The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

How that integrates well in the urban fabric?

There isn’t any urban fabric to begin with.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by someone123

Here's a new BRT system proposed for Halifax.

Halifax already has a BRT type service called MetroLink that goes out to Portland Hills and Sackville. Most of the improvements on the Halifax side would be new. There are some special signals on the Halifax side now but as far as I know there are no dedicated bus lanes.



Report: https://www.shapeyourcityhalifax.ca/bus-rapid-transit

This would complement commuter rail and the ferries. It provides pretty good coverage of the inner parts of the city. Halifax's current bus system is built around a complicated set of long routes that match up different outer suburbs with parts of the inner city without transfers. In the future maybe those outer routes will be rejigged a bit to connect up to the main corridors.

This is not really BRT though, it's just at grade express bus service marketed as BRT.

[osmo]

I was bored today and counted how long the 2.7km stretch between Eglinton West and St Clair West station (the longest uninterrupted stretch between stations on the system) takes to travel - it takes 5.25 minutes to travel this stretch.

Part of the untold story of the Scarborough Subway Saga is the fact that people will be stuck in a train underground for nearly 12 minutes.

When you break this down further, it becomes evident that the TTC can't maintain 5-7 min service if it has trains going off into hinterlands in Scarborough. The dirty truth is that the TTC is going to have to short-turn trains at Kennedy so that every 2nd or 3rd train heads into Scarborough to not ruin the headway times for the rest of Bloor/Line 2.

So what this likely may mean is that Scarborough residents will have to transfer more times than not anyhow, or will have to wait much longer for a Scarborough/STC train to appear on the Bloor line to take them into Scarbrough.

I have been trying to find similar subway stretches below-grade that are 10km +, but I have not had much luck.

[nephersir7]

Originally Posted by osmo

I was bored today and counted how long the 2.7km stretch between Eglinton West and St Clair West station (the longest uninterrupted stretch between stations on the system) takes to travel - it takes 5.25 minutes to travel this stretch.

I find it hard to believe that TTC subway trains don't go faster than 30km/h

[someone123]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

This is not really BRT though, it's just at grade express bus service marketed as BRT.

It is not just express routes with less frequent stops. The plan also includes dedicated bus lanes and signal priority.

It's debatable where the BRT cutoff is. Either way it is nice to see that substantial transit investment seems to be on the horizon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is not just express routes with less frequent stops. The plan also includes dedicated bus lanes and signal priority.

It's debatable where the BRT cutoff is. Either way it is nice to see that substantial transit investment seems to be on the horizon.

In French there is a term used in BRT (and sometime in RT in general) that is "en site propre". Basically, that it has its own right-of-way.

I think that's a pretty good measure: it needs to have its own right-of-way for at least most of its routing.

Absent that, it's really just "transit-priority measures" on the shared road system that we're talking about.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In French there is a term used in BRT (and sometime in RT in general) that is "en site propre". Basically, that it has its own right-of-way.

I think that's a pretty good measure: it needs to have its own right-of-way for at least most of its routing.

Absent that, it's really just "transit-priority measures" on the shared road system that we're talking about.

That is what is happening with this system along the main corridors. There are bus lanes planned along Gottingen and Bayers Road for example. Mixed traffic will not be allowed in these lanes, so they should help prevent the buses from being stuck in typical traffic congestion.

What it won't be is fully grade separated. The buses will drive in their own lanes along the main corridors but then they will cross through the same intersections as the rest of traffic (but they will get a special signal that allows them to go before everyone else).

Rail lines can be the same as far as having more or less interaction with mixed traffic, although Transport Canada are not big fans of mixing heavy rail and light passenger vehicles.

I think this system will be pretty good for Halifax if it is implemented. The dedicated corridors will make transit around the core work a little better and then out in the suburbs it will be a mix of normal or express buses and commuter trains.

[Black Star]

Rust never sleeps: High Level Bridge too weak for LRT, engineers say

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...-engineers-say

[p_xavier]

QC's premier is now talking about a new REM line for Laval and the North Shore. He adds to major transit projects are the hydro projects of today.

http://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/economie...es-plans-pour-les-basses-laurentides.php

[Doady]

Originally Posted by osmo

I was bored today and counted how long the 2.7km stretch between Eglinton West and St Clair West station (the longest uninterrupted stretch between stations on the system) takes to travel - it takes 5.25 minutes to travel this stretch.

Part of the untold story of the Scarborough Subway Saga is the fact that people will be stuck in a train underground for nearly 12 minutes.

When you break this down further, it becomes evident that the TTC can't maintain 5-7 min service if it has trains going off into hinterlands in Scarborough. The dirty truth is that the TTC is going to have to short-turn trains at Kennedy so that every 2nd or 3rd train heads into Scarborough to not ruin the headway times for the rest of Bloor/Line 2.

So what this likely may mean is that Scarborough residents will have to transfer more times than not anyhow, or will have to wait much longer for a Scarborough/STC train to appear on the Bloor line to take them into Scarbrough.

