New casino?

[coalminecanary]

Why would it surprise you? This is exactly the kind of behaviour to expect from casino operators, and to expect anything different from the OLG or any private operator they choose is absurd.

The OLG mandate to "increase revenue" is just a different way of saying they want to "increase the amount of money people lose" which is the number one priority of all casinos.

The OLG's other plans, including turning 5% of the non gambling population into gamblers, is akin to replacing the word "people" with the word "Ontarian". (They also want more lotteries - run privately, more kiosks, and internet gaming)

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Show me evidence of Windsor's success. From what I have read, there was a wave of success for a period of years when the money was pouring in from the U.S., and now that is all gone.

The mayor of Windsor was desribing the casino's continued success in this recent article in the Spec. The link to the article has been cited here several times so I would have assumed you would have gone to read it. Nonetheless, here is the URL link once again:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-comes-to-town

The mayor of Brantford also speaks to the benefits the casino has brought his community in the same article.

Naysayers go on about the evils of the casino, how it will cause an epidemic in problem gambling, crime and poverty. When the mayors of cities who have casinos talk of their experiences, all these false predictions and premonitions are completely debunked.

[coalminecanary]

Read more closely. These are anecdotes. Brantford mayor has been very clear: their downtown successes have been based on the things that they spent their kickback money on. We spend ours on potholes already. There has not been a single word from anyone pushing a Hamilton casino about investing the kickback into city building initiatives. So far the only person who has made a comment about spending the kickback was Bob Bratina's comments about propping up the horses.

Windsor saw great success back in the days when the americans came over in droves. In the article you quoted, the mayor of Windsor named one spinoff benefit, and it's one that is simply not available to us: "Americans come here, visit the casino, that’s a spinoff." Not only that, OLG's own numbers point to a huge decline in this benefit.

The main direct benefit he celebrates is the employment. But we can (and have already started to) attract far higher quality jobs than this - as long as we keep building our momentum.

Is it really worth the risk?

[coalminecanary]

http://www.newstips.org/2011/08/slot...nes-kill-jobs/

Every new slot machine at a Chicago casino will destroy one job each year, by taking money out of the consumer economy, according to John Warren Kindt, business professor at the University of Illinois at Champaign Urbana. Four thousand slots could mean forty thousand lost jobs over a decade.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Read more closely. These are anecdotes. Brantford mayor has been very clear: their downtown successes have been based on the things that they spent their kickback money on. We spend ours on potholes already. There has not been a single word from anyone pushing a Hamilton casino about investing the kickback into city building initiatives. So far the only person who has made a comment about spending the kickback was Bob Bratina's comments about propping up the horses.

Windsor saw great success back in the days when the americans came over in droves. In the article you quoted, the mayor of Windsor named one spinoff benefit, and it's one that is simply not available to us: "Americans come here, visit the casino, that’s a spinoff." Not only that, OLG's own numbers point to a huge decline in this benefit.

The main direct benefit he celebrates is the employment. But we can (and have already started to) attract far higher quality jobs than this - as long as we keep building our momentum.

Is it really worth the risk?

1200 jobs with average annual salary of $49,000 is nothing to be sneezed at. That's a nearly $60 million annual payroll to their staff.

Then there is the $10 million cut from the casino to be paid annually to the city. Not to mention the property taxes the resort would add to the city coffers.

[durandy]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

The OLG mandate to "increase revenue" is just a different way of saying they want to "increase the amount of money people lose" which is the number one priority of all casinos.

The MLSE's mandate to "increase revenue" is just a different way of saying they want to 'increase the amount of money people lose' which is the number one priority of all sports entertainment.

Insert whatever entertainment entity you want for MLSE and what's the big problem?

I'm concerned about problem gambling, but you haven't sold me with the economic argument. Can you show me that the majority of entertainment dollars currently spent are being kept in the city? I doubt they are. These aren't people who would otherwise be going to the AGH who instead will spend their money at the casino.

I'm also not at all excited about the lame Mercanti sales pitch but I also recognize it has absolutely no impact, since no one in the city has any power to approve the casino. It smacks of desparation to me, since other players are most likely making far more effective sales pitches to the people who will actually decide the issue.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

Speaking of ATMs, I was listening to Y108 and the morning show woman (Shawna?) was saying she went to Flamboro Downs, and the ATMs there only give out $50s. This really surprised me.

She was wrong. The ATM's at Flamboro only give out $20's. Some of the ATM's at Brantford casino give out $50's but that is only in the high limit table games area. Besides that most people have limits on their bank card for how much they can withdraw each day, with my primary bank I can only withdraw $400 per day and that would include any fees the ATM's charge.

[coalminecanary]

You are trying to compare non-casino entertainment spending as if it's currently leaving the community, because people are choosing to go to the ACC or to see movies shot by Americans. Sure, some of our entertainment dollars leave the city. But a lot of our discretionary spending stays here.

This is closer to the reality that casino hosts experience - the local businesses get shut out:

http://youtu.be/eNmEDYImYS0

What has driven our downtown renewal over the last 10 years? Local businesses.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

1200 jobs with average annual salary of $49,000 is nothing to be sneezed at. That's a nearly $60 million annual payroll to their staff.

