PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 290

br323206 · #**5781** Posted **May 3, 2016, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Yea, the BSL is always packed on game days. But you can't argue with these Google Earth views:

Citizens Bank Park: https://goo.gl/maps/bUXmeAU3dym
Fenway: https://goo.gl/maps/zLosvVDFZJp
Yankee: https://goo.gl/maps/H2hoyQziRt52
Wrigley: https://goo.gl/maps/jxxYQDnXrpP2

The people packing on the BSL notwithstanding, the bulk of people drive to South Philly whereas the majority of fans attending Sox/Yankees/Cubs games are taking transit. And it's something that's ingrained in the culture. Hence, when downtown stadiums were proposed, the masses were not saying, "Oh great, I can stop driving to games and rely on SEPTA!" No, they were groaning about the difficulty of parking and congestion of Center City. It's been touched on throughout this forum, but we've all acknowledged that for an east coast city with an extensive mass transit system, Philadelphians are still in love with their cars.

Definitely a cultural difference between Philly and those places, but cultures adapt. People would be pissed off about losing parking but would grow to love the new setup. We could actually build a real neighborhood around the current sports complex if we lost those horrible parking lots. If they can do it in Cincinnati, we can do it here:

Aaamazarite · #**5782** Posted **May 3, 2016, 3:43 PM**

Found this rendering of Brandywine's plans for the 7th and Market garage:

They're asking $30 per sq ft per yr for the retail spaces-- a bit high if you ask me.

Londonee · #**5783** Posted **May 3, 2016, 3:48 PM**

^^^Jesus, that's like looking at the sun.

We give Brandywine a wide leash on this forum...

allovertown · #**5784** Posted **May 3, 2016, 4:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

Found this rendering of Brandywine's plans for the 7th and Market garage:

They're asking $30 per sq ft per yr for the retail spaces-- a bit high if you ask me.

Eh. Looks fine for a garage. Definitely a lot better than the shit stack currently there. Really not happy they're improving the garage though. The hope when they purchased was we'd get a tower here. Redoing the garage indicates it will still be here for a long time.

Cro Burnham · #**5785** Posted **May 3, 2016, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

Found this rendering of Brandywine's plans for the 7th and Market garage.

Looks like they add a floors or two. . . bad news, means that pile of crap will be be around for longer than one might have otherwise hoped . . .

http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screenshot-2015-04-10-at-4.15.01-PM.png

relnahe · #**5786** Posted **May 3, 2016, 4:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Looks like they add a few floors . . . bad news, means that pile of crap will be be around for longer than one might have otherwise hoped . . .

Hmmm. Looks to be the same height. It's amazing for a sprawly parking garage that if they demo'd the whole thing Brandywine could sell it for a ton. The lot would be huge and it has to be zoned for decent height I'd imagine.

Arch+Eng · #**5787** Posted **May 3, 2016, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by relnahe

Hmmm. Looks to be the same height. It's amazing for a sprawly parking garage that if they demo'd the whole thing Brandywine could sell it for a ton. The lot would be huge and it has to be zoned for decent height I'd imagine.

They could sell it for a larger ton (metric shit ton) in the future, plus they can make money off of it until then.

Economics.

Knight Hospitaller · #**5788** Posted **May 3, 2016, 5:33 PM**

Looks OK for an improved garage. It definitely fits the Market East as Times Square-lite vibe.

McBane · #**5789** Posted **May 3, 2016, 6:30 PM**

By chance, maybe the garage was built to support a future tower? Does anyone know?

McBane · #**5790** Posted **May 3, 2016, 6:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkway

I was thinking about when the started construction on Camden Yards in 1990. If I had to put the stadium somewhere else, I would probably chose Delaware Ave and Spring Garden. That is the type of area that could use the sort of boost in traffic that a ballpark would provide.

I'd prefer they upzone the area immediately around the complex in South Philly. But in any case, if they ever resurrect the idea of a downtown(ish) stadium, it must meet the following two criteria:

1) Be situated next to a major mass transit node, like 30th Street Station or even Temple. People need to get there using one mode of transit, the masses don't want to transfer. Also, SEPTA will need to adjust the headways - asking people to wait an hour for the next train is unacceptable.

