The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by kwajo

They feel it is essential to the convention/tourism market to have some way of keeping people indoors between the various hotels and the trade and convention centre. I agree with you entirely though, I'd prefer not to see the tunnel built, as it would create a very vibrant pedestrian plaza area between Market Square and the Coast Guard site if they left it un-attached. I think that perhaps this is somewhere that if we as citizens should contact our councillors and suggest that if they are looking for pieces to cut out of the budget to save the city money while actually improving the city at the same time. Wanna get rid of $400,000 of wasteful spending? Done.

Nice weather and people will head outdoors instead of going down and back up a tunnel, and in bad weather people aren't going to be hanging around outside at the harbour no matter what. Downtown Montreal and Toronto have underground cities, and the result isn't empty downtown streets in good weather. If anything, I think the pedways keep downtown alive in bad weather, probably encouraging people to shop/eat downtown at lunch and after work when they can do so in comfort. Market Square and the City Market are both facilities that I think would suffer badly if business people needed to go outside in January to get to them.

I do agree though that $400k is a lot to spend at this point.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by phishy

I am guessing it will be Exxon, not Repsol. Overall, the end of an era, but I think great for Saint John. to have a giagantic worldclass company set up shop inour community means only good things. Hard for the Irvings to invest 7 billion in a new refinery, but to Exxon that is chump change. Having a big company like that, possible setting up east coast head office to serve the new england market, based here in Saint John, could be HUGE!

Not sure it's good news. Finance, IT, and admin jobs would be lost for sure as the overall management of those functions would go to head office, and the supporting local businesses such as consulting, audit, etc. would take a major hit. Maybe some day it would result in a new refinery being built, but short term I think it would result in pretty significant local job loss.

[mylesmalley]

Selling to Repsol or Exxon would mean the profits from the refinery would leave the province, big admin staff cuts, probably a big hit to the local and provincial tax base, and no guarantee of any future investment by the new buyer.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Also, I'm hearing more whispers about the refinery being sold to Repsol, from numerous different sources.

Something I touched on last week.

It's not just the refinery, it's Irving Oil as a whole. From what i've heard, it's 14Billion for the whole shebang: Refinery, Tankers, Gas Stations - everything.

[mylesmalley]

Dislike. Dislike. Dislike.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Selling to Repsol or Exxon would mean the profits from the refinery would leave the province, big admin staff cuts, probably a big hit to the local and provincial tax base, and no guarantee of any future investment by the new buyer.

I agree completely with this. If this deal goes through, you guys in SJ won't be seeing any "world headquarters" being built on the waterfront anytime soon.

Also, what are the third generation Irvings going to do with the $14B profit from this sale? There's certainly no guarantee that this money will be reinvested in NB. Old K.C. Irving was a provincial loyalist, his grandchildren I think not so much.........

This is very bad news for the whole province........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree completely with this. If this deal goes through, you guys in SJ won't be seeing any "world headquarters" being built on the waterfront anytime soon.

Also, what are the third generation Irvings going to do with the $14B profit from this sale? There's certainly no guarantee that this money will be reinvested in NB. Old K.C. Irving was a provincial loyalist, his grandchildren I think not so much.........

This is very bad news for the whole province........

You've got that right.

The whole reason this is occurring is because none of the sons (or grandchildren) know exactly what they're doing with the enterprise, both with Irving Oil and JDI. JDI, in particular, is bleeding red ink, but that's also partly to do with what they're invested in.

The sheer ineptitude, coupled with in-fighting amongst themselves and an unknowing-ness of what to do has ultimately led to this. It's not that surprising, but it's clearly a big deal for New Brunswick, and in particular Saint John.

If this deal does go through and Irving Oil is sold off, i'm not exactly sure what will happen to Saint John. JDI, of course, owns things like the Telegraph Journal and the media outlets associated, and it may only be a matter of time until things like those are sold off, if there are even buyers in the market.

[ErickMontreal]

I am shocked but since there's still no confirmation about the validity of the rumor I have decided, at this point, to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, if it appears that you guys are right it would literally be a disaster for the city as a whole causing the lost of several high paying white-collar jobs.

On a side note, they got a new website.

http://www.irvingoil.com/

[flwright]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

You've got that right.

The whole reason this is occurring is because none of the sons (or grandchildren) know exactly what they're doing with the enterprise, both with Irving Oil and JDI. JDI, in particular, is bleeding red ink, but that's also partly to do with what they're invested in.

