The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Beedok

But isn't Southern Ontario like one of the only parts of the country without inter-city bus monopolies? You've got Greyhound and Coach Canada for most of it and Go for a big chunk of the population. As far as I could tell for most of the prairies at least it's Greyhound, and only Greyhound.

In Saskatchewan there is STC, which is a government owned company. I can’t remember off the top of my head whether Manitoba has something similar, but they probably do.
http://www.stcbus.com/



In Alberta there are some private companies, most notably Red Arrow.
http://www.redarrow.ca/

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Allan83

In Saskatchewan there is STC, which is a government owned company. I can’t remember off the top of my head whether Manitoba has something similar, but they probably do.
http://www.stcbus.com/



In Alberta there are some private companies, most notably Red Arrow.
http://www.redarrow.ca/

I was saying 'for the most part' because I knew about the STC (which if I was reading the maps I saw right doesn't tend to compete with Greyhound and instead services other routes, but I'm not certain). I didn't realise Alberta had some alternatives though (I was only on the edge of the province).

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I was saying 'for the most part' because I knew about the STC (which if I was reading the maps I saw right doesn't tend to compete with Greyhound and instead services other routes, but I'm not certain). I didn't realise Alberta had some alternatives though (I was only on the edge of the province).

STC has a bit of a tricky relationship with Greyhound, because it is government owned. In the past Greyhound has complained and threatened to pull out of the province, but some kind of deal was made. I don’t know where that balance is at these days. I haven’t lived in the province for a long time, but at one point anyway STC served the most routes in Saskatchewan including all the major ones.

I’m not really up on the state of the industry in Alberta either I'm afraid, other than that I know there are a number of smaller private companies as well.
http://www.jandlshuttle.com/

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I was saying 'for the most part' because I knew about the STC (which if I was reading the maps I saw right doesn't tend to compete with Greyhound and instead services other routes, but I'm not certain). I didn't realise Alberta had some alternatives though (I was only on the edge of the province).

Alberta had regulated competition for awhile, with maximum number of runs on the busy routes to cross subsidize minimum numbers of runs on other routes. The Bus Modernization Program removed these restrictions and the market is now deregulated.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Beedok

But isn't Southern Ontario like one of the only parts of the country without inter-city bus monopolies? You've got Greyhound and Coach Canada for most of it and Go for a big chunk of the population. As far as I could tell for most of the prairies at least it's Greyhound, and only Greyhound.

Not the Prairies, but in the Maritimes, we have Maritime Bus. It's the company that started up after the Irvings sold Acadian to Orleans out of Quebec, and Orleans ran it into the ground.

I haven't used it yet, but they do seem to be doing their best to improve inter-city transit in the Maritimes and make the rural routes work, or at least be less of a loss.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I was saying 'for the most part' because I knew about the STC (which if I was reading the maps I saw right doesn't tend to compete with Greyhound and instead services other routes, but I'm not certain). I didn't realise Alberta had some alternatives though (I was only on the edge of the province).

I guess GO Transit and Ontario Northland would count in Ontario. While GO could be considered a commuter service, its service area is large enough for it to be considered an inter-city coach service in my book (e.g. to take a bus from Kitchener or Guelph to Oshawa or Peterborough, you can use GO buses exclusively)

Question for the Thunder Bay folks: Did Ontario Northland ever service anything west of Sudbury or Hearst?

[Chadillaccc]

Awesome development for the Calgary Region...


Regional bus network to be tested in proposed pilot project
BY JASON MARKUSOFF, CALGARY HERALD OCTOBER | 31, 2014 11:02 AM

Commuters and shoppers from towns south of Calgary could soon be testing out a proposed bus network linking to a Calgary LRT station.

Pitched as a one-year or two-year pilot project, if councils and their partnership group approves it, this will be the first major multi-city transit initiative since mayors began musing about regional service more than six years ago.

Daily buses from Nanton, Turner Valley and Black Diamond would stop in Okotoks en route to Calgary — the rush hours would be a focus, but early research and surveys suggest demand for midday trips as well, said Ettore Iannacito, regional transit program manager with the Calgary Regional Partnership.

The $500,000 trial, which could launch next fall or spring 2016, is funded through a provincial collaboration grant and will likely carry the region’s new On It transit brand, which the partnership hopes eventually becomes a major force like southern Ontario’s GO Transit.

“For the smaller municipalities, it’s a lot more formidable for them to do it on their own,” Iannacito said.

He’s been drafting a business case, preliminary schedules and route maps, to present to the regional alliance next month. A private bus company would be contracted to run standard 12-metre-long buses for service perhaps as early as 5 a.m. from Nanton and dropping off the last customers in Black Diamond around 7 p.m.

Full story: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...oposed+pilot+project/10339902/story.html




The long term vision for the Calgary Regional Partnership is to eventually have commuter rail South to Okotoks and high River, North to Airdrie and Crossfield, and Northwest to Cochrane. So this is a great first step. Airdrie already has public municipal commuter transit to Calgary, called the "Airdrie Ice."