2) There must be a restriction on parking lots and garages. Otherwise, the immediate area will be stunted and nothing will have been accomplished.

As much as I like the idea of Delaware and Spring Garden, there isn't good mass transit nearby. Asking people to take the train to Market East and transfer to the El is inconvenient (despite what you and I might think).

Busy Bee · #**5791** Posted **May 3, 2016, 6:59 PM**

summersm343 · #**5792** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:22 AM**

7th and Market Brandywine garage

Not to speak on behalf of Brandywine since I do not work for them, but do know a little bit about their game-plan. There will not be a tower built here anytime before 2020. They're simply going to reclad the garage, add some pretty lights, possibly add a green roof and redev the retail spaces. This will be a hold over until they're ready to move forward or when demand dictates a tower. We're realistically looking no earlier than 2022 for a tower here. They're speculating anything from 450 to 650 feet tall here depending on demand.

In the meantime, Brandywine has a lot going on. Obviously finishing up FMC Tower, and working on building up the Camden Campbells development. They will also be starting the first Schuylkill Yards tower in 2017, with the park and Bulletin building set to start this year. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2018 along with 2100 Market. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will start in 2019. Cira II will start in 2019-2020. The third Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2020 as well. There is a lot going on.

Personally too, I would like to see a ton of development happen first before this parking garage. Obviously three towers could go on the 8th and Market Parking lot. Two fronting Market and one fronting Chestnut. Would also like to see East Market development built out with two towers fronting Market and two fronting Chestnut. Half of the Southern portion of the 900 Block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with a tower. The entire 1000 block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with two towers. There is the parking lot at 13th and Market that can hold a tower. Also, the three towers on top of the Gallery. Not to mention nearly the entire strip of Chestnut between 7th and Juniper need work.

summersm343 · #**5793** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:29 AM**

Snohetta reveals new Temple Library rooftop rendering

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/5/3/11577228/snohetta-rendering-temple-university-green-roof

philatonian · #**5794** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Ha! Yep, exactly what it is!

Cro Burnham · #**5795** Posted **May 4, 2016, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by relnahe

Hmmm. Looks to be the same height.

I see one extra floor. Five levels vs. four. Am I hallucinating?

Redddog · #**5796** Posted **May 4, 2016, 12:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I see one extra floor. Five levels vs. four. Am I hallucinating?

Looks like they just capped the top, open floor.

McBane · #**5797** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

7th and Market Brandywine garage

Not to speak on behalf of Brandywine since I do not work for them, but do know a little bit about their game-plan. There will not be a tower built here anytime before 2020. They're simply going to reclad the garage, add some pretty lights, possibly add a green roof and redev the retail spaces. This will be a hold over until they're ready to move forward or when demand dictates a tower. We're realistically looking no earlier than 2022 for a tower here. They're speculating anything from 450 to 650 feet tall here depending on demand.

In the meantime, Brandywine has a lot going on. Obviously finishing up FMC Tower, and working on building up the Camden Campbells development. They will also be starting the first Schuylkill Yards tower in 2017, with the park and Bulletin building set to start this year. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2018 along with 2100 Market. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will start in 2019. Cira II will start in 2019-2020. The third Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2020 as well. There is a lot going on.

Personally too, I would like to see a ton of development happen first before this parking garage. Obviously three towers could go on the 8th and Market Parking lot. Two fronting Market and one fronting Chestnut. Would also like to see East Market development built out with two towers fronting Market and two fronting Chestnut. Half of the Southern portion of the 900 Block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with a tower. The entire 1000 block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with two towers. There is the parking lot at 13th and Market that can hold a tower. Also, the three towers on top of the Gallery. Not to mention nearly the entire strip of Chestnut between 7th and Juniper need work.

Nice post and thanks for the info. Two things jumped out at me.

1) You said a second Schyukill Yards tower would likely begin in 2018 and then in the next sentence you said a second Schyukill Yards tower will start in 2019. I assume you meant a third?

