Canada Line | Completed

[officedweller]

Cool, thanks.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by nname

That's where I found most of the data.. but it doesn't say how long each train is though...

I found the info about "New Transit" standard in Japan on a document from Taipei metro e-learning website(Chinese only: http://e-learning.trtc.com.tw/Object/Forum/080801174907NILZN.doc, though I have no way to verify the accuracy of the information. It is likely that Yurikamome line is built according to the 1983-early 1990s New Transit standard there, that means each car MUST BE 8-9 meters long, 2.4 meters wide, and 3.3 meters height. You get the idea it is a toy train even shorter than our MK1. Also, it is a slow train, the original operation plan was 24 minutes for the 12-km 12 stations. Of course the line has been expanded another 2.8-km 4 stations for 6 extra minutes.

[metroXpress]

^ great find....

[Gordon]

Is there any information on Bus bay assignments at Brdgeport Station?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Is there any information on Bus bay assignments at Brdgeport Station?

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Documents/Maps/stn_exch/Bridgeport.ashx

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nova9

Within the zone you buy it for though, no? Not just throughout the entire system. I'm not too sure, I only ever travel in zone 1.

Not entirely true.

You buy 1-zone passes and you can use it in ANY zone. 1-zone means you must stay in whatever zone you FIRST VALIDATE it in.

They're more flexible than month passes as it depends on where you validate it each trip, instead of choosing which zone(s) you will use for the month.
If you're not making the same trip all the time, it's very useful.

For example, if you live in Zone 2 ( Burnaby/North Vancouver) you could choose to travel to Zone 1 (Vancouver) one day and zone 3 another. In fact, one trip in particular makes it interesting...

Using a 2-zone faresaver Start in North Vancouver (Zone 2), take the seabus to Vancouver (Zone 1), then take the Skytrain to Surrey (Zone 3). I THINK the faresaver will let you do this (as long as it's within 90 minutes).

Again, I'm not SURE, as when you validate the pass on Seabus, it may lock the ticket to Zone 1/2 but I'm pretty sure that if you start in Zone 2, you can travel through another zone to get to your destination. They only check the printed zone anyhow.

It's not "really" cheating the system, in my opinion, as you're essentially travelling from Zone 2 to zone 3, and there are limited ways to connect, except through Zone 1.

From a distance perspective, you're definitely getting good value out of a 2-zone faresaver, and you'd need a 3-zone month pass to do the same.

This is probably why the #28 bus drivers generally keep the bus in Zone 1 mode, even in Zone 2, so it forces 2-zone passes to be Zone 1/2, Unless you specifically ask for a Zone 2/3)

[GoogalieBear]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Using a 2-zone faresaver Start in North Vancouver (Zone 2), take the seabus to Vancouver (Zone 1), then take the Skytrain to Surrey (Zone 3). I THINK the faresaver will let you do this (as long as it's within 90 minutes).

Again, I'm not SURE, as when you validate the pass on Seabus, it may lock the ticket to Zone 1/2 but I'm pretty sure that if you start in Zone 2, you can travel through another zone to get to your destination. They only check the printed zone anyhow.

Doesn't the skytrain only travel through zone 1 and zone 3, so if you are checked after the train has travelled into zone 3 with a ticket that is stamped originating from zone 2, technically you could be charged, of course most likely you won't because they won't look that closely.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Not entirely true.

You buy 1-zone passes and you can use it in ANY zone. 1-zone means you must stay in whatever zone you FIRST VALIDATE it in.

They're more flexible than month passes as it depends on where you validate it each trip, instead of choosing which zone(s) you will use for the month.
If you're not making the same trip all the time, it's very useful.

For example, if you live in Zone 2 ( Burnaby/North Vancouver) you could choose to travel to Zone 1 (Vancouver) one day and zone 3 another. In fact, one trip in particular makes it interesting...

Using a 2-zone faresaver Start in North Vancouver (Zone 2), take the seabus to Vancouver (Zone 1), then take the Skytrain to Surrey (Zone 3). I THINK the faresaver will let you do this (as long as it's within 90 minutes).

Again, I'm not SURE, as when you validate the pass on Seabus, it may lock the ticket to Zone 1/2 but I'm pretty sure that if you start in Zone 2, you can travel through another zone to get to your destination. They only check the printed zone anyhow.

It's not "really" cheating the system, in my opinion, as you're essentially travelling from Zone 2 to zone 3, and there are limited ways to connect, except through Zone 1.

From a distance perspective, you're definitely getting good value out of a 2-zone faresaver, and you'd need a 3-zone month pass to do the same.

This is probably why the #28 bus drivers generally keep the bus in Zone 1 mode, even in Zone 2, so it forces 2-zone passes to be Zone 1/2, Unless you specifically ask for a Zone 2/3)

I think this is where the zone system Fails by only having 3 zones.

