Calgary Public Transit II

[technomad]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How many people are going to fly into Calgary and take high speed rail to Edmonton? Or fly to Edmonton and take it to Calgary? Why wouldn't they fly to the city they are going to? Even Rad Dear has flight connections. Seams like it would be redundant. I'd think it would be better to run LRT to airport, and leave the high speed rail with fewer stops.

If the line is going to have a suburban stop in between, why not link in the airports? These areas also already have large travel facilities like parking , hotels, restaurants, etc. HSR could be used for a lot of inter-city meetings, training, conferences, etc, and not everyone can afford to host downtown.

While I don't think we'd see a lot of HSR used as a last leg for flights right away, future expansion at YYC is limited. Specializing some routes to either city long term may make more sense than trying to expropriate to expand runways. (ie run all polar flights out of YEG, Asian out of YYC)

In the short term, HSR links make a weather closure at either airport easier to handle by being able to land at the other airport and quickly shuttle passengers to their intended destination.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Allan83

I think the whole green line should be a priority, but what was the time savings on the NC part? If it has 3x as many riders, but they only save 1/3 the time, then I’m not sure it provides any more value. I think we should be measuring these routes more in terms of person-minutes saved. The SETWAY offers the advantage of a brand new road that cuts through a maze of railway tracks, freeways, and a river, which give it a big advantage over driving the long way around on congested roads like Deerfoot and Glenmore. It would produce big time savings for this reason, and it would be a premium ride on a smooth dedicated roadway. I think it would attract a lot more riders than they’ve predicted, and I think it would push forward the redevelopment of Inglewood, the Crossroads Market area, Lynnwood, Ogden (I’ve heard a rumour that CP may be planning more developments on their land), the mall and area around the Glenmore Inn, and maybe more between there and QP.

How does one plan to ensure that a roadway in Calgary be smooth year round? The current road network is hard enough to maintain due to the weather. How do we plan to keep a piece of critical infrastructure running smooth 365 days a year?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by technomad

If the line is going to have a suburban stop in between, why not link in the airports? These areas also already have large travel facilities like parking , hotels, restaurants, etc. HSR could be used for a lot of inter-city meetings, training, conferences, etc, and not everyone can afford to host downtown.

While I don't think we'd see a lot of HSR used as a last leg for flights right away, future expansion at YYC is limited. Specializing some routes to either city long term may make more sense than trying to expropriate to expand runways. (ie run all polar flights out of YEG, Asian out of YYC)

In the short term, HSR links make a weather closure at either airport easier to handle by being able to land at the other airport and quickly shuttle passengers to their intended destination.

What I'm saying is it is a lot more likely that LRT will be used by people to go to the airport than HSR. HSR is to quickly transport Calgarians to Edmonton and vice versa. I just can't see much point in having an airport stop on HSR. For the small number of days weather is an issue, I'm sure people will be more than happy transferring form LRT to HSR if it means they get home.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What I'm saying is it is a lot more likely that LRT will be used by people to go to the airport than HSR. HSR is to quickly transport Calgarians to Edmonton and vice versa. I just can't see much point in having an airport stop on HSR. For the small number of days weather is an issue, I'm sure people will be more than happy transferring form LRT to HSR if it means they get home.

The cost of building a low speed spur will be similar whether connecting to LRT or HSR. The hypothetical HSR line will have far more spare capacity, however, and will not mess up the timings of the LRT network. It would also be faster and able to use more suitable rolling stock.

[DizzyEdge]

Is enhanced transit to the airport really a priority? I find the 300 works well, and all BRTs and LRTs hit downtown where it originates. Even Toronto is just working on getting something better than bus service and they're more than double our population.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think it is, but if we are going to do it, we shouldn't screw up other things while we do due to conventional wisdom.

[milomilo]

Well the 300 sucks, IMO. I know the first time I visited Calgary I was very disappointed in it. Having to buy a ticket from Mac's I'm sure everyone can agree is stupid, and there was very little directions to it. The bus then takes a route down some shitty ugly roads and takes an age before finally dropping you somewhere downtown at a bus stop on the side of the road rather than a transit hub with options for the rest of your journey. Hardly a great first impression for newcomers.

In comparison, getting the skytrain in Vancouver was a pleasure and an awesome first impression of the city.

I know airport rail is a hard sell if you just look at passenger numbers, but don't we all keep saying Calgary should start acting like a big city?

