Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[memememe76]

The biggest problem with the Expo/Millennium Line confusion, IMO, is the lack of signage inside the train and in the station. Sometimes, people just get on the eastbound train in a rush before the train leaves, not knowing whether it's Expo or Millennium. I know I do. If I happen to be on the Millennium train when I need to go to Surrey, I just step out of a station (usually New West because it's the most interesting station to wait a few minutes for the next train) and get on the next train.

But there is nothing inside the training telling you whether it's Expo or Millennium. The announcer system doesn't always work. And you can't check out the window of some random station--it's blocked.

With respect to a regular station, there is no announcement of the next line until the train actually arrives. I wished they updated the Expo and Millennium stations with the electronic signs indicating how much time the Expo/Millennium Train will be arriving.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by memememe76

The biggest problem with the Expo/Millennium Line confusion, IMO, is the lack of signage inside the train and in the station. Sometimes, people just get on the eastbound train in a rush before the train leaves, not knowing whether it's Expo or Millennium. I know I do. If I happen to be on the Millennium train when I need to go to Surrey, I just step out of a station (usually New West because it's the most interesting station to wait a few minutes for the next train) and get on the next train.

But there is nothing inside the training telling you whether it's Expo or Millennium. The announcer system doesn't always work. And you can't check out the window of some random station--it's blocked.

With respect to a regular station, there is no announcement of the next line until the train actually arrives. I wished they updated the Expo and Millennium stations with the electronic signs indicating how much time the Expo/Millennium Train will be arriving.

I was surprised when I took the Expo Line for the first time that they didn't have the same signs as the Canada Line does. It would help a lot.

Also, with the new Mark III trains coming soon, I would assume that they have destination signage on the interior the same way the Canada Line does now.

They have the opportunity to remove the uncertainty by splitting the Expo Line into two tail ends, and making the Evergreen Line a Millennium Line extension, so that Commercial-Broadway doesn't have the same line coming in two different directions.

[AudiA3]

Doesn't matter, let tourists get lost. Tourists get lost all the time, it's part of the fun of being a tourist. They can easily ask locals like myself, I will direct them to the appropriate line. Just build the goddam Broadway extension line already!

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Doesn't matter, let tourists get lost. Tourists get lost all the time, it's part of the fun of being a tourist. They can easily ask locals like myself, I will direct them to the appropriate line. Just build the goddam Broadway extension line already!

While you're at it you can also sell them a condo in Brentwood.

[AudiA3]

Originally Posted by Jebby

While you're at it you can also sell them a condo in Brentwood.

I will hold on to my investment until my retirement

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Doesn't matter, let tourists get lost. Tourists get lost all the time, it's part of the fun of being a tourist. They can easily ask locals like myself, I will direct them to the appropriate line. Just build the goddam Broadway extension line already!

Amen, and Amen!!

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I was surprised when I took the Expo Line for the first time that they didn't have the same signs as the Canada Line does. It would help a lot.

Also, with the new Mark III trains coming soon, I would assume that they have destination signage on the interior the same way the Canada Line does now.

They have the opportunity to remove the uncertainty by splitting the Expo Line into two tail ends, and making the Evergreen Line a Millennium Line extension, so that Commercial-Broadway doesn't have the same line coming in two different directions.

Agree on all points. Given the likelihood that at least part of the new Surrey transit will be LRT, it is now unlikely that this sort of split would necessitate any future splitting of the Expo Line 3 or 4 ways (i.e. Langley, Newton, Cloverdale, Lougheed). Ideally, I think, we're looking at a 2-option Expo Line, one terminus in Langley City and the other at Lougheed Town Centre (or perhaps Production Way if the SFU connection remains there). This would also avoid the insufficient-platforms-terminus problem at Columbia which would occur if Millenium Line were split, and it would also mean that at most we would have to rebrand 2 stations (Braid and Sapperton). Plus the simplicity of having only one line through Commercial-Broadway's upper deck.

[Large Cat]

And more on topic, does anyone have any speculations concerning where exactly the stations/entrances would be for the Broadway Extension?

It sounds like GNW Trust would like another one on Great Northern Way before continuing to Broadway--I assume this one would still be above ground? (Also, a speculation: If they built this station on the northwesterly side of the multi-campus, closer to 1st Ave and Terminal, would there be a possibility of an underground pedestrian connection tunnel with airport-like speed ramps to Main St. station? This could be a way of alleviating transfer congestion at Commercial-Broadway, which will probably get worse even with the new upgrades. People coming from or to downtown could be encouraged to transfer at Main St., or to bike there since it is right on the seawall.)

