Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Orlando]

I hate to drop a bomb (get it? bomb...nuclear) on this nuclear power discussion, but can we move this to another thread? This is an off-topic discussion.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Marvland

So yeah, it takes a village, but the only BASELOAD capable power source that is low-carbon is nuclear.

Ehhh.....wind/solar coupled with storage is advancing so fast that I don't think that statement will be valid in 5 years. It's scary how quickly the utility markets are being up-ended. I can foresee the end of spinning reserve and other baseload credits in the ISO/RTO markets over the next decade due to the inherent advantage of energy storage and instant capacity response.

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by airhero

Renderings for this project were uploaded. I believe it was mentioned that Lowe building a 20+ story building was a pipe dream. Apparently they agreed in the end. Plans are for 8 stories now. 175 Units.

6th and Main:





I think it looks great.

Great looking project. Eight stories is not bad on that end of Downtown. I'm sure there will be adequate power to keep the lights on, even if we host another Olympic Games. In a related note, does anyone have any info on the meeting that was held on the Fleet Block this past week? Can't find anything about it online.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

A nuclear power plant designed to modern standards and best practices as opposed to one built to Woodstock standards.

Is there any waste?

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Absolutely that would be or the giant parking lot northeast of the Delta Center.

This might be a sport I'd like to see also...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2gwFkCU1Q4

and this https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=par...892DEEC15FD9BF3530EE892DEEC&&FORM=VRDGAR

I imagine the parking lot north east of the Delta Center/vivint arena would be the location of the medals plaza again.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Yes, modern designs are much safer, and it's true that nuclear releases no greenhouse gas emissions, but to say that there's "no better choice" is really disingenuous. Even in this article alone, the pro-nuclear movement is still skeptical of new nuclear plant generation - it seems to be more of an effort to keep existing nuclear plants alive until we can realistically fill that gap with renewable energy.

In addition, no matter how efficient and safe nuclear power plants become, you still have to mine the uranium needed to produce it, and store the waste that comes from it. Yes, better than coal and natural gas, but I hesitate to jump on the "environmentally friendly" bandwagon. Not to mention nuclear is EXTREMELY expensive, and will always be extremely expensive.

I'm not anti-nuclear. I actually agree that we should focus on keeping existing ones around, and I wouldn't want to shut down the idea of building new nuclear plants entirely - but solar is the way to go. At least until (or if) we can actually create sustainable fusion energy.

There's a chart in this article that shows emissions going up after a nuclear plant in California was shut down - but it only took about 4-5 years for that increase to be wiped away by increased renewable production. Nuclear shouldn't be dismissed, but it's simply not accurate to say there's no better choice.

There is no 100% safe, 100% environmentally-friendly form of energy production, but as a whole, solar is safer and it's infitinitely sustainable. And the technology is getting better at a rapid rate, so the amount of land needed for solar will go down over time.

This

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I hate to drop a bomb (get it? bomb...nuclear) on this nuclear power discussion, but can we move this to another thread? This is an off-topic discussion.

Oops, a little late to the conversation.

[Marvland]

The Berkadia multifamily pipeline for SLC Q3 shows 24,000 units. Note it includes Logan to south Utah County. It includes leased-up, under construction, planned and prospective projects. These pipeline numbers have been insane and continue to be insane. Gobbling up infill, chomp chomp. Handy little map on it too:

Berkadia Salt Lake City New Construction & Proposed Multifamily Projects

[ajiuO]

The other option I don’t ever hear getting talked about is hydro electric. Yeah building dams would probably kill the great Salt Lake.... but who cares. The great Salt Lake is probably one of the biggest waste of water on this entire planet. I think it would be a lot better to build dams that can be used to turn turbines for electricity... and also store it for consumption.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

The other option I don’t ever hear getting talked about is hydro electric. Yeah building dams would probably kill the great Salt Lake.... but who cares. The great Salt Lake is probably one of the biggest waste of water on this entire planet. I think it would be a lot better to build dams that can be used to turn turbines for electricity... and also store it for consumption.