[MalcolmTucker]

When the airport is willing to throw in $300 million, lets think about it. Without YVR's contribution, transit to their airport would still be by bus.

[CTrainDude]

And would SkyTrain really go to YVR if it didn't have the Olympics. I doubt it. Even during the Olympics, ridership is so low, they only built one track there. Really there's no good justification for LRT to YYC, just as Vancouver.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Well the 300 sucks, IMO. I know the first time I visited Calgary I was very disappointed in it. Having to buy a ticket from Mac's I'm sure everyone can agree is stupid, and there was very little directions to it. The bus then takes a route down some shitty ugly roads and takes an age before finally dropping you somewhere downtown at a bus stop on the side of the road rather than a transit hub with options for the rest of your journey. Hardly a great first impression for newcomers.

In comparison, getting the skytrain in Vancouver was a pleasure and an awesome first impression of the city.

I know airport rail is a hard sell if you just look at passenger numbers, but don't we all keep saying Calgary should start acting like a big city?

OK this I will agree with. One thing that is severely lacking with Calgary is a central transportation hub. Would love to see LRT, BRT, Greyhound, Red Arrow, future HSR all at one hub. Would love to see the Scotia bank building at the NE corner of Stephen Ave and 2nd St SW be a hub for the existing and future LRTs at the very least.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

When the airport is willing to throw in $300 million, lets think about it. Without YVR's contribution, transit to their airport would still be by bus.

Fair enough.

At the very least though, they need to improve the passenger experience of the 300 (calling it BRT is a lie frankly) at the airport. By actually signposting it, making it visible and being able to buy tickets on the bus or adjacent to it.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Fair enough.

At the very least though, they need to improve the passenger experience of the 300 (calling it BRT is a lie frankly) at the airport. By actually signposting it, making it visible and being able to buy tickets on the bus or adjacent to it.

All things that are underway or already completed. Last I'd heard the new ticket kiosk should be in place already or fairly soon, and there is some new signage coming inside and outside the terminal.

[MMMBeer]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

And would SkyTrain really go to YVR if it didn't have the Olympics. I doubt it. Even during the Olympics, ridership is so low, they only built one track there. Really there's no good justification for LRT to YYC, just as Vancouver.

+1. I've ridden the 300 a couple of times and it's an OK service for what it is. However it has limited appeal, and so would a train service for the following reasons (in my opinion):

- Business travelers who can expense a cab ride will never take the bus/train. Ever.
- Leisure travelers with a) kids, b) lots of luggage, c) no knowledge of the transit system (or any combo of a, b or c) will never take the bus or train. Ever.
- Leisure travelers who live nowhere near an easy connection to the 300 route / future train line will will never take the bus/train. Ever.

Your target market for airport passengers is therefore limited to airport workers with no cheap/free parking, transit nerds (like me), extreme cheapskates, and leisure travelers with light luggage who aren't afraid of the transit system. Pretty small market IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 300 but there's plenty of projects money could be spent on ahead of any train to YYC.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by MMMBeer

- Business travelers who can expense a cab ride will never take the bus/train. Ever.

I disagree with this (in the case of YVR). I take it downtown every time I'm there on business, even though I could expense a cab. With the traffic in Vancouver, it is usually a faster way to get downtown and even with no traffic it's comparable. Most business travellers pack light and it is a short walk to the main hotels from Waterfront Station or Van Centre. I'd also say that business travellers would tend to be more familiar with the city and therefore more comfortable taking transit. In fact I'd say that most people I see on the trains to the airport are either business types or YVR employees.

I agree with your thoughts about leisure travellers and tourists though.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I disagree with this (in the case of YVR). I take it downtown every time I'm there on business, even though I could expense a cab. With the traffic in Vancouver, it is usually a faster way to get downtown and even with no traffic it's comparable. Most business travellers pack light and it is a short walk to the main hotels from Waterfront Station or Van Centre. I'd also say that business travellers would tend to be more familiar with the city and therefore more comfortable taking transit. In fact I'd say that most people I see on the trains to the airport are either business types or YVR employees.

I agree with your thoughts about leisure travellers and tourists though.

Many business travellers are also working as independent contractors, or for very small businesses, or for some governments and public agencies; in all 3 cases, costs are very important to the bottom line. Even if a cab can be expensed, if a reasonable alternative can be taken for much less money, why not? I expect that someone working for a big 4 bank or a major oil company won't care as much.

