Sports in Canadian culture

[megadude]

Was anyone following the Canadian Open? I think anyone who had even the most casual interest just knew DJ was going to win before it even started. Twice runner up. Married to Paulina Gretzky. Rocking the 99 Oilers jersey on the Wednesday. Talking about all the support he gets up here. Playing about 45 minutes from his father in law's hometown. #1 player in the world. Potentially the last ever Open at Glen Abbey.

Everything just seemed like it was lining up for him to win. I've never had that feeling before for a golf tournament and have never read so many of the same comments online. And he missed the cut at the British Open last week!

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Will the Canadian Open ever leave Toronto?

Next year! Well not far. It's in Ancaster in Hamilton. And then again like four years after that. In between is anyone's guess right now. Could still be Glen Abbey but it seems inevitable that the land will be developed. Which is unfortunate, because I live around the corner and I like the energy the tournament brings even if it shuts down one lane on Dorval for that week.

St. George's in Toronto or Angus Glen in Markham have hosted in the last 10 years and I've read St. George's is in negotiation.

They tried rotating it in recent years (Shaughnessy in Vancouver and Royal Montreal) but Golf Canada lost millions. I don't understand the finances of pro golf tours but it is a shame since it's the national open. The British, US and Australian Opens rotate every year. Canadian Open used to back in the day. Spanned many provinces.

Bernie Ecclestone built up F1 but then began to bring it down through greed. Traditional homes of motorsport were suddenly left off the calendar. No French GP for a decade! And Montreal had to miss out one year. There are several other examples. Races suddenly couldn't make any money since Bernie kept upping the hosting fees.

Golf is different. But I don't in which way. I do know that RBC lobbied to have it at Glen Abbey and money talks.

Glen Abbey is probably top 10 courses in the country but I read pro golfers give the edge to Shaughnessy in terms of the actual course. And then there's Cabot Cliffs or something like that out east in NS. There's two I think like that. Those are often ranked the best in the country, but the infrastructure and population are the issues. A guy I know went to go visit his nephew last year who got accepted to a school out there. But he used that as an excuse to his wife because the main intention was to go play that course.

If they are keeping it in GTA and Glen Abbey does shut down, they'll probably have to renovate a couple other courses in places like King City, Kleinburg or rural Milton. I'm not sure St. George's wants to be semi permanent like Glen Abbey.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by megadude

Glen Abbey is probably top 10 courses in the country

Sorry - not even close. It's not even be in the top 10 of the GTA.

Don't get me wrong - it's fine - but there's a lot more better courses out there than GA.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Sorry - not even close. It's not even be in the top 10 of the GTA.

Don't get me wrong - it's fine - but there's a lot more better courses out there than GA.

Admittedly, I'm not much of a golfer. I only play a public 9 hole course maybe twice a year. And I've certainly not played Glen Abbey. Only visited during the Open. The only somewhat fancy course I've played was Piper's Heath up Trafalgar because I got a free invite.

I thought I read somewhere GA was in the upper echelon but I was incorrect. And I guess I was assuming PGA or near PGA ready courses, forgetting that there are courses surrounded by nature's bounty far outside the cities.

Reading some top 100 lists it's actually in the 60s. There's gotta be some real stunners out there.

[Denscity]

BC dominates in Little league baseball once again and are heading to the little league World Series.
Every year it seems to be Whaley or Hastings from the lower mainland.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Denscity

BC dominates in Little league baseball once again and are heading to the little league World Series.
Every year it seems to be Whaley or Hastings from the lower mainland.

It's a little strange how dominant BC is in baseball.

[megadude]

It's Canada's hotbed for MLB talent. But as for Little League baseball, as far as I know it's basically one of several sanctioning bodies for amateur baseball. Well at least in the US it is. So when watching the LLWS, particularly for the US teams, you're not seeing the highest calibre players on those teams. Some are, but many participate in other leagues, which have different rules such as having farther back mounds, bases and walls, which a lot of parents feel are better suited to the development of their elite children.

I played one season of tee ball when I was 6 years old. That's the extent of my amateur baseball career. But based on what little knowledge I have on the subject, I'm guessing most amateur or even amateur rep teams in Ontario don't participate in Little League, but in some other sanctioned league. I will guess this is also the case in Quebec and possibly other provinces. For instance, MB doesn't have LL from what I recall. Their baseball falls under a different sanctioning body. I imagine amateur hockey is much more uniform.

