YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

What's WS's feelings wrt servicing Castlegar? I had thought similar markets like Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Red Deer would have been of interest to WS but I get the impression that's not the case.

I think Encore is interested in us as they like to move into markets where AC has the place to themselves. Plus we have a vacant space for a second airline like we've had for decades in the past. YCG serves a market of roughly 90000 people so that isnt the issue. The issue with our airport is landing difficulties in the winter. We've got NavCanada measuring our mountains which surround our airport. And we're talking with Air Canada and awaiting a business case study from them regarding YCG. If its favourable then apparently NavCanada will put in a gps based ILS system which the new Q400 aircraft are already equipped with and the city has already budgeted on its end. (sorry im an uneducated nav nerd).
Also our runway is 5300' long and has served multiple 737s daily for decades. I grew up under the landing and takeoff path so I remember it well. YCG has had jet service since 1968.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Denscity

I think Encore is interested in us as they like to move into markets where AC has the place to themselves. Plus we have a vacant space for a second airline like we've had for decades in the past. YCG serves a market of roughly 90000 people so that isnt the issue. The issue with our airport is landing difficulties in the winter. We've got NavCanada measuring our mountains which surround our airport. And we're talking with Air Canada and awaiting a business case study from them regarding YCG. If its favourable then apparently NavCanada will put in a gps based ILS system which the new Q400 aircraft are already equipped with and the city has already budgeted on its end. (sorry im an uneducated nav nerd).
Also our runway is 5300' long and has served multiple 737s daily for decades. I grew up under the landing and takeoff path so I remember it well. YCG has had jet service since 1968.

Hate to burst the YCG encore bubble but but a tea leaf reading of Q3 financials release does not pose well for YCG. A key message from WS is that encore stage length will increase over 2015, so don't expect short routes like YYC-YCG or YVR-YCG. Also expect encore to have greater focus developing the YYZ hub rather than YYC.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by excel

Ya I was under the impression they were going with a319/a320 as well but their web page clearly depicts a 737. Hopefully they have changed to Boeing.

Don't ready anything into the website picture being a proxy for their fleet choice.

IIRC their first pic was of an AC 319 with jetlines superimposed at least the current pic is professionally photoshopped image.

Also when WS was at jetlines current stage of development, they were shopping for DC9 or MD82. The 732 was afterthought, but value jet was picking up all available airplanes, so Clive and co had to pick another fleet type.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by Cage

Hate to burst the YCG encore bubble but but a tea leaf reading of Q3 financials release does not pose well for YCG.

Whose Q3 financials are you referring to: WS or YCG?

A key message from WS is that encore stage length will increase over 2015, so don't expect short routes like YYC-YCG or YVR-YCG. Also expect encore to have greater focus developing the YYZ hub rather than YYC.

I would love to see WS Encore establish a YYZ-DCA route with their own metal!

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Prompted me to look at their website again. Jetlines.ca

The plane looks better now... although I thought they were going with Airbus

Well if this is their ultimate livery ... I like it

They say Boeing on their we site.. And point to point service to non-major airports where possible. So no hub?? Would yyj-yxe/yqr-ywg same plane jet-service work for example?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Well if this is their ultimate livery ... I like it

They say Boeing on their we site.. And point to point service to non-major airports where possible. So no hub?? Would yyj-yxe/yqr-ywg same plane jet-service work for example?

Everything I read contradicts what they have been saying all along. Either their business plan keeps changing or just making random statements.

They say from their base at YVR then talk about secondary airports. I don't get it. I highly doubt there would be enough traffic to warrant flying from YYJ to YXE or YQR or YWG for example. AC only flies CRJs to both YXE and YQR as another example. To fill those bigger planes they are going to have to fly to larger population centres.

Plane does look better now! Kind of Garuda-esque

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Everything I read contradicts what they have been saying all along. Either their business plan keeps changing or just making random statements.

They say from their base at YVR then talk about secondary airports. I don't get it. I highly doubt there would be enough traffic to warrant flying from YYJ to YXE or YQR or YWG for example

I guess they want to keep the other airlines guessing? They mention yvr-prince rupert!? Maybe for workcamps. Maybe yvr-fort mac with a stop in Prince george or grand prairie along the way??

Whoops - i meant yyj to yxe (stop) to ywg on the same plane. 3 city route.

What size of 737?? Or even 717??

[Johnny Aussie]

In this month's Hemispheres magazine.

https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/company-operations/pages/united-three-perfect-days-vancouver.aspx

[Spikester]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

In this month's Hemispheres magazine.

https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/company-operations/pages/united-three-perfect-days-vancouver.aspx

I saw that on a UA flight home for a four-day rest between trips, and I'm firmly convinced that somebody was trolling me. My four perfect days in Vancouver were mostly comprised of sleeping and doing laundry.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

In this month's Hemispheres magazine.

https://hub.united.com/en-us/news/company-operations/pages/united-three-perfect-days-vancouver.aspx

Read quickly through it, and it's obvious they're tryng to sell the city as a destination.
Isn't UA codeshare partner with AC? At least they're both in *alliance. Anyway, it makes total sense that they'd do this. They now serve Chicago, Houston, Denver, SF...
(These seem routes that, if Vancouver magically became as important in AC eyes as a "Western YYZ," would all be served by AC itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Prompted me to look at their website again. Jetlines.ca

The plane looks better now... although I thought they were going with Airbus?

Best quote ---> "The airline plans routes that avoid direct competition with current airlines." It also says further down the landing page, "From its base at Vancouver International Airport...." Knowing that they also stated their first routes are to be in Western Canada, what routes does that leave? Unless their business plan has changed. I am not sure how that's going to work.

