CHICAGO | Boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v5

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Alliance

Nowhere, were your impression of the designs correlated with height? or were the better designs the shorter plans?

There weren't much details in the designs, primarily massing models and site layouts. From what I could tell they will probably all be pretty decent, I don't think we are looking at anything too post modern. I think at worst we'll end up with a Baumhart style pomo, which is really just modernism using brick. I would think the design would be better taller just because some of the taller ones get nice and slender in the massings, especially when they include condos.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by photolitherland

I have had a burning question thats been on my mind forever, what is going in on the land that is on the far right of this photo? Its just vacant land and it looks perfect for some highrises and apartment building? Is there anything planned, I sure hope so! photo by newstl 2020

Yes, there is something planned - it's called "Riverside Park". Most people on here hate the site plan and design (postmodern), and the fact that it's only connected to the surrounding streets at 3 points. Half the site is planned as townhouses, too...

Nothing has happened yet because Tony Rezko was involved in the financing for the development, and he's now on trial. Wait until the trial is over, and see if anything happens then.

[Pandemonious]

^If they could create an orange line stop at 18th/clark, it would make that land a lot more accessible, and allow for higher density. All the rail yards to the west really cut off that area from UIC/etc and the highway and shitty ass dearborn park cuts it off to the east. Try being a pedestrian on Clark Street. As you try to walk north up to roosevelt, your sidewalks end on both sides, and the eastern one become dearborn park's "private" bullshit. I really wish a controlled burn would be allowed to take out all of dearborn park for us between roosevelt and 15th.. Since that will never happen, the best thing we could do is to literally wall it in with really tall skyscrapers, so they get no sunlight. Pretty much as it stands, all we can hope for is a suburbified, lower density, car oriented, total pile there. In all seriousness, whatever is built there, I do at least hope that the ideas of integrating the neighborhood with the amenity that is the river into the development as hinted at in the "Riverside Park" plan can happen. Something perhaps like Milwaukee has, would be ideal.. Some local breweries and riverfront cafes and other unique attractions along the river with some midrise/townhouse densities, with a real streetgrid (bring lasalle, or wells down to 18th) tying in some skyscrapers covering the tracks to the east along clark to help block dearborn park's sunsets.

I also don't think it would be too much to ask for a red line stop between roosevelt and cermak someday...

[skobabe8]

Originally Posted by Pandemonious

I also don't think it would be too much to ask for a red line stop between roosevelt and cermak someday...

What about a green line stop at Cermak? Walking distance to Mc Place for the conventioneers.

[photoLith]

Man that really sucks, so it will basically be like urban sprawl downtown? Thats just great, all they would have to do is build some bridges over the railroad tracks and if they built a nice touristy area by the river then it wouldnt be all that bad. But if they are just building some crappy low rise neighborhood then that is a total waste of perfect land that could add a lot to downtown.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by skobabe8

What about a green line stop at Cermak? Walking distance to Mc Place for the conventioneers.

That's pretty far outside the scope of the discussion (Riverside Park, and what it would take to allow it to be high-density in a good way). There is a great Chicago Transit thread on here too, under the Transportation section. :-)

[Mr Downtown]

Most people on here hate the site plan and design (postmodern)

I don't know what a "postmodern" site plan would be. And none of the buildings have even been designed yet.

Remember that the Metra tracks run at grade level north of about 1400 south. You can't just "bridge over them" and you can't go under them. Remember that the Red Line does not even run through this parcel, and putting a station on the curve at 15th street would be rather impractical. South of that the Red Line is rising on a 3 or 4 percent grade, so you can't put a station there.

Here's the Riverside Park site plan that was approved in the PD, with IKEA. It was done in 2004 by Pappageorge/Haymes and RTKL.



Once IKEA pulled out, they tried to pitch a lifestyle center in its place, and changed the name to the "Riverside District." Antunovich Associates is credited as "architect" in the booklet that includes this site plan:



I'm sure lots of things will change before actual construction.

