Canadian Airport Thread - Page 343

zahav · #**6841** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

ADM presser ref. their 150th new destination, Vienna.

Highlighted the interesting bits

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/files/2017/2018-10-03%20150e%20destination_ENG_R.pdf

Vancouver has narrowed the gap in international actually, YUL has grown by 8.4% YTD while Vancouver is up 13% YTD. It's interesting they quote YVR comparisons twice in that article (and weirdly also Boston?). Not really sure why either of those airports are comparables for the article's purpose

nname · #**6842** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 10:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav

Vancouver has narrowed the gap in international actually, YUL has grown by 8.4% YTD while Vancouver is up 13% YTD. It's interesting they quote YVR comparisons twice in that article (and weirdly also Boston?). Not really sure why either of those airports are comparables for the article's purpose

Well, I guess YVR is the airport YUL looks up to, because it's the next one up in passenger volume? I assume if YYC is writing that article, then YUL will be all over the places.

As for BOS, not too sure... the closest major US city?

But then if you read between the lines, it actually sounds bad though (for a person who don't really follows airport stats). Basically, 41% of YUL is only half a million more than 28% of YVR...??

LeftCoaster · #**6843** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav

Doesn't look like it. I would rather connect through DUB or LHR to get there, going through YYZ is so out of the way. That's the case for most European destinations, makes way more sense for Western Canada to connect in Europe than in YYZ or YUL

KEF is the clear winner here. Connecting through YYZ or YUL is just so out of the way I can't imagine that being anyone's first choice so it'd have to be pretty low fare to make it worth it. Dublin is definitely the second best choice, so hopefully that one remains!

Air Transat is really abandoning Western Canada, which surprises me a bit since Eastern seaboard to Europe is a bloodbath right now, whereas fares from the west seem much higher. I'm sure they know what they're doing though.

I'd expect AMS, CDG and MAN are next on the chopping block. AMS and CDG are not too concerning as I'm sure KLM or AF would be happy to step in to fill the void. MAN on the other hand has no clear incumbent. Maybe Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook? There seems to be a decent market there so I'd imagine someone would want to step in once Transat drops it.

The Chemist · #**6844** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 10:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YYC-CDG seems like a sure bet for summer 2019. Slow takeover of LGW as well. We'll see what happens.

Interested to see if they will go to Asia at all in the first year. I dont think so, but If they do, it's ICN or NRT.

ICN / NRT over China? I doubt it. Personally I'm holding out hope for PVG. It's the one of the biggest hubs in Asia outside of the two that are already served from Calgary (NRT and PEK), so I don't think it's totally out of the question.

nname · #**6845** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist

ICN / NRT over China? I doubt it. Personally I'm holding out hope for PVG. It's the one of the biggest hubs in Asia outside of the two that are already served from Calgary (NRT and PEK), so I don't think it's totally out of the question.

PVG and PEK's slot are hard to get, so unless WS got help MU or CZ, they would probably end up with no slot or horrible arrival/departure time.

PEK is also being penalized right now for poor OTP, so going there is probably out of the question for now, unless WS applied super super early.

Also, AC is selling YYC-PVG through YVR for as low as $585 round-trip right now. Now much more would they willing pay for a direct flight? Note that WS's 789 have more seats to fill compared to AC's 789.

thenoflyzone · #**6846** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 11:41 PM**

Exactly what nname said. Dont see PEK or PVG, at least not in 2019. If WS is smart, they'll stear clear of East Asia altoghether during their first year of 787 operations.
Speaking of slots, wonder if WS will eventually go for slots at LHR. It's almost a must, if they want to cement themselves as a full service carrier.

thenoflyzone · #**6847** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 11:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

KEF is the clear winner here. Connecting through YYZ or YUL is just so out of the way I can't imagine that being anyone's first choice so it'd have to be pretty low fare to make it worth it. Dublin is definitely the second best choice, so hopefully that one remains!

you cant connect YVR-DUB-GLA on a single ticket. So KEF is your only "short" option, really. Second best is YYZ (summer seasonal service to GLA) or LHR (year round service to GLA).

YVR-East coast-Europe is no more out of the way than East coast-YVR-Asia. Both scenarios are done by millions of people a year. Clearly your "out of the way" concept is a non issue.

thenoflyzone · #**6848** Posted **Oct 9, 2018, 11:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

But then if you read between the lines, it actually sounds bad though

It does....for YVR and BOS.....

Both YVR and BOS are primarily domestic-centric airports. That's not the case at YUL. Quebecers dont need a non stop to Saskatoon or Comox. We rather have Vienna, Bucharest, Venice, Prague etc.

Explains why YUL is on the list of OAG's top 50 megahubs with so few passengers.

Different travel patterns. Speaks volumes to the fact that Quebec has nothing in common with the rest of the country. I'm no separatist, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

Denscity · #**6849** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 12:09 AM**

Last stat I saw showed more international than domestic at yvr.

nname · #**6850** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 12:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

you cant connect YVR-DUB-GLA on a single ticket. So KEF is your only "short" option, really. Second best is YYZ (summer seasonal service to GLA) or LHR (year round service to GLA).