Then my hope is that they build the next station at Main and Broadway, giving a solid connection to Mt. Pleasant, after which Cambie and Broadway (City Hall/Hospital?) is obviously next up. Then, Granville/Broadway and Arbutus/Broadway? (Should the west side of the hospital get a station too?)

I'm not even going to dive into where stations should be once we get past Arbutus.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

And more on topic, does anyone have any speculations concerning where exactly the stations/entrances would be for the Broadway Extension?

I'd expect it to be something like this:

VCC
Fraser
Main
Cambie
Granville
Arbutus
McDonald
Alma
Blanca
UBC

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I'd expect it to be something like this:

VCC
Fraser
Main
Cambie
Granville
Arbutus
McDonald
Alma
Blanca
UBC

That makes sense. VCC-Clark is already reasonably close to the campus, and there is a good walking path connecting the campus to the station, without even crossing Great Northern Way as VCC students have to do. And it would be good to have a station on Fraser. We wouldn't want to abandon the whole area between Main and Commercial lol.

EDIT: Plus, I just realized that already by building the Broadway extension to Cambie, we are providing an alternative option for downtown commuters to transfer to the Millenium/Evergreen. So connecting with Main isn't really necessary lol.

[GlassCity]

Translink's study shows a variety of options of rapid transit service along the corridor, including LRT, BRT and SkyTrain. All are shown with maps including potential station locations.

Here's the RRT one:

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...tudy_alternatives_analysis_findings.ashx

So assuming they'd probably just extend the Millennium Line, after VCC-Clark going west:
Emily Carr Great Northern Way Campus
Main
Broadway-City Hall Canada Line Station
Oak
Granville
Arbutus
Macdonald
Alma
Sasamat
UBC

If the Mayor's plan is approved, that doesn't completely kill SkyTrain all the way to UBC as one phase, does it? Say if they were able to secure additional provincial or federal funding.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Skytrain is tremendously popular with tourists because if its spectacular views. Seabus too.

Yep I wasn't saying they don't use skytrain, I was disputing the idea that tourists don't go to suburbs. Many (most?) are here for nature, not downtown.

And of course the skytrain takes people to the seabus, makes sense to use it even if your hotel is just south of Georgia.

[officedweller]

Once Evergreen Line opens, our "pan-shaped loop: will disappear and much of the M-Line confusion will also disappear.

See here for other loops on Metro systems (Bucharest and Newcastle look most like M-Line):

http://mic-ro.com/metro/metrorings.html

I like the event based names of the SkyTrain lines - it adds "local character" and ties to history.
To a visitor "Expo Line" would be no different than "A Line" or "ABC Line".

If you are appealing to visitors, you'd be trying to make things as generic as possible.
Is that a good thing (for the community)?

You may as well say that visitors won't know BC Place is a stadium, so lets call it BC Stadium.
But wait, where in BC is BC Stadium?
It should be Vancouver Stadium.
But wait, Vancouver has more than one stadium, too.
It should be Beatty Street Stadium, then all the visitors will know where it is.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Once Evergreen Line opens, our "pan-shaped loop: will disappear and much of the M-Line confusion will also disappear.

See here for other loops on Metro systems (Bucharest and Newcastle look most like M-Line):

http://mic-ro.com/metro/metrorings.html

I like the event based names of the SkyTrain lines - it adds "local character" and ties to history.
To a visitor "Expo Line" would be no different than "A Line" or "ABC Line".

If you are appealing to visitors, you'd be trying to make things as generic as possible.
Is that a good thing (for the community)?

You may as well say that visitors won't know BC Place is a stadium, so lets call it BC Stadium.
But wait, where in BC is BC Stadium?
It should be Vancouver Stadium.
But wait, Vancouver has more than one stadium, too.
It should be Beatty Street Stadium, then all the visitors will know where it is.

I think that's part of what it means to visit another city. Things are new, and foreign, and that's neat. Allows people to get to know the city, and the heartbeat of the city.

I'm not complaining about the station names. They are what they are.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Translink's study shows a variety of options of rapid transit service along the corridor, including LRT, BRT and SkyTrain. All are shown with maps including potential station locations.