The sheer ineptitude, coupled with in-fighting amongst themselves and an unknowing-ness of what to do has ultimately led to this. It's not that surprising, but it's clearly a big deal for New Brunswick, and in particular Saint John.

If this deal does go through and Irving Oil is sold off, i'm not exactly sure what will happen to Saint John. JDI, of course, owns things like the Telegraph Journal and the media outlets associated, and it may only be a matter of time until things like those are sold off, if there are even buyers in the market.

I got this note from a friend of mine at Irving Oil regarding the rumoured sale:

Not true, I was in a meeting and the rumour was squashed practically from the horse's mouth

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by flwright

I got this note from a friend of mine at Irving Oil regarding the rumoured sale:

Interesting. I figured my sources were rather reliable. Thanks for the heads up.

[kwajo]

Coast Guard site announcement is Monday, hopefully there are some new renderings!

[flwright]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Interesting. I figured my sources were rather reliable. Thanks for the heads up.

I had heard this rumour from a number of people, so you certainly weren't the only one with sources coroborating this. And who knows, this rumour squashing could simply be an attempt to quiet things down until the transaction is finalized or to avoid scaring off the buyer. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened either...

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by flwright

I had heard this rumour from a number of people, so you certainly weren't the only one with sources coroborating this. And who knows, this rumour squashing could simply be an attempt to quiet things down until the transaction is finalized or to avoid scaring off the buyer. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened either...

I have to pipe in here. A rumour is just that, a rumour. Unless we have facts to back something up, I wouldn't post "rumours". Years ago I ran a successful business. We ran a limited time sale that generated a lot of short term income which we planned to use for capital improvements to the business. Someone speculated we had fallen on hard times and needed money fast or we would go out of business. This turned into a "rumour" and had a very damaging affect on our business image - a rumour which was completely baseless.

No doubt Mr. Rocca knows what I'm talking about - earlier in this forum someone "heard a rumour" his condo project had halted construction.

So please, do not post rumours. If you have concrete factual things to offer, please do. Otherwise think twice. Rumours can be very damaging in ways you may not even realize.

[Fischbob]

Any news on the Coast Guard site announcement? I can't seem to find anything new online.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Any news on the Coast Guard site announcement? I can't seem to find anything new online.

Another rumour no doubt.
news.country94.ca reported a couple weeks ago an announcement may be forthcoming early in the new year because the city allocated $900,000 in the budget to fix the sea wall at the site.
Hope I'm wrong and they annouce it this week; however will not get my hopes up as it is already 5 years behind schedule.

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Another rumour no doubt.
news.country94.ca reported a couple weeks ago an announcement may be forthcoming early in the new year because the city allocated $900,000 in the budget to fix the sea wall at the site.
Hope I'm wrong and they annouce it this week; however will not get my hopes up as it is already 5 years behind schedule.

Perhaps. I also thought it was already Tuesday when I posted the above, which was why I was wondering about the lack of press about a supposed Monday announcement.

One can always be hopeful though

[kwajo]

Sorry about the disappointment, I had been told there was an press conference scheduled for Monday, but I guess it must have been wrong. It is forthcoming though, as mentioned it has been reported in the news that the money is budgeted for and it's just a matter of time now.

[Helladog]

There is a public notice in the paper today to amend 515-519 Westmorland Rd (McAllister Place) to permit a 5900 sq m expansion of the shopping area...anyone hear what this is for?

[michael_d40]

Applicant Zone Zone
Anderson 515-519 “SC” Sec. 39 To permit an
Architect Ltd. Westmorland Road Amendment expansion of
(for Cadillac McAllister Place
Fairview)
Apple 991 Fairville “I-4” “SC-2” To permit a new
Properties Ltd. Boulevard shopping centre

RECOMMENDATION:
That Common Council schedule the public hearings for the rezoning and Section
39 amendment applications of Anderson Architect Ltd. (515-519 Westmorland
Road), Apple Properties Ltd. (991 Fairville Boulevard) and Genivar Inc. (1925
Bayside Drive) for Monday, January 31, 2011 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council
Chamber, and refer the applications to the Planning Advisory Committee for
report and recommendation.
Respectfully submitted,
Ken Forrest, MCIP, RPP
Commissioner
Planning and Development

Thats all it says in Common Council about it...

[kwajo]

I noticed in the Mayor's 2010 recap in the TJ that he mentions that he expects another tower project from Rocca in the Uptown this year, I don't know whether he is just speaking about the second phase of the Harbourfront Residences or whether this is something new entirely. Any insight?