2) When I read that the garage would stand until at least 2020, I was deflated. As someone who grew up in the 80's, 2020 conjures up the image of the distant future with hover boards, space colonies, and Taco Bell. It's just crazy how 2020 is less than four years away!

PhilliesPhan · #**5798** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:25 PM**

To Rebuild a Neighborhood, Philadelphia Goes Beyond Housing

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/reales...ide=6&entrySlide=1&pgtype=imageslideshow

PhilliesPhan · #**5799** Posted **May 4, 2016, 1:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

7th and Market Brandywine garage

Not to speak on behalf of Brandywine since I do not work for them, but do know a little bit about their game-plan. There will not be a tower built here anytime before 2020. They're simply going to reclad the garage, add some pretty lights, possibly add a green roof and redev the retail spaces. This will be a hold over until they're ready to move forward or when demand dictates a tower. We're realistically looking no earlier than 2022 for a tower here. They're speculating anything from 450 to 650 feet tall here depending on demand.

In the meantime, Brandywine has a lot going on. Obviously finishing up FMC Tower, and working on building up the Camden Campbells development. They will also be starting the first Schuylkill Yards tower in 2017, with the park and Bulletin building set to start this year. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2018 along with 2100 Market. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will start in 2019. Cira II will start in 2019-2020. The third Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2020 as well. There is a lot going on.

Personally too, I would like to see a ton of development happen first before this parking garage. Obviously three towers could go on the 8th and Market Parking lot. Two fronting Market and one fronting Chestnut. Would also like to see East Market development built out with two towers fronting Market and two fronting Chestnut. Half of the Southern portion of the 900 Block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with a tower. The entire 1000 block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with two towers. There is the parking lot at 13th and Market that can hold a tower. Also, the three towers on top of the Gallery. Not to mention nearly the entire strip of Chestnut between 7th and Juniper need work.

Thanks for the excellent information, Summers! The speculated height is definitely worth the wait! By 2022, I will be 26 and a working professional living in the city. I can wait for this lot to be developed. All of the action that Brandywine has planned before the garage is also very exciting, especially since I will be moving to Philly from the Lehigh Valley for college at Temple University this fall.

Summers is also right in the fact that so many other parcels in Market East need to be developed first. Personally, 13th and Market is my least favorite surface lot due to its proximity to City Hall, retail, the business district along Market West and South Broad, and multiple modes of transit. I could see a tall, mixed-use tower filling that parcel.

jjv007 · #**5800** Posted **May 4, 2016, 3:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

7th and Market Brandywine garage

Not to speak on behalf of Brandywine since I do not work for them, but do know a little bit about their game-plan. There will not be a tower built here anytime before 2020. They're simply going to reclad the garage, add some pretty lights, possibly add a green roof and redev the retail spaces. This will be a hold over until they're ready to move forward or when demand dictates a tower. We're realistically looking no earlier than 2022 for a tower here. They're speculating anything from 450 to 650 feet tall here depending on demand.

In the meantime, Brandywine has a lot going on. Obviously finishing up FMC Tower, and working on building up the Camden Campbells development. They will also be starting the first Schuylkill Yards tower in 2017, with the park and Bulletin building set to start this year. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2018 along with 2100 Market. The second Schuylkill Yards tower will start in 2019. Cira II will start in 2019-2020. The third Schuylkill Yards tower will likely start in 2020 as well. There is a lot going on.

Personally too, I would like to see a ton of development happen first before this parking garage. Obviously three towers could go on the 8th and Market Parking lot. Two fronting Market and one fronting Chestnut. Would also like to see East Market development built out with two towers fronting Market and two fronting Chestnut. Half of the Southern portion of the 900 Block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with a tower. The entire 1000 block of Market can be demo'd and replaced with two towers. There is the parking lot at 13th and Market that can hold a tower. Also, the three towers on top of the Gallery. Not to mention nearly the entire strip of Chestnut between 7th and Juniper need work.

I love your constant optimism, Summers, but I'm not super confident that these projects will advance at the rate you're suggesting, even though we're dealing with Brandywine here. Also, I had the same question as McBane about you twice mentioning the start of the second tower's construction.