If you validate in North Van, but take the bus across the Second Narrows to Brentwood, that counts as a 2 zone trip, even though your bus makes only 1 or 2 stops in Vancouver. Continuing on to Scott Road makes it a 3 zone trip because you've now "touched" all 3 zones. But the zone number doesn't specify that you came from North Van, so yeah, I think you could get away with just a 2 zone ticket for the trip.

Same if you travel from Metrotown to Richmond Ikea. They are in the same zone, but you travel through zone 1, so it is a 2 zone trip. BUT, you could also go from Metrotown, through Vancouver, and on to Tsawwassen, a trip where you pass through all 3 zones, but it is a VALID 2 zone trip.

If you wanted, you could travel from Lougheed on Skytrain, all the way to Waterfront, take the Canada Line to Bridgeport, then take the 620 to Tsawwassen Ferries, all on a 2 zone faresaver ticket, that will be valid at all times during your trip (if you can do it in 90 minutes). It's valid even though you travel through all 3 zones. You are supposed to pay 3 zones, but there is no way to prove you had to at any single point on your trip. It doesn't work the same in reverse though. If you buy 2 zones in Tsawwassen, then the ticket is invalid while in zone 1.

If you started at Waterfront, took Canada Line to Bridgeport, then 620 to the Ferries, it's a 3 zone trip. A 2 zone won't be valid while you are on the 620. You are making a much shorter trip, but the way the zones are separated and numbered, you have to pay more.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by GoogalieBear

Doesn't the skytrain only travel through zone 1 and zone 3, so if you are checked after the train has travelled into zone 3 with a ticket that is stamped originating from zone 2, technically you could be charged, of course most likely you won't because they won't look that closely.

Skytrain travels through zone 1 in Vancouver, zone 2 in Burnaby/New Westminster, and zone 3 in Surrey.

It all depends what zone you started in, and at what point your ticket is checked.

If you start at Metrotown Station and buy a 2 zone cash fare (or validate a 2 zone fare saver) you can travel into Surrey, or you can travel into Downtown. You can even use the same ticket to go from Metrotown, go into Surrey, then travel all the way back past Metrotwon and into Downtown, all on the same 2 zone ticket. At any point of the trip your ticket is checked, it is valid.

You could even Validate a 2 zone ticket at Bridgeport Station, take the Canada Line into Waterfront, get on the Expo Line, and ride it to King George. At any single point on your trip, when inspected, a 2 zone ticket is valid. It is supposed to be a 3 zone trip, but there is no way to prove you broke the law. If your ticket is inspected at Scott Road, there is no way to know you went through Vancouver to get there, you could have taken the 410 into New West, then onto Expo Line (a valid 2 zone trip). But on top of that, there is no way to know your ticket is from Bridgeport and not Columbia station (both in the same zone).

[CLC]

Same if you travel from Metrotown to Richmond Ikea. They are in the same zone, but you travel through zone 1, so it is a 2 zone trip

A good example is #430, now a very popular limited stop route between Metrotown and Richmond Centre. At its inception I remembered a lot of riders with monthly pass for Zone 2 are unhappy when bus driver ask for addfare paid.

[CLC]

All Aboard the New Canada Line
The new SkyTrain to YVR is great news for most people. But whither the poor cabbie?

Steve Burgess | Image: Kelly Sutherland | Published: September 02, 2009

The Canada Line is running. A train to the airport – it’s about time. I speak as someone who once, in a younger, more foolish incarnation, tried to take a city bus to the airport. I was heading home for Christmas. I left myself about 90 minutes. Yes, I know. Every single block some schlep would ring the bell, the bus would trundle over to the curb . . . and I spent Christmas in Vancouver. For months afterward, I woke up screaming, “The bells! The bells!”

Now, a train. This is more like it. Although the Canada Line opened ahead of schedule, it seems long overdue. From Hong Kong to Tokyo to Rome, rapid airport transit is the mark of a city that has its act together. An airport train is an environmentally friendly feature for any city. That’s particularly true for Vancouver, where the line has already reduced emissions by helping destroy businesses along the Cambie Street corridor. Fewer customers, less traffic – better for the environment.

Getting vehicles off the road was the idea, although perhaps not quite like that. But even according to the official plan, someone’s business was always going to suffer as a result of the new train: taxi drivers. The lack of rapid transit to the airport has always been a boon for Lower Mainland hacks. Now, with this increased competition, their fares are bound to plummet. And that leaves some of us in an awkward position.