[1overcosc]

It should work well. Ottawa has a large network of rural commuter buses serving exurban areas with very low populations that remain viable. Some routes serve communities with populations as low as 2,000 people. If that can work in Ottawa I don't see why it can't in Calgary given the relatively similar demographic profile of the regions. Plus I gather Calgary's exurbs are bigger (ie. Airdrie and Okotoks have a lot more people than equivalent exurban communities in Ottawa).

[Chadillaccc]

Three of the communities mentioned in the article are all just over 2000 people. The nexus of the network will be Okotoks with about 30 000 people, and the final destination will be Calgary. So hopefully it works. If only Alberta had the same provincial support for transit that Ontario does. The cities there are very lucky.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It should work well. Ottawa has a large network of rural commuter buses serving exurban areas with very low populations that remain viable. Some routes serve communities with populations as low as 2,000 people. If that can work in Ottawa I don't see why it can't in Calgary given the relatively similar demographic profile of the regions. Plus I gather Calgary's exurbs are bigger (ie. Airdrie and Okotoks have a lot more people than equivalent exurban communities in Ottawa).

Airdrie also has about 50,000, but Crossfield has only about 3000. It surprises me a little that it would go that far north, but there are other communities around there that might add up to enough.

[1overcosc]

The business plan Ottawa's commuter buses use is to fund the far-flung routes with very high fares (often charging rates like $10-$15 one way and $250-$300 per month), appealing to downtown commuters who would have to pay about that for downtown parking anyway. Most are funded entirely through private money, except for the municipally owned and subsidized systems in Russell and Clarence-Rockland (the latter actually has very good service--a bus every 15 minutes or so for the entire 3 hours of each peak period).

Given that Calgary has an even higher concentration of downtown employment, and even higher downtown parking rates, than Ottawa, combined with cheaper gas that should make the operating cost of commuter buses lower, I'd imagine copying the Ottawa model would work even better in Calgary.

Originally Posted by Allan83

Airdrie also has about 50,000, but Crossfield has only about 3000. It surprises me a little that it would go that far north, but there are other communities around there that might add up to enough.

The largest community served by Ottawa's commuter bus network is Rockland, with a population of about 15,000 people or so.

[Chadillaccc]

The thing is though, nothing south of the city is part of the CMA, so the commuter rates are lower than Ottawa's commuter routes for its CMA.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The business plan Ottawa's commuter buses use is to fund the far-flung routes with very high fares (often charging rates like $10-$15 one way and $250-$300 per month), appealing to downtown commuters who would have to pay about that for downtown parking anyway. Most are funded entirely through private money, except for the municipally owned and subsidized systems in Russell and Clarence-Rockland (the latter actually has very good service--a bus every 15 minutes or so for the entire 3 hours of each peak period).

Given that Calgary has an even higher concentration of downtown employment, and even higher downtown parking rates, than Ottawa, combined with cheaper gas that should make the operating cost of commuter buses lower, I'd imagine copying the Ottawa model would work even better in Calgary.

Good to know!

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The thing is though, nothing south of the city is part of the CMA, so the commuter rates are lower than Ottawa's commuter routes for its CMA.

Yeah, but Okotoks is twice the size of Rockland, so even if the percentage of people who work in Calgary is lower there are still probably enough of them.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The thing is though, nothing south of the city is part of the CMA, so the commuter rates are lower than Ottawa's commuter routes for its CMA.

Most of Ottawa's commuter routes are outside the CMA borders too. Some are so far flung I honestly wonder how they are viable. For example there's one bus that services Alexandria which only has about 3,000 people and is almost 100 kilometres east of downtown--and about 50km past the eastern edge of the CMA!

Here's a page listing them all: http://www.octranspo1.com/riding-with-oc-transpo/rural_partner_routes

[eemy]

Hawkesbury, Alexandria and Cornwall are all almost equidistant from Ottawa and Montreal to the extent that I wonder if one of them might have commuter service to both cities. I wonder how many places could claim that?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Hawkesbury, Alexandria and Cornwall are all almost equidistant from Ottawa and Montreal to the extent that I wonder if one of them might have commuter service to both cities. I wonder how many places could claim that?

Does the City of Ottawa fund this entirely on its own? The province should be providing services that go beyond the city. After all, GO Transit has services to small communities outside Toronto.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Does the City of Ottawa fund this entirely on its own? The province should be providing services that go beyond the city. After all, GO Transit has services to small communities outside Toronto.

These are privately operated bus services. They are not funded by the City of Ottawa.

[ssiguy]

Kind of silly that Okotoks, Cochrane, and Chestemere already don't have some sort of connecting buses to Calgary as they are really just commuter towns.

[manny_santos]

Kingston Transit has picked route numbers 701 and 702 for the next phase of its express service. Surprising they didn't pick 503 and 504, but perhaps they wanted to minimize confusion with 501 and 502.