Here's the RRT one:

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...tudy_alternatives_analysis_findings.ashx

So assuming they'd probably just extend the Millennium Line, after VCC-Clark going west:
Emily Carr Great Northern Way Campus
Main
Broadway-City Hall Canada Line Station
Oak
Granville
Arbutus
Macdonald
Alma
Sasamat
UBC

If the Mayor's plan is approved, that doesn't completely kill SkyTrain all the way to UBC as one phase, does it? Say if they were able to secure additional provincial or federal funding.

I wonder if Skytrain will ever go down NORTH-SOUTH on major streets like Granville, or Fraser, or Oak Street? Cause they've got Cambie St. with the C-Line, I wonder if they would ever expand on the other streets as well for Skytrain? That would eventually make the Skytrain Station more complete within the city. More robust.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Vancity

I wonder if Skytrain will ever go down NORTH-SOUTH on major streets like Granville, or Fraser, or Oak Street? Cause they've got Cambie St. with the C-Line, I wonder if they would ever expand on the other streets as well for Skytrain? That would eventually make the Skytrain Station more complete within the city. More robust.

Probably, as a relief measure once the Canada Line reaches capacity. Likely won't be for a long time though, as its capacity still has the potential to triple before it can't be upgraded anymore.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Vancity

I wonder if Skytrain will ever go down NORTH-SOUTH on major streets like Granville, or Fraser, or Oak Street? Cause they've got Cambie St. with the C-Line, I wonder if they would ever expand on the other streets as well for Skytrain? That would eventually make the Skytrain Station more complete within the city. More robust.

I'm sure it will. though that is decades and decades away, as it should be. there is no need for another north-south line as of now, and for the foreseeable future.

i think the TransLink RRT map has good locations for stations. i am happy with the map and station locations. option B of course, an extension. wasn't that planned back when the millennium line was originally built? i always hear about how Evergreen Line was an extension, but not much about Broadway, if it was indeed part of the plan.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vancity

I wonder if Skytrain will ever go down NORTH-SOUTH on major streets like Granville, or Fraser, or Oak Street? Cause they've got Cambie St. with the C-Line, I wonder if they would ever expand on the other streets as well for Skytrain? That would eventually make the Skytrain Station more complete within the city. More robust.

That's what the Arbutus corridor would be for. It's also a good distance from Cambie to prevent too much overlap in catchment.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

I'm sure it will. though that is decades and decades away, as it should be. there is no need for another north-south line as of now, and for the foreseeable future.

i think the TransLink RRT map has good locations for stations. i am happy with the map and station locations. option B of course, an extension. wasn't that planned back when the millennium line was originally built? i always hear about how Evergreen Line was an extension, but not much about Broadway, if it was indeed part of the plan.

I think it was. The Millennium Line was envisioned as the "T" line, connecting UBC to Coquitlam, with a line down to New Westminster in along the middle. I think now the only reason there's been talk about starting a separate line from Commercial-Broadway station is because of the location of VCC-Clark station missing Clark and Fraser along Broadway.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Well, cities like London must have it all wrong then, will ridiculous names like the Bakerloo, Picadilly and Metropolitan line.

Cities like Vienna go with a numbered system eg U1, U2, U3. Typical Teutonic no-nonsense efficiency, methinks. Other cities like HK name their lines based on terminating /origination station (Tsuen Wan and Tung Chung lines) and geographic (Island line, East Rail, West rail).

Candidly, I haven't noticed that names vs numbering of lines really makes any difference in how I navigate a metro system that I'm unfamiliar with. The system map is more important for me.

But seriously, if people are getting lost on Skytrain, heaven help them if they ever take the metro in London, Paris, Tokyo, Seoul or Shanghai....

Not everybody is travel savvy like you! In fact many people have very poor sense of direction.( which by the way has nothing to do with one's intelligence). Transit route needs to be as specific as possible. Subway in London system is soooo old, and British are notoriously traditional, so they just stick to the old way. But there is also a newer way and a better way to name transit line. Therefore the subway line in Hong Kong is never confusing.
Embrace changes, improvements.
Too late for Expo line, Millenium line because all signage are up. But Evergreen still can change .
Dont just rely on locals to give you direction, One time I was in Civita , Italy.
Trying to take train to cruise terminal and gets hoplessly confused. So I asked two local, who both assure me the right direction to go to cruise. 20 minutes later... i find myself end up in same central station i originate.