Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by VarBreStr18

Not everybody is travel savvy like you! In fact many people have very poor sense of direction.( which by the way has nothing to do with one's intelligence). Transit route needs to be as specific as possible. Subway in London system is soooo old, and British are notoriously traditional, so they just stick to the old way. But there is also a newer way and a better way to name transit line. Therefore the subway line in Hong Kong is never confusing.
Embrace changes, improvements.
Too late for Expo line, Millenium line because all signage are up. But Evergreen still can change .
Dont just rely on locals to give you direction, One time I was in Civita , Italy.
Trying to take train to cruise terminal and gets hoplessly confused. So I asked two local, who both assure me the right direction to go to cruise. 20 minutes later... i find myself end up in same central station i originate.

Did you have fun though? Because that's what mattered most in the end

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I think it was. The Millennium Line was envisioned as the "T" line, connecting UBC to Coquitlam, with a line down to New Westminster in along the middle. I think now the only reason there's been talk about starting a separate line from Commercial-Broadway station is because of the location of VCC-Clark station missing Clark and Fraser along Broadway.

It was the City of Vancouver that wanted the line to divert to serve the False Creek Flats - and now, with Emily Carr down there, that will have a good ridership. Tunnelling under Broadway would also have been disruptive to Broadway traffic, and there is a stream under there (China Creek).

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It was the City of Vancouver that wanted the line to divert to serve the False Creek Flats - and now, with Emily Carr down there, that will have a good ridership. Tunnelling under Broadway would also have been disruptive to Broadway traffic, and there is a stream under there (China Creek).

I know the reason they did it, but it's the only explanation I could come up with building a new line from Commercial-Broadway Station rather than just extending the Millennium Line. We need to tunnel under Broadway anyway going west from Main so I don't think it would have been much of an issue.

[AudiA3]

Dig 'em underground so it will not be disruptive to traffic, although riding a skytrain in a tunnel would be boring as hell.. just like the Canada Line. I much prefer above the ground, it will allow riders to enjoy the views outside.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Tunnelling under Broadway would also have been disruptive to Broadway traffic, and there is a stream under there (China Creek).

Apparently Broadway used to go across long wooden trestle west of Clark to cross over the very substantial China Creek ravine. It's almost all been filled in now, and the creek has been culverted so there's little very evidence of what a sizable geographic feature it once was.

[officedweller]

Thanks, that makes sense.
For the new Broadway line, I don't think a TBM would be able to bore through landfill easily, would it?
(They wouldn't have used a TBM for the original M-Line alignment unless Phase II was to be started concurrently,
as it would have been too costly to buy a TBM for that short a stretch (to VCC)).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

For the new Broadway line, I don't think a TBM would be able to bore through landfill easily, would it?
(They wouldn't have used a TBM for the original M-Line alignment unless Phase II was to be started concurrently,
as it would have been too costly to buy a TBM for that short a stretch.

Freeze or grout the soil first, let TBM chew through the result.
No problem!

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Did you have fun though? Because that's what mattered most in the end

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

That makes sense. VCC-Clark is already reasonably close to the campus, and there is a good walking path connecting the campus to the station, without even crossing Great Northern Way as VCC students have to do. And it would be good to have a station on Fraser. We wouldn't want to abandon the whole area between Main and Commercial lol.

EDIT: Plus, I just realized that already by building the Broadway extension to Cambie, we are providing an alternative option for downtown commuters to transfer to the Millenium/Evergreen. So connecting with Main isn't really necessary lol.

There won't be a "Fraser station" on the Evergreen / Millennium/ Broadway / UBC line.

West of VCC, the new line will continue elevated along the north edge of Great Northern Way campus (over the railway tracks) and then turn south at the recently re-aligned Thornton / 1st Ave, where there will likely be a new elevated station.

The tunnel portal will be on the north side of Great Northern Way, and the line will continue as tunnels south under either a) Brunswick; b) Prince Edward; or c) Guelph to Broadway. The alignment here depends on if the engineers can get under the St Frances X church & school, or if they need to go west of StFX.

Depending on which street the alignment uses, Guelph Park might be used to 'zig-zag' the tunnels before reaching Broadway ie; Guelph @ 7th to Brunswick @ 8th to avoid St. Mike's church on Broadway.

In any case, the line arrives at Broadway and starts heading west to UBC.


Alternatively, running the line under 10th Ave instead of Broadway will minimize the construction impacts on Broadway, and the line could curve under the S.E. corner of the Kingsgate Mall parking structure at Prince Edward @ 10th. Using a 10th Ave alignment also makes for a 'straight shot' to UBC - eliminating the Broadway / Alma / 10th zig-zag.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Dig 'em underground so it will not be disruptive to traffic, although riding a skytrain in a tunnel would be boring as hell.. just like the Canada Line. I much prefer above the ground, it will allow riders to enjoy the views outside.

