Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[trueviking]

that's a hilarious poll result....the reality i'm hearing is 80-20 against.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I originally didn't want Bowman to win again, but chances are any strong opponent of his will be worse, with P+M staying closed being their primary calling card.

Maybe Bowman should have kept the P+M topic low key until after the election. Talking about it so much gave the opposition ammunition which resulted in it becoming an election issue. I'm glad to see some people bringing attention to the underground stairways being a safety issue for women. If they feel safer crossing at street level then that should be taken into consideration by those that only see the opening as an impediment to their travel time.

[Ando]

Great to see a Yes committee has been formed.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...489474601.html

[Ando]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that's a hilarious poll result....the reality i'm hearing is 80-20 against.

It all depends on who comes out to vote but the deck is stacked against because a lot of the suburban crowd is opposed or doesn’t care so status quo is their first option. The problem wth a referendum is it’s an opinion poll taken on one day and only those going out to vote will have a say. Municipal elections have a notoriously low turnout so the issue will be decided by a very small percentage of Winnipeggers. One of a host of reasons why governing by referendum is a bad idea. Good thing you are organizing a Yes committee!

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that's a hilarious poll result....the reality i'm hearing is 80-20 against.

No, what's hilarious is how the narrative on this forum for the past few months has been amazingly negative towards opening it up, meanwhile look at the yes-no ratio...

Amazing how the same 2 or 3 posters can consistently spout out their almost robotic like negativity. same negativity for everything so consistently... very very robotic...

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

No, what's hilarious is how the narrative on this forum for the past few months has been amazingly negative towards opening it up, meanwhile look at the yes-no ratio...

Amazing how the same 2 or 3 posters can consistently spout out their almost robotic like negativity. same negativity for everything so consistently... very very robotic...

I was indifferent to whether Portage and Main opened up, but once I read about the article about the women being scared or harassed, I now am in full support of P & M opening.

PS....Every time I see your name one thing comes to mind: this video!

• Video Link

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I was indifferent to whether Portage and Main opened up, but once I read about the article about the women being scared or harassed, I now am in full support of P & M opening.

Certain parts of downtown Winnipeg can be a menacing place for women after hours, but the concourse is especially problematic. I've heard more than a few women say that they do their best to avoid it at night. I don't know that it's really a major crime hotspot, but I can certainly appreciate why it would feel menacing to a woman walking alone... in the evening it's dark, almost always abandoned-feeling, with a lot of blind corners or obstructed lines of sight.

If the barriers end up staying, this is a problem that will have to be corrected. The street-level entrances in particular need to be improved.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by esquire

Certain parts of downtown Winnipeg can be a menacing place for women after hours, but the concourse is especially problematic. I've heard more than a few women say that they do their best to avoid it at night. I don't know that it's really a major crime hotspot, but I can certainly appreciate why it would feel menacing to a woman walking alone... in the evening it's dark, almost always abandoned-feeling, with a lot of blind corners or obstructed lines of sight.

If the barriers end up staying, this is a problem that will have to be corrected. The street-level entrances in particular need to be improved.

Yet another reason why the people leading the 'No' side are completely disingenuous. Browaty, Lukes, and Moktaluk all know that a substantial amount of money needs to be spent regardless of whether it stays closed or opens and that there is little difference in cost between the two. Yet they continue to push the cost narrative in order to get people to their side. They are simply using it as a power play and do not care if they have to lie to do so.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by windypeg

There's literally nothing there to indicate to a person that that's how you cross the street. How many tourists or newcomers to the city are going to think, "Oh! I get it, I must just walk down into this sketchy unmarked piss bunker to get where I'm going...

It’s pretty “big city” then, not unlike many grubby NYC or Toronto subway stairwell-type entrances. I remember that, for decades, the (much grander) St George subway entrance near me in Toronto didn’t have a single sign to tell anyone which subway station it was. I agree that the P&M entrance is uninspiring, but that sort of thing is hardly unique to Winnipeg.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

PS....Every time I see your name one thing comes to mind: this video!

Excuse to carry a classic 80's boombox around with me at all times to have a personal entrance song for every situation - FOUND!

[buzzg]

Ya, it's pretty obvious it will require a lot more money to re-build the barricades and do the work necessary to improve the concourse + access points than to just open the intersection.