I live about 15 blocks from the nearest Canada Line stop. An invigorating walk, you might say. But I travel with a suitcase that should come with licence plates. The easiest way to get it to the station would probably involve four tires and some sort of motor, or possibly a pole to punt it along the sidewalk. While the new train is welcome, I am still going to need some way to get to the starting line. So the question now becomes, How to get to the train station?

The obvious answer is, call a cab. But geez. Isn’t that going to be rather uncomfortable? What’s it going to be like when that cab pulls up, you trundle out the door with all your baggage in tow, the cabbie starts calculating that big fare out to Sea Island and then you say, “Canada Line station, please.”

Man. Awkward. Bad enough that this poor driver, perhaps a struggling student or out-of-work actor, is taking it on the chin from the Canada Line. But now here you are rubbing his nose in it. It’s like calling up your ex-wife and asking for a ride to your girlfriend’s place.

It is time to start planning ahead for this difficult situation. The key is developing cover stories, plausible excuses. You might tell the driver to take you to the Pan Pacific or the Fairmont Waterfront, where you will soon be enjoying a relaxing getaway vacation minus the expensive airfare.
From there it’s a short hop to Waterfront Station. You might explain that your suitcase is in fact a very primitive laptop. You might give the address of a luggage repair shop located close to a Canada Line station – I sincerely hope such a store exists.

Poking ventilation holes in the suitcase and speaking to it in a soothing manner might convince the driver you are taking a distressed animal to the vet, but that seems extreme. A simpler solution would be asking a friend or partner to stand on the doorstep yelling, “And don’t come back, you two-timing louse!”

Or you can just brazen it out, in which case, good for you. Maybe the driver will even open the trunk for you when you arrive.

http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/bcb/after-hours/2009/09/02/all-aboard-new-canada-line

[argon007]

Originally Posted by CLC

A good example is #430, now a very popular limited stop route between Metrotown and Richmond Centre. At its inception I remembered a lot of riders with monthly pass for Zone 2 are unhappy when bus driver ask for addfare paid.

then why would translink open that bus route? although the terminate points are in the same zone...but they must go to vancouver....so it is 2 zone...

i don't know..

you can take 410 to 22nd street station and transfer to skytrain... and it is 1 zone.. i took that before... and it takes 50 minutes

but 430 is easier for shopping in richmond centre or metrotown.... BUT....there are big jam on knight bridge every peak time... so i think it is not good choice...

if there are many choices, i would like to take 410 and transfer skytrain to metro for saving money.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Heh, I was just researching the Yurikamome line in Tokyo, which is a completely automated line much like our Skytrain. I was surprised to see that ridership has just RECENTLY surpassed 100,000 riders per day, and is thus now breaking even. Now, Skytrain plans on hitting 100,000 riders per day eventually, and after experiencing how jam packed this train (absolutely not an inch to be had) that is 3x the length of the Skytrain, at a greater frequency, I can't help but think 100,000 might be a TAD ambitious for us, and going beyond that would be utter chaos.

The platform. Note the nifty suicide prevention gates that remain closed until the train arrives

http://www.flickr.com/photos/syume/3874355718/

I am going to stick with saying the Canada Line is far from sufficient, especially with the limited number of trains we have. They really should have stuck with their original order.

You can see how crowded/how many people can wait on the platform of that Tokyo mini-metro, but that would only be possible here with platform doors. Right now, InTransitBC goes into crowd control mode whenever there are just people waiting on the platform and they start holding people back. It's beyond ridiculous when the line can't even handle slightly higher loads.

I think we can expect at least another 20,000 riders on the Canada Line early next week....it won't hold up well at all.

[Gordon]

Is Pro-transit B.C. soley responsible the ordering more trainsets ?

[Metro-One]

I rode the Canada line today, and I may have been lucky but the trains and stations were not overcrowded, and this was at 5pm. there were even empty seats on the train! (I boarded at City Center).

It was a neat experience today to take 2 train transfers (ride 3 lines) for 1 trip. (I went from Brentwood, transfered at Commercial/Broadway, transfered at Granville Station via the mall and got out at Yaletown). It felt like a big city!

There needs to be more signage through the mall connecting the two stations. I know the route but many don't, and it is faster than going to Waterfront and easier/faster than going to the surface to transfer. It would not be hard, it would only take a couple signs and possibly a yellow strip painted on the ground. They do this through underground malls all the time in Japan, it's not hard. And if it is only open during business hours, thats fine! Just have the main sign say "After business hours, use street level transfer" and have a few signs outside directing people.

How come at Waterfront none of our trains say "transfer point to the Millennium & Expo lines - transfer point to the Canada line" yet?

I also noticed more station attendants visible along the M/E lines. Maybe having another company operate the other line has created some much needed friendly competition. They were actually cleaning and helping people with directions!

