The Great Canadian Skyline Thread! II

[Chadillaccc]

I wasn't talking about houses, I was talking about commercial buildings. I thought that was completely obvious as I didn't mention a single house or residential street in reference to either city.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Isaidso, Calgary has an entire 5-block stretch of buildings built over a century ago right in the core, with several mid-rise and high rise buildings from 1915 and earlier nearby as well, and several nearby streets with entire blocks of century old buildings.

Yes, I know that. The point that seems to have escaped everyone is that Hamilton is a far older city than Calgary, so it's only to be expected that it has tons more old historic building stock... and it does. The only western city that would have as much is Winnipeg. That's not a slight against Calgary it's just a reality due to circumstance.

[Chadillaccc]

Of course. I think we (or at least me) only responded because you lumped us in with suburban nightmares with no history or historic buildings of any kind like Mississauga and Brampton. The opposite would be like saying Hamilton is exactly like Quebec City or Vancouver, which just isn't true.

Edit: I don't know why I have such an overwheling urge to defend the city(s) in which I live. I did this with Vancouver too, but nowhere near the extent I do with Calgary. I guess it's just more common for people to take wet shits on Calgary more than Van is why, not saying that this is a wet shit case, just a case I'm defending Calgary against nothing...

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Of course. I think we (or at least me) only responded because you lumped us in with suburban nightmares with no history or historic buildings of any kind like Mississauga and Brampton. The opposite would be like saying Hamilton is exactly like Quebec City or Vancouver, which just isn't true.

Well people should have realized that it was clearly an argument about the amount of historic building stock. There was no reason to get defensive.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I wasn't talking about houses, I was talking about commercial buildings. I thought that was completely obvious as I didn't mention a single house or residential street in reference to either city.

You said "historic building stock". Residential neighbourhoods are an important feature when taking into account the urban fabric of a city. I don't really see the point in claiming Calgary and Hamilton are comparable in this respect if we are only limiting it to commercial buildings over a certain size or whatever. If you do want to go that route then you can consider the extent of older main street style commercial, or factory/warehouse structures.

Hamilton is a more historic city than Calgary in just about every respect. It is painfully obvious when going through the lower city. This isn't a knock on Calgary - it's just a thing. You could make a convincing argument that part of the reason is Calgary's relative recent success in comparison with Hamilton.

[Chadillaccc]

I'm not sure what you mean by recent... you mean the last 60 - 70 years?

No one was saying Calgary is more historic, I was only saying our historic landmarks are not to be under estimated and are comparable to Hamilton's. I guess I just didn't take into account the pre-war houses because I don't consider them landmark structures. Though we do have several neighbourhoods with incredible historic housing stock, Mission being the best example. Nothing like Hamilton's though I suppose. You guys are talking like I've never been to Hamilton, even though I've mentioned on here many times that I grew up in Woodstock, 40 minutes from Hamilton.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I'm not sure what you mean by recent... you mean the last 60 - 70 years?

No one was saying Calgary is more historic, I was only saying our historic landmarks are not to be under estimated and are comparable to Hamilton's. I guess I just didn't take into account the pre-war houses because I don't consider them landmark structures. Though we do have several neighbourhoods with incredible historic housing stock, Mission being the best example. Nothing like Hamilton's though I suppose. You guys are talking like I've never been to Hamilton, even though I've mentioned on here many times that I grew up in Woodstock, 40 minutes from Hamilton.

By recent I was essentially referring to post-war, so yeah 60-70 years. While Hamilton's steel industry was still going strong for a lot of this period, it's ascendency was concentrated prior to the 1960s.

Mission is a great neighbourhood - and it does seem to be one of the only older areas in Calgary with intact older residential streetscapes. It would be sad to see those houses go, as I think they have much more character than the infill that dominates many of the other inner-city neighbourhoods. That being said, most infill generally is of better quality than what it replaced.

I knew you were from Ontario, but have no idea what experiences you have with Hamilton. From my experience most Southern Ontarian's don't know a whole lot about the city aside from the view from the Skyway. I only really explored it for the first time 3 years ago with a friend who grew up there.

[The_Architect]

Crazy to think that for a while Hamilton was actually bigger than Toronto..

Actually given its setting that would make sesne.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Mississauga skyline looking huge from the airport.

Cool! Here's one I took from a similar spot (inside terminal 1)


Mississauga Skyline from Pearson Airport by haljackey, on Flickr

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by niwell

By recent I was essentially referring to post-war, so yeah 60-70 years. While Hamilton's steel industry was still going strong for a lot of this period, it's ascendency was concentrated prior to the 1960s.

Mission is a great neighbourhood - and it does seem to be one of the only older areas in Calgary with intact older residential streetscapes. It would be sad to see those houses go, as I think they have much more character than the infill that dominates many of the other inner-city neighbourhoods. That being said, most infill generally is of better quality than what it replaced.

I knew you were from Ontario, but have no idea what experiences you have with Hamilton. From my experience most Southern Ontarian's don't know a whole lot about the city aside from the view from the Skyway. I only really explored it for the first time 3 years ago with a friend who grew up there.

Sunnyside, specifically the part fronting Memorial, also has some incredible houses. Mission isn't going anywhere. There are also the neighbourhoods of Cliff Bungalow, Upper Mount Royal, Lower Mount Royal, Roxboro, Elbow Park, etc. which have huge stocks of historic houses. I haven't spent much time in Inglewood but I would imagine they have a fair share too? But then again, maybe not.

I spent a fair bit of time in Hamilton. Would like to spend more time there next time I'm home, I'm not sure if I have any friends who live there anymore though. Most Southern Ontarian's usually don't know very much about any of the other cities other than their own (or their core city if they're from a satellite city) and and Toronto, at least in my generation.