I have been trying to find similar subway stretches below-grade that are 10km +, but I have not had much luck.

The "hinterlands" of Scarborough have higher transit ridership per capita than both Brooklyn and Queens, NY. I don't support the subway extension for Scarborough but to liken the place to Iqaluit or something just seems like pure hate.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Doady

The "hinterlands" of Scarborough have higher transit ridership per capita than both Brooklyn and Queens, NY. I don't support the subway extension for Scarborough but to liken the place to Iqaluit or something just seems like pure hate.

This does not apply. My argument is that the mode of transit proposed does not fit the context of Scarborough. Even you know once you unpack those numbers it becomes obvious this is bus usage rates for various parts in and beyond Scarborough. Nobody is saying Scarborough isn't a big and busy place within its own right, what I am saying that proposing a node of transit that is appropriate for that land area is what is the problem.

[Innsertnamehere]

10km? The extension is 6km. And travel times are supposed to be 9-10 minutes, not 12. It takes 12 minutes to ride the new spadina extension which is 8.6km and has 6 stations. Also my experience with Eglinton west to st Clair west has been more typically in the 3-4 minute range, you must of had a slow train or something.

Also, the TTC will add trains to the bloor line to account for the longer running times, just like they did in December for the spadina extension. If they short turn trains, it will only be because of ridership.

TTC trains can get up to 60km/h I believe, in certain stretches. There aren't many stretches that allow that though.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by osmo

This does not apply. My argument is that the mode of transit proposed does not fit the context of Scarborough. Even you know once you unpack those numbers it becomes obvious this is bus usage rates for various parts in and beyond Scarborough. Nobody is saying Scarborough isn't a big and busy place within its own right, what I am saying that proposing a node of transit that is appropriate for that land area is what is the problem.

Yes, Scarborough has fewer subways, so transit riders there are more reliant on buses. No shit.

The lack of subways in a place is not a good argument against new subways in that place.

The fact is, Scarborough is not an environment that is hostile to transit, as the ridership numbers clearly show. It is no "hinterland".

[Doady]

I think people emphasize the suburban-ness of Scarborough and North York and Etobicoke way too much. These are not average suburbs. Arguing against the Scarborough subway extension is very easy. You don't need to resort to such exaggerations.

Even Mississauga is getting too crowded they need to build LRT, and you would have us believe Scarborough is the middle of nowhere or something? C'mon.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Doady

I think people emphasize the suburban-ness of Scarborough and North York and Etobicoke way too much. These are not average suburbs. Arguing against the Scarborough subway extension is very easy. You don't need to resort to such exaggerations.

Even Mississauga is getting too crowded they need to build LRT, and you would have us believe Scarborough is the middle of nowhere or something? C'mon.

Personnally, I'm not against a subway in Scarborough; I just find a one stop subway at that price to be a ridiculous investment. At least with 3 stations, it would cover more areas.

[Mister F]

It just doesn't make any sense to build a subway extension that would do little more than replace a perfectly good rapid transit line that already exists. In a city as transit starved as Toronto that's a horrible use of money. Upgrading the SRT line or ordering new custom vehicles to fit the guideway would be a fraction of the cost. We're essentially paying $3.4 billion to eliminate a transfer. It's ridiculous.

The SRT should have been extended along Eglinton all the way to the airport. It could have been elevated in the suburban sections and underground where the current tunnel is being built. That would have eliminated a transfer from Scarborough, made use of existing infrastructure, and made the Eglinton line a true rapid transit line instead of an LRT that stops at red lights. I guess that would have been too sensible.

[GreaterMontréal]

Station McGill by Ricky Leong, sur Flickr

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by nephersir7

I find it hard to believe that TTC subway trains don't go faster than 30km/h

On the one above-ground section from Eglinton to St. Clair through Davisville where it runs alongside Yonge, the trains are often moving slower than the traffic on Yonge.

As for Eglinton West to St. Clair West, my experience is that some trains will stop in the tunnel before St. Clair West due to a northbound train short turning. That easily adds a minute to the southbound trip.

[Doady]

For subway to Scarborough Centre, Sheppard extension would have made a lot more sense.

No more transfer at Kennedy, but transfer still needed at Bloor-Yonge. For direct connection between Scarborough Centre and downtown, something involving GO as part GO RER plan would have made more sense, like a branch of an upgraded Stouffeville line or something.

But of course GO Transit might as well not exist in Toronto's eyes. But that's what happens TTC is an island into itself, not integrated with the rest of the GTA transit network. But I guess we should be grateful at least that GO isn't banned from providing service within City of Toronto, like the 905 systems are. Though I'm sure the City of Toronto would ban GO if they had the power to.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Doady

But of course GO Transit might as well not exist in Toronto's eyes. But that's what happens TTC is an island into itself, not integrated with the rest of the GTA transit network. But I guess we should be grateful at least that GO isn't banned from providing service within City of Toronto, like the 905 systems are. Though I'm sure the City of Toronto would ban GO if they had the power to.

I thought YRT had buses in Toronto?