You actually can. YVR-DUB-GLA is bookable with AC... It is super expensive though

thenoflyzone · #**6851** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 1:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

You actually can. YVR-DUB-GLA is bookable with AC... It is super expensive though

Forgot they codeshared with Aer Lingus.

Still, not nearly as convenient as the year round option via KEF.

DrNest · #**6852** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 1:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I'd expect AMS, CDG and MAN are next on the chopping block. AMS and CDG are not too concerning as I'm sure KLM or AF would be happy to step in to fill the void. MAN on the other hand has no clear incumbent. Maybe Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook? There seems to be a decent market there so I'd imagine someone would want to step in once Transat drops it.

Thomas Cook used to fly MAN-YYZ on the 757 a while ago. I'm not sure when it stopped off the top of my head, probably something like 6-7 years ago.
Virgin Atlantic hasn't shown any interest in Canada in a long time. They struggled with loads on the LHR-YYZ route, I'd be surprised if they introduced a MAN-YYZ route. That being said, I'd love to see VIR back at Pearson.

thenoflyzone · #**6853** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 1:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity

Last stat I saw showed more international than domestic at yvr.

Barely, and only since 2016, (and mostly due to the US) .

zahav · #**6854** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 1:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Barely, and only since 2016, (and mostly due to the US) .

Ya the Canadian method of measuring transborder separately is not any kind of accpeted standard for the world. Canadian airports do it because the US is such a monster market and they want to study is independently. But that is inconsequential, international is travel outside a home country, period. The comparisons in the international discussion shouldn't ever exclude transborder. Adding transborder in changes things, YVR is higher than YUL for international traffic. I don't have the full list breakdown but adding transborder adds lots of destinations to YUL's list, probably just as much if not more than YVR (lots and lots of east coast and Florida destinations that YVR doesn't have). But in terms of traffic numbers, YVR still edges out YUL and really the articles that frame it differently are totally misleading to anyone outside of this discussion forum

The list of airlines and destinations is very impressive from YUL and so is the total traffic, that should have been the point of the article. Adding in misleading comparisons to YVR was just bias

hollywoodcory · #**6855** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 2:32 AM**

Edit: never mind

nname · #**6856** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 5:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Edit: never mind

Nah, the information already went to Google Flight.

WS 1/2 YYC-LHR Daily
WS 5/6 YYC-DUB 367
WS 9/10 YYC-CDG x236

Now I wonder if AC really want to cut or reduce YVR-DUB...

thenoflyzone · #**6857** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 12:02 PM**

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...l-and-new-calgary-europe-service-in-s19/

Quote:

WestJet this week (around Tuesday 09OCT18) filed planned Boeing 787-9 international service, scheduled to enter long-haul routes from late-April 2019. The configuration of the 787-9 is J16W28Y260, based on seat map graphics in the GDS. The arrival of Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner also sees the airline launching new nonstop European flights from Calgary.

Reservation for these Boeing 787-9 service will be available as early as Wednesday local time in Calgary.

eff 28APR19 Calgary – London Gatwick
WS001 YYC1920 – 1100+1LGW 789 267
WS001 YYC1945 – 1125+1LGW 789 x267

WS002 LGW1300- 1510YYC 789 1
WS002 LGW1330 – 1540YYC 789 x15
WS002 LGW1350 – 1600YYC 789 5

eff 17MAY19 Calgary – Paris CDG (New route, 3 weekly; 4 weekly from 03JUN19 to 08SEP19)
WS010 YYC1920 – 1210+1CDG 789 x236
WS009 CDG1410 – 1530YYC 789 x347

eff 01JUN19 Calgary – Dublin (New route, 3 weekly; 2 weekly from 11SEP19)
WS006 YYC2045 – 1138+1DUB 789 367
WS005 DUB1345 – 1505YYC 789 147

Additional Boeing 787-9 operating service, including domestic routes, is expected to be filed and available for reservation in the next few weeks.

thenoflyzone · #**6858** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 12:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

WS 1/2 YYC-LHR Daily

I'd be nice if it's LHR, but it seems like it's LGW.

Like I said earlier, WS should think about getting some slots at LHR.

p_xavier · #**6859** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...l-and-new-calgary-europe-service-in-s19/

Well, that was a non-event to say the least...

LeftCoaster · #**6860** Posted **Oct 10, 2018, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Both YVR and BOS are primarily domestic-centric airports. That's not the case at YUL. Quebecers dont need a non stop to Saskatoon or Comox. We rather have Vienna, Bucharest, Venice, Prague etc.

Wow, how sophisticated. I always forget how much more worldly quebecers are than the lowly ROC until these conversations come up. Thanks for reminding me. Us anglos much prefer a week or two in Comox taking in the sights and sounds rather than something foreign and scary like Venice... Did you know they don't even speak English there? The Horrors!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Barely, and only since 2016, (and mostly due to the US) .

Intl will be 28% of PAX at YVR for 2018, only 24% for transborder.

If we want to play that game YUL only has bigger intl numbers because of sun flying. Nothing more sophisticated than an all inclusive in the Dominican. Oh la la.