We closed it 40 years ago at the request of the 4 landowners, with no vote. We should do it the same today – they all want it open, the contract is up, there shouldn't be a vote this time either.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by buzzg

the contract is up, there shouldn't be a vote this time either.

i wonder if anything was written into the contract as to what happens AFTER the 40 year lock down.

when you think of it like that, buzzg is rite, terms of the contract have expired.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Excuse to carry a classic 80's boombox around with me at all times to have a personal entrance song for every situation - FOUND!

Miss the late 80s. Good times.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It’s pretty “big city” then, not unlike many grubby NYC or Toronto subway stairwell-type entrances. I remember that, for decades, the (much grander) St George subway entrance near me in Toronto didn’t have a single sign to tell anyone which subway station it was. I agree that the P&M entrance is uninspiring, but that sort of thing is hardly unique to Winnipeg.

Except there's no subway, so no reason to go down there.. Just crossing the street.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Ando

Municipal elections have a notoriously low turnout so the issue will be decided by a very small percentage of Winnipeggers.

If the Yes vote wants this to happen that should make it super easy for them to secure the win.

[trueviking]

I’ve been going through the Dillon report to get a true handle on the traffic numbers.
The design that was chosen is interesting.

The two highest volume routes, Main Street northbound and southbound through the intersection, in both morning and afternoon rush hour, actually see no effect, or even a slight decrease, because the right turn to Portage East is eliminated. This represents 50% of the vehicles travelling through the intersection during rush hour.

The overall average vehicle delay through downtown (not just the intersection itself) is projected to be 50 seconds in the afternoon rush hour and 30 seconds in the morning rush hour.

All this hub bub for that!

The reason busses were so heavily impacted is because they measured person hours lost to the delay. So if there is an average of 20 people on a bus and the route it takes is delayed by 1 minute, they consider that a 20 minute delay. So the busses are not actually any more affected than cars, there is just a lot more people on a bus. It is still an oddity to include things like bus driver salaries in the cost of the project.

There is also an interesting chart showing the existing travel times for pedestrians and people in wheelchairs. It takes between 7 and 9 minutes for someone in a wheelchair to cross the street currently, assuming it is open.

[bomberjet]

Gasp. less than 1 minute.

Instead of calling for a referendum, City Hall should review and discuss the report.

Have they done this? At all?? Anyone know?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I’ve been going through the Dillon report to get a true handle on the traffic numbers.
The design that was chosen is interesting.

The two highest volume routes, Main Street northbound and southbound through the intersection, in both morning and afternoon rush hour, actually see no effect, or even a slight decrease, because the right turn to Portage East is eliminated. This represents 50% of the vehicles travelling through the intersection during rush hour.

The overall average vehicle delay through downtown (not just the intersection itself) is projected to be 50 seconds in the afternoon rush hour and 30 seconds in the morning rush hour.

All this hub bub for that!

The reason busses were so heavily impacted is because they measured person hours lost to the delay. So if there is an average of 20 people on a bus and the route it takes is delayed by 1 minute, they consider that a 20 minute delay. So the busses are not actually any more affected than cars, there is just a lot more people on a bus. It is still an oddity to include things like bus driver salaries in the cost of the project.

There is also an interesting chart showing the existing travel times for pedestrians and people in wheelchairs. It takes between 7 and 9 minutes for someone in a wheelchair to cross the street currently, assuming it is open.

Only reason to calculate that in person-minutes would be to exaggerate a point. That's an absurd metric, this isn't a labour estimate.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Gasp. less than 1 minute.

Instead of calling for a referendum, City Hall should review and discuss the report.

Have they done this? At all?? Anyone know?

Nope. The second it became a hot issue, all sensical talk at city hall stopped. Just been a political battle in the media and nothing else.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The reason busses were so heavily impacted is because they measured person hours lost to the delay. So if there is an average of 20 people on a bus and the route it takes is delayed by 1 minute, they consider that a 20 minute delay. So the busses are not actually any more affected than cars, there is just a lot more people on a bus. It is still an oddity to include things like bus driver salaries in the cost of the project.

I'd be okay with the city applying this same criterion to every piece of municipal infrastructure. Adding a transitway leg or diamond lane or bus-priority light to just about *any* area could be justified

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Ya, it's pretty obvious it will require a lot more money to re-build the barricades and do the work necessary to improve the concourse + access points than to just open the intersection.

We closed it 40 years ago at the request of the 4 landowners, with no vote. We should do it the same today – they all want it open, the contract is up, there shouldn't be a vote this time either.

I think a lot of people are misinformed about why P+M was closed in the first place. A great number of them believe it was a safety reason but as you correctly state it was to funnel people down below to the shops at the request of the property owners.