Everybody on the WF who would have to breathe the heavy metals kicked up from a dry GSL dust storm cares. The millions (yes millions) of North American Birds that depend on the GSL for habitat care. Alta ski resort that depends on the lake to provide powder care. Las Angeles California that depends on the lake to to temper their water supply after the humid air coming in from the Pacific has lost much of its humidity over the Sierra Nevada cares.

Srsly I'm not sure anyone here has ever posted something as ignorant as you just did

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Marvland

The Berkadia multifamily pipeline for SLC Q3 shows 24,000 units. Note it includes Logan to south Utah County. It includes leased-up, under construction, planned and prospective projects. These pipeline numbers have been insane and continue to be insane. Gobbling up infill, chomp chomp. Handy little map on it too:

Berkadia Salt Lake City New Construction & Proposed Multifamily Projects

I agree that the numbers are huge. There are a few things I noticed though in some of their other reports.

The 2017 annual report has a forecast for the 2018 year. In the 2018 forecast it states:

The heightened apartment demand last year is expected to trend downward toward the historical norm as operators record net absorption of 2,045 units this year.

While this is still a good amount of absorption, I loved seeing the Q3 - 2018 Update and the numbers it provided.

The Year to Date (through September 2018) net absorption for apartments is 2,394. This is already 14.5% higher than the forecast for the entire year. With projects still being completed for occupancy in Q4, it could be possible to see a 20% increase in absorption over the forecast. Additionally, through Q3 2018, there have only been 1,977 units added within the market area.

Occupancy rates are still over 95% though dropping slowly, 0.2% in 1 year.

Of the planned projects, 20 of the 45 listed are located within Salt Lake City and 14 of those are listed as Downtown (approx. 2,200 units). For the prospective projects 11 of the 32 listed are within Salt Lake City and 6 are listed as Downtown (approx. 1,100 units).

If all the projects listed are built as listed, we could see an estimated 7,500 residents added to downtown in the next few years without any other projects being added. While their definition of Downtown is slightly larger than most of ours (including Trolley Square), this is still a large number in such a short period of time and would spur additional projects.

One note, the site and numbers do not include the 6th & Main project which would add and additional project and 175 units to the counts for Downtown.

[Liberty Wellsian]

The Rice-Eccles expansion video includes neither the Hoberman Arch nor the Olympic cauldron. It does include that iconic SLC olympic sign you see at all venues.

There are 2 stains on SLC's Olympic legacy. The bribery scandal, which we can do little about now, and our treatment of the Hoberman Arch and cauldron.

Does anybody know, now that we may be getting another games, if there I'd any plan for a proper SLC Olympic park? One that might include the cauldron and or a restored Hoberman arch.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

The other option I don’t ever hear getting talked about is hydro electric. Yeah building dams would probably kill the great Salt Lake.... but who cares. The great Salt Lake is probably one of the biggest waste of water on this entire planet. I think it would be a lot better to build dams that can be used to turn turbines for electricity... and also store it for consumption.

People using excessive amounts of water on irrigation is a waste. The Great Salt Lake is not a waste. It’s a complex and delicate ecosystems that impacts our regional and especially our local climate in a number of ways.

Liberty Wellsian already provided plenty of reasons the lake is enormously important. There are many examples of bodies of water around the world being drained or drying up and the far reaching effects that occurred as a result. One of my favorite examples is Lake Texcoco in Mexico City, but the most prominent is probably the Aral Sea in Central Asia. It’s basically gone now. The ecosystem it supported completely collapsed and it has had devastating effects on the regional agriculture and climate. The loss of the Great Salt Lake could be equally devastating.

There are so many great options for power generation I don’t think hydroelectric is very necessary to discuss.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

The other option I don’t ever hear getting talked about is hydro electric. Yeah building dams would probably kill the great Salt Lake.... but who cares. The great Salt Lake is probably one of the biggest waste of water on this entire planet. I think it would be a lot better to build dams that can be used to turn turbines for electricity... and also store it for consumption.

Assuming you're kidding here. The GSL is one of the most important inland bird estuaries on Earth. It is the most important rookery for Pelicans on the continent. Dozens of other species rook there. Millions of migratory birds use it as a critical stop. We are named after it. 3/4 of all wetlands in the state of Utah are there and there is literally nothing else like it on the planet.