When I was in middle school, I remember there were three kids in my school who played for Brampton Royals rep baseball, which was not Little Leage. Their team jackets were a dead giveaway. Always had them on. Two of them went on to scholarships in the US. One went on to play for Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team out of Christie Pitts on Bloor where some former Blue Jays play and I believe has been a stepping stone to majors for a select few.

Now BC has the weather to allow for more training and I'm guessing has that baseball culture that is more prevalent than elsewhere which has lead to their success in producing talent and LL champions. And if there was a best on best between provinces I have little doubt BC would generally be on top.

I find there is a certain romance when existing clubs play others to represent their country in amateur sport like Olympic hockey way back in the day. Anything on a higher level I'd love to see a select team consisting of the best players in Canada.

[MonctonRad]

I wonder how an MLB team would do in Vancouver. I think the city is big enough........

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder how an MLB team would do in Vancouver. I think the city is big enough........

BC Place was built with the intention of hosting an MLB team which was a lot closer idea then than it is now.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder how an MLB team would do in Vancouver. I think the city is big enough........

It was one of the cities mentioned by MLB commissioner Rob Manfred when he mused about MLB expansion in June:

“Portland, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville in the United States, certainly Montreal, maybe Vancouver, in Canada. We think there’s places in Mexico we could go over the long haul.”

https://deadspin.com/rob-manfred-say...ote-1827712616

[elly63]

BC Place as an MLB venue.

Baseball in B.C. Place a thing of the past?
New scoreboard, turf field raise concerns about compatibility
Bob Mackin Vancouver Courier August 12, 2011

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by megadude

It's Canada's hotbed for MLB talent. But as for Little League baseball, as far as I know it's basically one of several sanctioning bodies for amateur baseball.

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a sanctioning body and how is that advantageous? I would have assumed talent pool to be a far more important factor. That one can play baseball all year round in BC is not something I'd considered before and a good point. I'm still surprised that BC continues to field stronger teams than Ontario. Baseball has very deep roots in Ontario; especially SW Ontario.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a sanctioning body and how is that advantageous? I would have assumed talent pool to be a far more important factor. That one can play baseball all year round in BC is not something I'd considered before and a good point. I'm still surprised that BC continues to field stronger teams than Ontario. Baseball has very deep roots in Ontario; especially SW Ontario.

Basically, it's just another organization. I only used the term sanctioning body because that's what was used when I did little googling. Actually, to be more accurate, you might even call Little League a brand like Pop Warner football. Of course, I'm no expert on the subject matter and this is just my rudimentary understanding.

For instance, I coach in NFL Flag Football in Oakville, which consists of four teams for each age division all consisting of local kids. NFL licences franchises of this brand of flag football. Neighbouring Milton, Burlington and Hamilton also have franchises. We get NFL jerseys from a random real NFL team. This past season we were the Saints.

Meanwhile, Oakville Titans tackle football club also runs a flag football season which is totally independent of the NFL Flag league. Same with Burlington Stampeders.

If both leagues were merged into one, I imagine we'd have like 9 teams per division and play each other once instead of the current set up where we play the same team twice or three times.

So in relation to baseball, Little League is like NFL Flag. The most recognizable and flashiest league but not necessarily the league with the best players. Little League's got the iconic LLWS in Williamsport, PA and that is super cool. The other amateur baseball organizations might have their own national or regional finals, but they're not nationally televised and played in a junior version of an MLB stadium.

There are various other organizations running leagues throughout the provinces that have rep divisions with travelling teams which consist of high calibre players. There are far more rep teams outside of just Little League. And from what I understand, they even have national championships, but they are not as well known as Little League Canada's national championship.

Now, in addition to why BC is great at baseball, do more elite baseball players in BC gravitate towards Little League brand baseball instead of rep ball in other leagues in BC? Hence BC Little League teams on average have better players than Little League teams in the rest of the country?

Here's an example comparing BC Little League structure to Ontario's.

http://www.littleleague.ca/view/llca...itish-columbia

http://www.littleleague.ca/view/llca...sion-4-ontario

4 out of 8 divisions in BC are HQ in Vancouver. I'll assume almost all of those teams are in the Vancouver area, meaning access to greater talent pool. Of course I'm not an expert on BC geography.