My commute is spent face down looking at the ipad.
I generally don't need to know what is happening outside (above, on, or below ground) before I get to my next stop.

If the commute is boring, you're not using your time wisely.

[officedweller]

Back in 2012, the roads and the future M-Line extension right-of-way on the GNW Campus were re-aligned - see city report here:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Re-allignment of a road and re-allignment of the proposed M-Line extension through the GNW Campus to allow for an office building - because the BNSF rail yards are staying put for the foreseeable future. This also shifts the future SkyTrain station location towards Thornton & Great Northern Way.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20120418/documents/ptec1.pdf

You can also see the dashed outline for the alignment and station structure in the Emily Carr information.
I think the alignment and station are to be underground through the GNW Campus.

Originally Posted by officedweller

http://www.joconl.com/article/id56026/--...proponents-for-great-northern-way-campus

More info:

http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/project-ecuad.php



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You can also see the dashed outline for the alignment and station structure in the Emily Carr information.
I think the alignment and station are to be underground through the GNW Campus.

(Refer to image quoted above)

Behind 1901 Fraser and 577 GNW is intended to be used as a launching area for the TBM. The station would be below ground, at the northeast corner of Great Northern Way and Thornton St.

As part of the new Emily Carr campus, they're trying to even out the existing embankments and raise the ground level of the Finning lands to be closer to that of GNW and Thornton.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

There won't be a "Fraser station" on the Evergreen / Millennium/ Broadway / UBC line.

West of VCC, the new line will continue elevated along the north edge of Great Northern Way campus (over the railway tracks) and then turn south at the recently re-aligned Thornton / 1st Ave, where there will likely be a new elevated station.

The tunnel portal will be on the north side of Great Northern Way, and the line will continue as tunnels south under either a) Brunswick; b) Prince Edward; or c) Guelph to Broadway. The alignment here depends on if the engineers can get under the St Frances X church & school, or if they need to go west of StFX.

Depending on which street the alignment uses, Guelph Park might be used to 'zig-zag' the tunnels before reaching Broadway ie; Guelph @ 7th to Brunswick @ 8th to avoid St. Mike's church on Broadway.

In any case, the line arrives at Broadway and starts heading west to UBC.


Alternatively, running the line under 10th Ave instead of Broadway will minimize the construction impacts on Broadway, and the line could curve under the S.E. corner of the Kingsgate Mall parking structure at Prince Edward @ 10th. Using a 10th Ave alignment also makes for a 'straight shot' to UBC - eliminating the Broadway / Alma / 10th zig-zag.

Wow, this is a really good explanation. I'm not sure where you got the information, but thank you!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dpogue

As part of the new Emily Carr campus, they're trying to even out the existing embankments and raise the ground level of the Finning lands to be closer to that of GNW and Thornton.

As an aside, I've heard that the height restriction across the Emily Carr site has created a massive 4 storey behemoth.

[MIPS]

With respect to a regular station, there is no announcement of the next line until the train actually arrives. I wished they updated the Expo and Millennium stations with the electronic signs indicating how much time the Expo/Millennium Train will be arriving.

We do not need to replace those signs just because people are stupid and need someone to hold their hand when they take public transit.
Their task is simple, effective and still valid: Hang from the ceiling and indicate where the train in the station or arriving in the station is going. Again, when in doubt you check a map but TransLink is terrible at organizing their signage.

Unfortunately they need to be refurbished and in some stations those stupid Lamar signs obstruct them.

[officedweller]

It's the incessant need of the tech generation to micro-manage every aspect of every minute of their lives.

[MIPS]

Gotta know right now where the next train is going because I'm too busy looking at my facebook and can't wait an extra three minutes for a train.

Anyways I'm derailing the topic, sorry.

Have they been doing any surveying around the Carr site for construction or has initial surveying been completed?

[officedweller]

Someone posted demolition pics a while back.
An engineer friend of mine said the building design is being reworked, because despite the architect team being selected, the college did not like the design (i.e. best of the lot, but still didn't like it).

[SOSS]

I know the Millennium Line will soon terminate at Lougheed as the Evergreen Line comes online however what's the likelihood that one day as ridership continues to grow (& the extension to Arbutus or UBC is completed) that the Millennium Line will be reinstated to continue along its current path and perhaps terminate at Broadway-City Hall Station?

As it stands right now, its sort of a relief valve for people leaving downtown and it could act the same way in the future for the very busy Broadway corridor.

[officedweller]

Unlikely due to the issues of coordinating the timing of interlining trains from 3 separate routes with varying demand along the lines.
Passengers will just have to transfer.