friend could take a train part of the way - Montreal to Ottawa, and then Ontario Northland bus the rest of the way.

The point was his opportunity to ride the Canadian.

A simple train ride that if the schedule was better would be doable.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The point was his opportunity to ride the Canadian.

A simple train ride that if the schedule was better would be doable.

I don't see "the opportunity to ride the Canadian" as a good enough reason on its own to justify the cost of increasing the frequency when there are other transportation options (both Ontario Northland and Greyhound offer bus service from both Ottawa and Toronto to Sudbury). Trains are very expensive to run so unless there is high demand to amortize the cost over many people, or there are no roads serving the community, buses make far more sense.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There are many stations in Canada that go bu the name of Union Station. The ones that are not train stations are now repurposed, and may not even have a track to them. But, there are 2 operating Union Stations.

We all know of the one in Toronto. It serves almost 20 different lines(GO, Via, TTC).

The other one, is in Winnipeg. It serves.... 2. Not even the local RT serves it. It is a sad state of affairs when it is barely used due to politics.

Hey, at least Winnipeg kept its Union Station. Saint John tore its Union Station down in the 70s.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't see "the opportunity to ride the Canadian" as a good enough reason on its own to justify the cost of increasing the frequency when there are other transportation options (both Ontario Northland and Greyhound offer bus service from both Ottawa and Toronto to Sudbury). Trains are very expensive to run so unless there is high demand to amortize the cost over many people, or there are no roads serving the community, buses make far more sense.

The point you missed - if he got on the first train from Montreal to Toronto he would miss the Canadian. The Canadian leaves around 9am. This means that maybe there should be an even earlier train to Toronto from Montreal. I would be that there would be demand for a train getting into Toronto from Montreal by 9am.

Yes, I would love to see a daily for all of Via, but adding one more train earlier to the Corridor is more feasible.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Just booked a trip from Edmonton to Vancouver at the end of the month. I have always wanted to experience the mountain journey in winter and at the moment it is ~50% off. Decided on a 1 person cabin, cause, well, why not right and I wanted access to The Park Car.

It is a beautiful trip. I think you're going to love it. The 1 person cabin (aka roomette) is the trainiest possible accommodation there is... that'll make more sense when you're on board.

Let us know how it goes!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There are many stations in Canada that go bu the name of Union Station. The ones that are not train stations are now repurposed, and may not even have a track to them. But, there are 2 operating Union Stations.

We all know of the one in Toronto. It serves almost 20 different lines(GO, Via, TTC).

The other one, is in Winnipeg. It serves.... 2. Not even the local RT serves it. It is a sad state of affairs when it is barely used due to politics.

There are at least theoretical plans to eventually built a RT ROW through the station (it currently runs on the street in front of the station), but who knows when that will happen. Even if it did though, there would be next to nil connection activity between local transit and VIA Rail.

FWIW there is no magic to the Union Station name... it just refers to the fact that GTP, NTR and CNoR built the station together instead of building separate terminals (CPR had its own similarly-sized terminal on the northern edge of downtown Winnipeg - it still stands today but is no longer used by any railway). NP and GN used it as well when there was still rail service to the US. You could in principle have a small shed in the middle of nowhere where two railways meet and that could be a "union station" as well.

The fact that there is little service to Winnipeg's Union Station just reflects the decline in VIA's western services over the years. There are currently 8 trains a week coming and going on two routes. Contrast that with 1989 when there would have been at least 40 a week over four routes. Those numbers would go up significantly with each decade you go back.

[Dengler Avenue]

So that’s why they’re called Union Stations.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The point you missed - if he got on the first train from Montreal to Toronto he would miss the Canadian. The Canadian leaves around 9am. This means that maybe there should be an even earlier train to Toronto from Montreal. I would be that there would be demand for a train getting into Toronto from Montreal by 9am.

Yes, I would love to see a daily for all of Via, but adding one more train earlier to the Corridor is more feasible.

That connection would likely be possible after HFR, but back in November you said:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why should VIA keep focusing on the Corridor? It is well served.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So that’s why they’re called Union Stations.

Yup. Some cities, like Vancouver, never had a Union Station. CP had their station on W Cordova St (now the Skytrain/Seabus Waterfront Station), CN had Pacific Central Station (now used by VIA) and the PGE had their own station in North Vancouver at what is now Lonsdale Quay.