Ok. I took the time to read their prospectus filed Nov 26. Net proceeds for the initial offering to fund: crew training for initial 2 aircraft, networking plan, prepare and fit 2 leased aircraft, marketing, reservation systems and working capital.

Also a few tidbits:

- two B737 classics @ 148 seats w/winglets to be operational by June 2015. Budget allows for up to 7 more 737classic leases over first 36 mos.

- Deposits for 21 more aircraft including the more fuel efficient 737-700NG and also some 737-800NG for eastern routes and sun destinations. Single aircraft model fleet. Will transition to the MAX when possible.

- Fleet maintenance by Skytec @ YVR

- single class service with low base fare and a la carte services such as wi-fi. 30" seat pitch and equal or wider seats than competition.

- Point-point service in Canada. By direct competition they mean jet service only. So offer jet service on routes that WJ and AC mainly serve with turboprop (Q400s) or offer jet service on underserved or unserved routes (a la original Wetjet). Also mention service to non-major, lower cost airports where possible?

- Their 'proposed' initial route map shows service to all major Western Canadian cities except YYJ&YYC. Low cost jet service to Okanagan, Prince George, Fort St. John, Fort Macmurray, YEG, YXE, YQR & YWG possible. I would imagine interline agreements with Asian carriers and maybe Iceland Air are possible.

- they plan on applying immediately to operate into the US, Mexico and certain Caribbean countries (sun dest.) from YVR

- they expect a significant increase in demand for air service across Canada over the next 10 years. They see a big opportunity in Canada for ULCC due to Westjet straying from its original LCC business model to one more based on the legacy carriers like Air Canada.

- Canada has high domestic yields - especially on some short stages. Seasonal sun destinations south from Canada are low yielding so bigger 737 needed.

- Air Canada (0.17 casm) and Westjet (0.14 casm and rising) have high cost structures compared to a LCC/ULCC models @ 0.09 average.

Of course they have many caveats - like a successful offering for starters

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Read quickly through it, and it's obvious they're tryng to sell the city as a destination.
Isn't UA codeshare partner with AC? At least they're both in *alliance. Anyway, it makes total sense that they'd do this. They now serve Chicago, Houston, Denver, SF...
(These seem routes that, if Vancouver magically became as important in AC eyes as a "Western YYZ," would all be served by AC itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

I'm actually glad YVR isn't a fortress hub like YYZ. nothing wrong with foreign flags to the US, even if they are American.

In fact, it allows AC to focus on its domestic and intercontinental offerings - allowing the US majors to brunt the cost of transborder thereby AC being more efficient and selective (hence generally better product).

Looks like Jetlines will offer some competition to the US which is good and gives a Canadian option on otherwise thin US metal dominated routes.

[SFUVancouver]

I'm writing this from Hong Kong International Airport. I got to see not one, not two, but three 787s today at YVR before my flight. This is the first time I've got a good look at them and I like 'em a lot. The 773ER is still my favourite jet and I got to spend a fair number of hours in one today. Cathay seems to have wider economy seats that BA. Good to know.

But... I missed my connecting flight to South Africa because I am an idiot. I set my watch to the wrong time when I landed and I missed the flight by about 5 minutes. No kidding. I'll be heading out on the next one, but it's a once-daily service, so the next one is 24 hours of living in HKG later.

I am not a happy camper tonight, but I've got about couple billion dollars' worth of long haul wide-bodied jets hanging out for the night beside my window, so the company could be worse. 747s, 777s, A340s, and A330s as far as the eye can see.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

I'm actually glad YVR isn't a fortress hub like YYZ. nothing wrong with foreign flags to the US, even if they are American.

In fact, it allows AC to focus on its domestic and intercontinental offerings - allowing the US majors to brunt the cost of transborder thereby AC being more efficient and selective (hence generally better product).

Looks like Jetlines will offer some competition to the US which is good and gives a Canadian option on otherwise thin US metal dominated routes.

Hey! I'm all for foreign flags at YVR (Air France, among others, and all the US carriers we have)
Calin Rovinescu of AC said YVR risked being a "stub" airport of other carriers, and although AC still provides 40 per cent of AC traffic,
we're sort of a "stub" for other airlines anyway, whether Mr. Rovinescu like is or not!!
I just wonder, though, what will Jetlines' USA routes be? Makes me curious.

[Johnny Aussie]

Next summer AC's YVR-NYC daily flight is moving from EWR to JFK and staying with the morning departure. Perhaps better for O&D. Perhaps leaving EWR to UA? Who knows!

[Gordon]

AC Used to fly to JFK , the switch seemed to happen around the same time as the UA Continental merger.
AC's website refers to their 3 major Hubs Toronto Montreal & Vancouver.

Is Delta doing it's summer JFK Non stops this summer?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Gordon

AC Used to fly to JFK , the switch seemed to happen around the same time as the UA Continental merger.
AC's website refers to their 3 major Hubs Toronto Montreal & Vancouver.

Is Delta doing it's summer JFK Non stops this summer?

Yes. DL, CX, PR and AC will all be flying to JFK from YVR next summer.

[Gordon]

could Jetlines do damage to airlines that use BLI to gather Vancouver travelers?

Are the old a gates other than A\B12 still under under construction & completely blocked off?

[thegx]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Next summer AC's YVR-NYC daily flight is moving from EWR to JFK and staying with the morning departure. Perhaps better for O&D. Perhaps leaving EWR to UA? Who knows!

Are you sure? Their website still shows EWR.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Gordon

could Jetlines do damage to airlines that use BLI to gather Vancouver travelers?

Unless Jetlines is flying to Las Vegas, Hawaii, etc. it won't be able to? So far the routes proposed none of which competes against Allegiant?