[Spork]

It seems like a lot of people are having experiences with low passenger loads around rush hour, but abnormally high passenger loads around non-peak periods. Perhaps this is just an issue of them expecting the line to be more commute-heavy than it currently is? That is, September 7th won't be nearly as bad as we expect, but they should increase frequencies in off-peak periods (including weekends)?

If this is case, I bet that they are still in the process of collecting passenger data to make these changes sometime this week or early next week.

[mr.x]

^ lol, great idea about the yellow strip painted on the ground....though i don't think they'll let it happen, for aesthetic reasons.

lol, SkyTrain staff aren't as cheery and joyful as their Canada Line counterparts...yet. I've passed by countless smiling Canada Line attendees, but I don't think I have ever seen a SkyTrain attendant look happy - it's usually the "why am i here?" look.

[windscar]

Or maybe use a painted rail track that is first yellow but then changes to be near to the same colour as the ground it's painted on. That way it's not really noticeable if your not looking for it but still is noticeable if you are. Hopefully I hear back from certain people so I can add a cheery and joyful face to Canada Line or SkyTrain

[CLC]

It seems like a lot of people are having experiences with low passenger loads around rush hour, but abnormally high passenger loads around non-peak periods. Perhaps this is just an issue of them expecting the line to be more commute-heavy than it currently is? That is, September 7th won't be nearly as bad as we expect, but they should increase frequencies in off-peak periods (including weekends)?

If this is case, I bet that they are still in the process of collecting passenger data to make these changes sometime this week or early next week.

so far I don't see any abnormally , the usage pattern from Canada Line is similar to #98, a steady steam of riders from noon to at least 9pm weekdays, and very good usage on Sat & Sun, exactly expected. #98 used to have the larger shar of pass-up reports among all bus routes during AM peak hour, it remains to see what happen next Tuesday. I personally think Richmond-Brighouse (several frequent bus routes connecting, I don't want to do calculation) and Landowne (~100 people may not able to board if spaces mostly occupied at Brighouse) will see more problem as Bridgeport

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think this is where the zone system Fails by only having 3 zones.

If you validate in North Van, but take the bus across the Second Narrows to Brentwood, that counts as a 2 zone trip, even though your bus makes only 1 or 2 stops in Vancouver. Continuing on to Scott Road makes it a 3 zone trip because you've now "touched" all 3 zones. But the zone number doesn't specify that you came from North Van, so yeah, I think you could get away with just a 2 zone ticket for the trip.

To be fair, considering the distance travelled, it would be one of the more expensive fares, and probably equivalent to a 2-zone fare anyhow. The most "unfair" are the ones that travel 1 or two stops (Joyce to Metrotown) and have to up the fare.

Actually, I know that sometimes people say "Why do I have to pay for a 2-zone trip if I'm going from Coquitlam (Zone 3) to Surrey (Zone 3)?" Us using this as an example of the zone system failing is a bit specious, given that it would probably be equivalent to a 2-zone fare anyhow if it was distance priced. Really, that's what the zone system is trying to do, form a rudimentary distance based system. The only reason that it has as few problems as it does is because of the natural water boundaries which make clear delineations for bus routes. There's only 3 or 4 routes which are edge cases, and most of the time, drivers on those routes are the most willing to just upgrade your fare.

Getting on the 28 in Burnaby ( or even along Boundary in Vancouver ) you have to ask for a zone 2/3 if going to Ikea, for example. The Driver (who is travelling in Zone 1), usually just ups the fare to 3-zones. Likewise coming back, the driver will never ask for an add fare if you get on the 28 from Gilmore station.

Same if you travel from Metrotown to Richmond Ikea. They are in the same zone, but you travel through zone 1, so it is a 2 zone trip. BUT, you could also go from Metrotown, through Vancouver, and on to Tsawwassen, a trip where you pass through all 3 zones, but it is a VALID 2 zone trip.

Yep, an example where the zone system saves you money over the distance based system.

If you started at Waterfront, took Canada Line to Bridgeport, then 620 to the Ferries, it's a 3 zone trip. A 2 zone won't be valid while you are on the 620. You are making a much shorter trip, but the way the zones are separated and numbered, you have to pay more.

The only way to avoid this is to have each city zone have a unique number. North Shore could be Zone 4, Lion's Bay Zone 6, Richmond Zone 7, etc. However, I'm not even sure that this is desirable as it would rule out edge cases and on long trips, you'd be pushing into the 90 minute limit. Speaking of 90 minutes, anyone remember the old paper transfers? Man, those things could last for half the day when they were in use, depending on the bus driver's generosity.

I was reminded of them while in Hawaii. Honolulu's TheBus uses them. It's kind of funny because the system is very technological with automated reminders and stop announcements, but has paper transfers.