[oiler-dude]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7438/9830487774_49d32548a6_b.jpg)
by brengt2

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

That tower in Edmonton is so high compared to everything else... sticks out like a sore thumb!

Is it the tower that is very high or just the rest of Edmonton that is comparatively low?

Just a quick re-visit on this. It's also a deceiving picture. As mentioned, The Pearl is a bit away from the core. The blue building in the core (Manulife Place), is actually almost 100' taller than The Pearl. But camera angle / lens / distance makes it seem way shorter.

Pearl is noticeable in the skyline, in an awesome way.

Carry on with the fantastic pictures.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Crazy to think that for a while Hamilton was actually bigger than Toronto..

Actually given its setting that would make sesne.

For a time Ancaster was the biggest city in southern ontario.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

DSC_0035 by Marie.L.Manzor on Flickr

What a great view!


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7438/9...d32548a6_b.jpg)
by brengt2

Holy cow, talk about an attention-seeker! Love it.

[Chadillaccc]

Love the Pearl, can't wait to see it fully clad by the spring, with the gorgeous copper-coloured hat on top! I'll get some close up pics this weekend!


The Bankers Hall twins lookin pretty spiffy in the winter sky last year!


http://liveincalgary.com/homes-and-commu...community-map/mission-and-cliff-bungalow

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Crazy to think that for a while Hamilton was actually bigger than Toronto..

Actually given its setting that would make sesne.

It's also historically been a wealthier city than Toronto. Even today, its median family income is about 13% higher. That's a shock to most people because they focus on Yorkville, Rosedale, and the CBD and wonder how that could be so. Those places aren't representative of Torontonian norms. Etobicoke is far more representative of Toronto overall.

2009 Median Total Income, by family type, by CMA
Hamilton $76,730
Toronto $68,110

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

No one was saying Calgary is more historic, I was only saying our historic landmarks are not to be under estimated and are comparable to Hamilton's.

The Palliser Hotel, Grain Exchange Building, and Calgary Public Building are quite nice...but that's about the extent of the city's pre-war landmark buildings, if I'm not mistaken. Compare that to Hamilton's Pigott Building, Royal Connaught Hotel, Cathedral of Christ the King, Dundurn Castle, Hamilton GO Centre, McMaster University - not to mention the thousands of miscellaneous commercial, warehouse, and institutional buildings, as well as some of the landmark residential properties (various mansions and the like). I mean, just look at this stuff....http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=207242

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Crazy to think that for a while Hamilton was actually bigger than Toronto..

Actually given its setting that would make sesne.

When? In 1816 Hamilton had 668 people, Toronto had 720 in 1813 (after the war); Hamilton had 1,000 in 1833, Toronto had 9,254 in 1834; in 1850 Hamilton had 10,248 and Toronto 30,000; in 1861 Hamilton had 19,096 and Toronto 65,085; in 1901 Hamilton had 51,561 and Toronto 238,080.

[Chadillaccc]

Yep, only 3 historic landmarks in the whole city. Well, you're the expert on Calgary obviously So I'll differ to your judgement. Except that the Lancaster and Hudson's Bay blocks are much bigger than 2 of the 3 buildings you mentioned, the Burns building is nearly as large, and our original city hall is still intact, among many other issues with that statement.


Nice Hamilton thread, stunning photos and buildings. I wish we had got the Art Deco craze here, instead we got Palladian and Edwardian :/

[brentwood]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Sunnyside, specifically the part fronting Memorial, also has some incredible houses.

The unique thing about Calgary, largely due to its relative youth in the North American context, is it has an extremely high density core surrounded by mainly residential districts that for the most part consist of first generation houses and commercial buildings. Most older cities would be well on their way to second, third or fourth generation structures and the corresponding increased densities that would entail.

Although there are some nice old original houses along the north side of Memorial Drive, really with where Calgary is headed in terms of growth, they are inappropriate for their location. Memorial between 14th St W and Centre Street should be lined with four or five storey apartments. Not unlike you find in the inner cities of most older NA cities. It will take decades to evolve into this along with the inevitable fights regarding increasing densities in established communities.

Calgary's historic building stock suffers due to its relative youth but also because most of its oldest structures, both residential and commercial, are inappropriately small (less dense) or poorly built in the context of the location and size of the growing city.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's also historically been a wealthier city than Toronto. Even today, its median family income is about 13% higher. That's a shock to most people because they focus on Yorkville, Rosedale, and the CBD and wonder how that could be so. Those places aren't representative of Torontonian norms. Etobicoke is far more representative of Toronto overall.

2009 Median Total Income, by family type, by CMA
Hamilton $76,730
Toronto $68,110

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

I don't think this is a fair stat to compare wealth. One thing that you find in Hamilton that is quite different than Toronto is that there are more complete families units. There is no onslaught of single people living (or moving en masse) in(to) apartments in Hamilton. Hamilton is not(yet) the "it" place for young singles, if you live as a single in Hamilton you more likely live in the basement of your mom and dads McMansion in Ancaster. There is no draw(yet) to live downtown on your own, and by that measure there will be a lot more single women in Toronto making 45k to 50k and single dudes as well per capita, which will bring down the household income of the city.

The family units in Hamilton are more complete. (ie. Mom, Dad, two kids, dog) You won't find that in Yorkville, Rosedale, High Park, North York, Etobicoke, etc, etc, its way more singles, or more correctly "single person households".

[Ashok]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Cool! Here's one I took from a similar spot (inside terminal 1)


Mississauga Skyline from Pearson Airport by haljackey, on Flickr

I can totally picture someone going "OMG! Toronto's skyline is HUGE!!!" and someone else being like, "No, that is their mini-skyline!"