[Orlando]

Guys, seriously, take this off this thread, please.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

The Rice-Eccles expansion video includes neither the Hoberman Arch nor the Olympic cauldron. It does include that iconic SLC olympic sign you see at all venues.

There are 2 stains on SLC's Olympic legacy. The bribery scandal, which we can do little about now, and our treatment of the Hoberman Arch and cauldron.

Does anybody know, now that we may be getting another games, if there I'd any plan for a proper SLC Olympic park? One that might include the cauldron and or a restored Hoberman arch.

Gallivan Winter Olympic Plaza? Like Stenar said (I believe), the cauldron could replace the rock on a stick. A replica of Hoberman arch could also live somewhere in there as well. ...or perhaps part of the international peace gardens could become an olympic park, or maybe part of Liberty Park could be used.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

The Rice-Eccles expansion video includes neither the Hoberman Arch nor the Olympic cauldron. It does include that iconic SLC olympic sign you see at all venues.

There are 2 stains on SLC's Olympic legacy. The bribery scandal, which we can do little about now, and our treatment of the Hoberman Arch and cauldron.

Does anybody know, now that we may be getting another games, if there I'd any plan for a proper SLC Olympic park? One that might include the cauldron and or a restored Hoberman arch.

Mark Harlan said that there hasn't been a decision made about the cauldron yet, which is the only reason it's not in the rendering. They want to keep it at the stadium but they need permission in order to move it.

I know they moved the Hoberman Arch a few years ago and I'm not sure what became of it.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Mark Harlan said that there hasn't been a decision made about the cauldron yet, which is the only reason it's not in the rendering. They want to keep it at the stadium but they need permission in order to move it.

I know they moved the Hoberman Arch a few years ago and I'm not sure what became of it.

Hoberman Arch was put in an outdoor lot for storage surrounded by fencing. Some people hopped the fence stole much of the arch for scrap metal, so most of it has been scrapped and will need to be replicated, but there are no plans to do so. Don't know why they took it down in the first place.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Makid

I agree that the numbers are huge. There are a few things I noticed though in some of their other reports.

The 2017 annual report has a forecast for the 2018 year. In the 2018 forecast it states:



While this is still a good amount of absorption, I loved seeing the Q3 - 2018 Update and the numbers it provided.

The Year to Date (through September 2018) net absorption for apartments is 2,394. This is already 14.5% higher than the forecast for the entire year. With projects still being completed for occupancy in Q4, it could be possible to see a 20% increase in absorption over the forecast. Additionally, through Q3 2018, there have only been 1,977 units added within the market area.

Occupancy rates are still over 95% though dropping slowly, 0.2% in 1 year.

Of the planned projects, 20 of the 45 listed are located within Salt Lake City and 14 of those are listed as Downtown (approx. 2,200 units). For the prospective projects 11 of the 32 listed are within Salt Lake City and 6 are listed as Downtown (approx. 1,100 units).

If all the projects listed are built as listed, we could see an estimated 7,500 residents added to downtown in the next few years without any other projects being added. While their definition of Downtown is slightly larger than most of ours (including Trolley Square), this is still a large number in such a short period of time and would spur additional projects.

One note, the site and numbers do not include the 6th & Main project which would add and additional project and 175 units to the counts for Downtown.

You're right. We are watching a fundamental transformation of downtown. Hopefully the pattern holds up. The prospective projects in the Berkadia report are hit and miss. The Cottonwood Mall site, now delayed indefinitely, listing 850 units sticks out. One thing, it shows the Trolley Square redevelopment as under construction. Did that break ground? I do think the classic definition of downtown needs to be expanded to include things like Trolley, Central Ninth, Marmalade and even North Temple. I feel like the Downtown Alliance is really just the CBD Alliance. Downtown is expanding fast.

BTW the original link to the Berkadia report is dead now. HERE is another link.

[Orlando]

I wish that map was live and interactive. Seattle has a very useful one: http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/shapingseattle/map.aspx