[GregBear24]

I would love to see retail, restaurants, bars...etc right along the river with residential above and a wall of 30+ story highrises set just off the river. The river needs to be ped friendly, but everything else should be pure density with a complete neglect to anything other than building tall with good design. A bridge needs to be built over the river and metra as well as one north of roosevelt to tie in this area to UIC. I would love to see a lot of college students living in a cool, highly dense neighborhood along the river here. This area is screaming for youthful life and energy. Additionally, DP residents would love the army of drunken youngsters right across the street from them creating a vibrant pocket of the city. Think lincoln park by depaul on steroids (lots of tall buildings!)

[Tom Servo]

WHAT THE HELL MAN? even if this is preliminary, who thinks this shit up? jesus!

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ do something better with the site constraints, I don't think you can. This site sucks when it comes to the grid, you can't go over or under the tracks or river so you are screwed. Hopefully someday those tracks will be moved or buried and the problem will be alleviated.

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by GregBear24

everything else should be pure density with a complete neglect to anything other than building tall with good design.

Since the site has very poor access, no connection to the grid, and no possibility of rail transit, what is the planning logic of filling this area with high density?

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Hopefully someday those tracks will be moved or buried and the problem will be alleviated.

Moved where? Bury a diesel line through old riverbed with a water table at -12?

The only solution would have been to elevate the tracks, same as they are at Archer and at Polk, and put Roosevelt and Clark back down at ground level. Alas, that didn't happen.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Since the site has very poor access, no connection to the grid, and no possibility of rail transit, what is the planning logic of filling this area with high density?

^ You've just described Lakeshore East, which is being filled with high density.

There is no argument out there against high density that makes a lot of sense to me. How about it just being a largely self-sustaining community?

It's low density that needs to explain itself, IMO

[Mr Downtown]

You didn't notice that Lakeshore East was an easy walk to Loop offices and Streeterville institutions and Mag Mile shopping and South Michigan culture, with lake and park views?

Riverside Park, not so much.

[Busy Bee]

^Gotta say that's a pretty shortsighted point of view. Sorry. Good chance that opinion might sound silly in 10-15-20 years, probably much sooner, if not now.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

You didn't notice that Lakeshore East was an easy walk to Loop offices and Streeterville institutions and Mag Mile shopping and South Michigan culture, with lake and park views?

Riverside Park, not so much.

^ But the lack of those things wasn't the reason why you stated Riverside Park can't accommodate density. The reasons you posted are:

Poor access, no rail transit, and poor connection to the grid.

Of course, if these were such huge obstacles, Roosevelt Collection would have been a total failure. But alas, such was not the case..

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

^^^ do something better with the site constraints, I don't think you can. This site sucks when it comes to the grid, you can't go over or under the tracks or river so you are screwed. Hopefully someday those tracks will be moved or buried and the problem will be alleviated.

look up the hafencity development in hamburg, compare and contrast, and get back to me. in fact, check out the 'chicago square' section of that develpment. and site constraints? jesus christ, it's a BLANK CANVAS; what more could you ask for? i'll save my heavy hitting criticism for when i see the actual proposal; but i can only imagin what we'll get.

[Dr. Taco]

^ i agree. the land is blank. the human mind is pretty extraordinary. much more so than the one who came up with those plans above. I don't know why we (developers and the city) settle so easily for stuff

[Mr Downtown]

Yet none of you ever post your alternative site plans.

[photoLith]

Yeah just what I was thinking, its a blank slate, dont ruin it with some crap development. There is so much incredible potential there, and I see no reason there cant be high density there. The railroad tracks and the river seem to be no problem with me. I mean come on, if we can build a 2000 ft tower here in this city and if it recovered from the great fire then I think that they can figure out some better way to use the land then for low density bull crap. Yay, this is also the first debate that I started. Thats not the point, when I lived there which was a long time ago and i was young, I even thought back then that that land was just begging to be developed.

[aaron38]

Well two trains actually, Metra and Amtrak, and the walk between the two...



This is SoNo, right?




155 N Wacker


300 N LaSalle


Pure, I think?


On Amtrak now, heading south. The windows are dirty, and it was snowing.