When looking at Ontario, there are 8 divisions, but none that are based in TO. However, one of the divisions has 4 teams from the GTA. So in all of Ontario, there are only 4 GTA teams.

Mind you, there are of course other big population centres in Ontario. And like you mentioned, SWO has some baseball roots. Cdn Baseball HOF is in St. Marys after all.

What I'm wondering is, are the talented players in Ontario too spread out while BC's are more concentrated in those select few teams that seem to always win for BC and then beat the rest of Canada?

And if there were select teams, regardless of Little League or other rep affiliations, best on best, how would ON or say QC do against BC's best? I'd guess BC is still the best but not by much due to Ontario's population.

[isaidso]

Do kids have to try out for a team or can one just join. If there are few teams and lots of applicants, the teams should be of a higher skill level. Maybe BC has a scarcity of spots on teams and these teams are based in highly populated Vancouver? That would definitely be a big advantage talent wise.

Teams in the rest of Canada seem to be in small towns with little else going on. Go to the big cities and they have little presence. Glace Bay, Nova Scotia is a very tiny place yet has a team for example. In Halifax I'm sure there's Little League but the sport doesn't have the high profile of basketball, hockey, or football.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Teams in the rest of Canada seem to be in small towns with little else going on. Go to the big cities and they have little presence. Glace Bay, Nova Scotia is a very tiny place yet has a team for example. In Halifax I'm sure there's Little League but the sport doesn't have the high profile of basketball, hockey, or football.

I played baseball as a kid in Charlottetown. The only league championship we had was the city championship. We had nothing to do with Little League.

There are lots of baseball fields in Moncton at both the Hal Betts Complex and the CN Sportsplex. There are literally hundreds of kids playing organized ball. This seems a little more organized than it was on PEI when I was growing up, but again, I don't think the teams go any further than a provincial championship, so I can't imagine they are part of the little league structure.

Your comment about Glace Bay is noted. They have a good team there and I'm pretty sure they have ended up in national championships in the past........

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your comment about Glace Bay is noted. They have a good team there and I'm pretty sure they have ended up in national championships in the past........

They actually ended up in the National Championship game this past weekend, losing to a BC team.

Glace Bay Little League runners up, 2018

Courtesy of the Cape Breton Post

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your comment about Glace Bay is noted. They have a good team there and I'm pretty sure they have ended up in national championships in the past........

When I was younger and had friends who played baseball in NB through the summer they would always end up going to/playing in Glace Bay. It's like the place in Atlantic Canada for baseball.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

When I was younger and had friends who played baseball in NB through the summer they would always end up going to/playing in Glace Bay. It's like the place in Atlantic Canada for baseball.

Interesting. Glace Bay is obviously into "little league" baseball. Perhaps it's something like "prep school" hockey.

My eldest son went to Rothesay Netherwood in Saint John and played hockey on their team. They competed with other high schools in NB, but also played in tournaments with other prep schools in the northeastern US and Ontario. They took the tournaments much more seriously than they did their play against the humdrum high school teams. There were a lot of elite players on the team who were scouted all the time (think Notre Dame Hounds from SK) , with a number going on to major junior hockey and US college hockey. One of my son's teammates even played in the NHL for a bit.

I wonder what it takes for a team or league to be considered "little league"???

[megadude]

I think the term "little league" is used interchangeably with youth amateur baseball. While "Little League" is an actual brand/organization that clubs from cities can choose to participate in and play other clubs that fall under the Little League umbrella, which has different rules than other youth baseball leagues.

[megadude]

Stumbled upon some info. I see that Baseball Canada U13 nationals are taking place in Woodstock, ON later this month. U13 is the age for Little League World Series.

Looked at Baseball Canada's site and it says for their tournaments, all provinces compete to send teams and it's up to the province to determine how they send the team.

The IBAF world championships take place every two years and is made up of select teams from each country. So best on best rather than club vs club like in LLWS. As well, the dimensions at the WC and Baseball Canada nationals are bigger than Little League.

I copy and pasted the historical results from their website. It came out funny looking on here but the winning club is the name beside the year. Runners up are next to that.

And wow, the winners come from right across the country, which is pretty amazing.

Basically this tournament is the real national championship instead of Little League Canada's since this encompasses far more teams than Little League as far as I can tell. But Little League is what gets the glory. Full credit to the people who created and grew Little League into the brand that it is.