There are tradeoffs between cost and convenience for transit and taxis, and the user will weigh cost and convenience differently depending on factors such as:

• Who is paying for the ticket
• Amount of luggage
• Total price for the travelling group
• How convenient and legible the transit trip is
• How accessible the transit stop is, both at the airport and to their destination
• How long the relative travel times are

In any case, the airport transit market will always be relatively small.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Many business travellers are also working as independent contractors, or for very small businesses, or for some governments and public agencies; in all 3 cases, costs are very important to the bottom line. Even if a cab can be expensed, if a reasonable alternative can be taken for much less money, why not? ....

In that case there is the airport shuttle for $20. Functions like transit as it's cheaper than a cab and you have some riding buddies but has the best traits of a taxi where it basically takes you directly to the airport and you can lug all your luggage with you.

I worked at a major hotel downtown for the past year and I actively promoted transit to the airport whenever a guest wasn't sure how they wanted to get there. In a years time absolutely no one took me up on it. Frankly, travelers in a strange city have too much else going on to put up with the nonsense involved in taking a bus to the airport. Maybe I could have convinced a few to take the LRT if it ran there but I strongly doubt enough would to justify the cost.

[mellbell416]

Sorry if this seems to be coming from left field, but I had to vent...but am I the only one who HATES taking public transit from the University of Calgary at night? I have been out there for various things - evening classes, time at the University gym facilities and at the Rocza Theatre for the arts events. Every time I have to leave, my first thought is, "How the hell do I get out of here?" The campus is a sprawling thing thing with pathways that go everywhere with no clearly marked trails to either the bus depot or the LRT - and it is a spooky thing to walk them at night with few souls around you. After 6pm, the bus depot is quite a graveyard - no buses with frequent service. If you miss your bus, you are in for a very long wait until the next one. The LRT is a lot better that way, but I seem to get myself often lost on my way there.

I dunno - I am sure that it is fine if you go there all the time and know your way around, but the University could do a waaaay better job of signposting routes or painting guidelines on the pathways to at least the LRT and the bus depot. It does have a few lonely maps posted at various locations, but that is it. It is nowhere near good enough, especially when you think of the thousands of people who travel through everyday.

[UofC.engineer]

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/915690/...-buses-to-come-equipped-with-bike-racks/

Hallelujah!!! It's about time! I find it sad that it is 2014 and only a couple of our bus routes have bike racks. This will help out a lot.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by mellbell416

Sorry if this seems to be coming from left field, but I had to vent...but am I the only one who HATES taking public transit from the University of Calgary at night? I have been out there for various things - evening classes, time at the University gym facilities and at the Rocza Theatre for the arts events. Every time I have to leave, my first thought is, "How the hell do I get out of here?" The campus is a sprawling thing thing with pathways that go everywhere with no clearly marked trails to either the bus depot or the LRT - and it is a spooky thing to walk them at night with few souls around you. After 6pm, the bus depot is quite a graveyard - no buses with frequent service. If you miss your bus, you are in for a very long wait until the next one. The LRT is a lot better that way, but I seem to get myself often lost on my way there.

I dunno - I am sure that it is fine if you go there all the time and know your way around, but the University could do a waaaay better job of signposting routes or painting guidelines on the pathways to at least the LRT and the bus depot. It does have a few lonely maps posted at various locations, but that is it. It is nowhere near good enough, especially when you think of the thousands of people who travel through everyday.

Largely I think the university has failed Calgary on promoting forward-thinking, active modes transportation. The Actual campus is very walkable, but almost no effort has been made to connect it to areas around it in anything but auto-oriented fashion. This should be the centre of a NW bike-lane network with all the students in the area, there should be rapid buses and connections at all times of day, not just LRT.

Hopefully the NW HUB plan will help with this. As of right now, the University is the biggest underperformer in spreading the urban lifestyle outside of the core.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by MasterG

As of right now, the University is the biggest underperformer in spreading the urban lifestyle outside of the core.

Providing a U-Pass for their academic- and non-academic- staff would be a start. I take transit more than I drive there but it's no cost savings for me and neither is it more convenient- I do it for the exercise, walk from home in Bankview to DT and back to take the LRT.

I find mellbell's comment interesting- since my office is in SocSci (9th floor) and faces east, I can see the station from my desk and have for almost 14 years now. So I don't find the LRT station difficult to find, obviously, but it does occur to me that it's SO far from the centre of campus and if one has a class in, say, KN, that can be a solid kilometre.