Then there is the $10 million cut from the casino to be paid annually to the city. Not to mention the property taxes the resort would add to the city coffers.

What guarantee is there that those jobs will actually be people from Hamilton?

[drpgq]

I would also say that with regards to the Windsor nightclubs, from my friends from the Detroit area, that's driven by a 19 versus 21 drinking age and not the casino.

[markbarbera]

While it is sad to see a suffering restaurant in Niagara Falls, NY, that is an anecdotal account to say the least. It should also be pointed out that "documentary" was actually a thinly disguised commercial put forward by the anti-casino campaign in Ohio.

The experience in Windsor is completely the opposite, with the neighbouring dining and entertainment district thriving. The same can be said about Niagara Falls, Ontario. Maybe OLG knows how to do a casino that does not have negative impact on neighbouring businesses.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by drpgq

What guarantee is there that those jobs will actually be people from Hamilton?

Or that this number of jobs will actually be created?

And how many are lost doe to Flamborough downs closing?

The casino bidders have zero incentive to paint the full picture. If we say yes to a bidder, provide a location, and tho OLG chooses them, all of the decisions are made without Hamilton involvement.

I for one am not willing to put my future, nor the future of our city - especially the downtown - in the unguided hands of a casino operating group.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by drpgq

What guarantee is there that those jobs will actually be people from Hamilton?

Where else would they come from? Hotel resort employment is always locals.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Maybe OLG knows how to do a casino that does not have negative impact on neighbouring businesses.

Then why didn't they perform their magic spell on Brantford?

Brantford's successes were based solely on casino kickbacks and jobs.

We already earmarked our kickbacks, and we are moving a gaming facility within our borders, not just building a new one, so many of these jobs are simply moved, not created.

The casino parking lot is packed 365 days a year — even on Christmas. But its attendees don't tend to visit surrounding businesses, Prang said.

“The casino itself is the destination. We're not seeing a whole lot of spillover.”

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...-downtown.html

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

We already earmarked our kickbacks, and we are moving a gaming facility within our borders, not just building a new one, so many of these jobs are simply moved, not created.

The casino floor will be larger that the slots at Flamboro Downs, but the bulk of the new employment will be those working in other elements of the resort such as housekeeping, theatre and convention operations.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

You are trying to compare non-casino entertainment spending as if it's currently leaving the community, because people are choosing to go to the ACC or to see movies shot by Americans. Sure, some of our entertainment dollars leave the city. But a lot of our discretionary spending stays here.

This is closer to the reality that casino hosts experience - the local businesses get shut out:

http://youtu.be/eNmEDYImYS0

What has driven our downtown renewal over the last 10 years? Local businesses.

I go to the Seneca casino every couple of weeks. In fact I will be spending the long weekend there next week. I may not spend my money just outside the casino because there is nothing there, but I will be spending hundreds of dollars in the city shopping and dining. That Casino draws more people to the city than the falls does. It also employs thousands of people who contribute to the city.

[realcity]

coalmine, Flamboro is closing regardless, so those jobs are eventually gone. We need a casino complex to replace and even increase those jobs, if we say NO we lose it all.

[SteelTown]

Developer floats novel Hamilton casino idea – on a boat

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...idea-on-a-boat

A Hamilton man says he wants to bring a floating casino to the waterfront.

Don Maga says he’s purchased the storied Captain John’s – which has sat at the foot of Yonge St. in Toronto for years – with the intention of bringing it to the Hamilton Harbour.

Maga also says he intends to put in a bid with the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation to run a casino in the 300-foot, 85,000 square-foot vessel. However, if he’s unsuccessful on the casino front, he says he still plans to open a restaurant and banquet centre.

“First and foremost, it will be a place for people to come to, whether it’s a casino or not,” Maga said.

Maga has something of a history of coming up with big ideas for broken things.

Back in 2011 he said he was preparing to purchase the former Scott Park school, planning to create a community centre on the ground floor and rent out the upper stories. In the end the school was purchased by a Vancouver developer.

And in 2000, Maga tried to purchase and revive an old Volkswagen dealership at Cannon Street east that had sat empty for years. He dreamed of combining a fix-it-yourself auto repair shop with a new car dealership. That dream as well was never realized.

[thistleclub]

Floating Casino + Trial Balloon = Best Hovercraft Ever

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by realcity

coalmine, Flamboro is closing regardless, so those jobs are eventually gone. We need a casino complex to replace and even increase those jobs, if we say NO we lose it all.

This is not true. We can choose Flamborough as the site for a new casino. OLG has told us this. They say our slot revenues would go down 10-15% due to increased competition from Halton/Toronto/etc.

“The city could actually say, ‘We like it at Flamboro.' That likely doesn't open up the opportunities,” Phillips told The Spectator's editorial board.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...asino-decision

This is the opportunity we need to pursue. It opens the door for us to help lessen the impact on the racing, it doesn't screw with our rejuvenating downtown and it keeps slots revenue coming in.

The cost to us in lost slot revenues would be 440-660 thousand.

I thought this was a forum of progressive people who understood cities and what makes them successful...

The CBC deconstructed the Mercanti plan... it's worth a read.
http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...no-claims.html
They verify what I've been saying all along: be wary of salesmen's numbers.