Strathmore, AB 1989 Saskatoon (SK) St. Albert (AB) Newcastle (NB)
Bedford, NS 1990 Canadian Polish AC (MB) Ridge Meadows (BC/C-B) Westhill (ON)
Charlesbourg, QC 1991 Brampton (ON) Charlesbourg (QC)-host Québec
Summerside, PEI 1992 Burlington (ON) Coquitlam (BC/C-B) Fredericton (NB)
Maple Ridge, BC/C-B 1993 Québec North Delta (BC/C-B) Brampton (ON)
North Bay, ON 1994 Québec New Brunswick North Bay (ON)-host
Summerside, PEI 1995
1996
Summerside, PEI 1997 Coquitlam (BC/C-B) Mississauga (ON) Québec
Summerside, PEI 1998 Waterloo (ON) Québec BC/C-B
Summerside, PEI 1999 Québec Ontario Manitoba
Summerside, PEI 2000 Lancaster (NB) Vancouver (BC/C-B) Guelph (ON)
13U/Peewee Championship: Historical Results/Championnats 13U/Peewee:
Résultats historiques
Summerside, PEI 2001 Ridge Meadows (BC/C-B) Mississauga (ON) Saint John (NB)
Summerside, PEI 2002 Québec Vancouver (BC/C-B) Mississauga (ON)
Windsor, ON 2003 Québec Whitby (ON) Coquitlam
Summerside, PEI 2004 Team BC/C-B Goldeyes Québec Calgary (AB)
Summerside, PEI 2005 Coquitlam (BC/C-B) Québec Regina (SK)
Victoria, BC/C-B 2006 Québec Victoria (BC/C-B) Mississauga (ON)
Québec City, QC 2007 Georgetown (ON) Québec Abbotsford (BC/C-B)
Vaughan, ON 2008 Québec Surrey (BC/C-B) Windsor (ON)
Moncton, NB 2009 Riverview (NB) Moncton (NB)-host St. John's (NL)
Red Deer, AB 2009 Saskatoon (SK) Sherwood park (AB)
Summerside, PEI 2010 Summerside (PEI) Halifax (NS) Yarmouth (NS)
Brandon, MB 2010 Abbotsford (BC/C-B) Brandon (MB)-host Ridge Meadows (BC/C-B)
Dartmouth, NS 2011 Bridgewater (NS) Dieppe (NB) Saint John (NB)
Nanaimo, BC/C-B 2011 Nanaimo Pirates Abbotsford (BC/C-B) Saskatoon Braves (SK)
St. John's, NL 2012 Fredericton, NB Charlottetown PEI/ÎPÉ Bridgewater, NS/N-É
Saskatoon, SK 2012 Cloverdale, BC/C-B Saskatoon (SK) Blue Jays Spruce Grove, AB
Fredericton, NB 2013 Tri-County (NS/N-É) Fredericton (NB) Moncton (NB)
Spruce Grove, AB 2013 BC Regina (SK) South Central (MB)
Altona, MB 2014 Pembina Hills (MB) Cloverdale (BC) Saskatoon (SK)
Charlottetown, PE 2014 Summerside (PEI) Fredericton (NB) Dartmouth (NS)
London, ON 2014 Brampton (ON) Abbotsford (BC/C-B) London (ON)
Yarmouth, NS 2015 Dartmouth (NS/NE) Yarmouth (NS/NE) Summerside (PEI/ÎPÉ)
Repentigny, QC 2015 Lanaudière, QC (Host) Coquitlam/Moody (BC/C-B) London (ON)
Coquitlam, BC 2015 Coquitlam/Moody (BC/C-B) Burnaby (BC/C-B) South Jasper Place (AB)
Saskatoon, SK 2016 Abbotsford (BC/C-B) Sask Five (SK) South Central (MB)
Mount Pearl, NL/T-N 2016 Hammonds Plains, NS/N-É Capital District, PEI/ÏPÉ St. John's (NL/T-N)
London, ON 2016 Brampton (ON) Mauricie (QC) London (ON)
Spruce Grove, AB 2017 Abbotsford (BC/C-B) Camrose, AB Regina (SK)
Moncton, NB/N-B 2017 Dartmouth, NS/N'É Kentville, NS/N-É Summerside, PEI/ÎPÉ
Repentigny, QC 2017 North York (ON) Saskatchewan Québec