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  #2221  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 1:48 AM
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Originally Posted by k3d View Post
I was walking by LA Live again yesterday and though I like most of the design elements, one thing about it all gives me cause for concern. The whole complex seems somewhat small. The entrance on Fig seemed very narrow and the walkway from Fig to the plaza seems very short. It could just be that during construction and the lack of detail does not give you a good reference to scale but it just seems it wouldn't take as long to stroll through the complex as it would to walk through the Grove or City walk.
It's not that small. Obviously we're only seeing a part of it so far. It'll extend past the building on Olympic all the way to the hotel.

And anyway I wouldn't see small as entirely bad. I wouldn't want LA Live to be a Grove or Irvine Spectrum which are basically outdoor malls that people drive to and then leave without ever leaving the property. It's pretty close to that already. It's better to have LA Live as an entertainment anchor so that people can visit the adjacent region including the 250,000 square feet of retail planned next door at LA Central.
     
     
  #2222  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 1:49 AM
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The whole complex seems somewhat small. The entrance on Fig seemed very narrow and the walkway from Fig to the plaza seems very short. It could just be that during construction and the lack of detail does not give you a good reference to scale but it just seems it wouldn't take as long to stroll through the complex as it would to walk through the Grove or City walk.

Because LA Live won't include a lot of retail, & even more so cuz the Regal movie theaters will be segregated on the west side of the site, separated by the hotel, it will be modest compared with a proj like the grove or city walk. The same applies to the Grand ave proj.

The hood still is in an awkward transition phase. That's why a devlpr like Rick Caruso said he doesn't have confidence that enough ppl are living in or visiting DT to justify putting large retail projs there. Some ppl don't care for his type of devlpt, like the grove or the one he's now building in Glendale, but that doesn't change the fact that when it comes to a lot of retail, DT is neither fish nor fowl.

Some of that is due to a lot of ppl in SoCa being similar to the USC professor described in this article. That person works in LA & yet he's living in Valencia?!? Ya gotta be kidding me! Why?! Is the commute really worth it? OK, crime rates are lower, & schools are better & safer, in the burbs, but is that enough of an advantage to make the trips between DT & Valencia worthwhile?

Regardless of how ppl like him would answer that, they're the ones who continue to spend alot of their $$$ in other parts of town or SoCa. Which, again, is why DT remains in the awkward phase of being neither fish nor fowl.


Steve Lopez
He's king; The L.A. Loft Scene is His Throne

October 14 2007

You might guess that a 2,500-square-foot, three-bathroom unit, with private elevator and a price tag of $4.9 million, was in Bel-Air or Holmby Hills. Would you believe it's beyond the eastern edge of downtown L.A.'s skid row, surrounded by warehouses and not far from the railroad tracks?

Stop shaking your head. This is the new Los Angeles, in which bored denizens are abandoning the once-hip Hollywood Hills in favor of 20-foot ceilings in converted factories that sit next door to cold-storage facilities.

They're not coming in droves, maybe. In fact, the $4.9-million pad has been on the market for several months, with lookers but no takers. But two units in the same building have gone for roughly $2 million each, and you don't have to look too hard anymore to find neo-urbanistas who've tumbled out of the hills and landed in the Arts District.

I'll get to them in a minute, but let's begin with Brady Westwater. If you move downtown, Westwater will be your neighbor. Try, though you might, you will not be able to shake him. At every turn, you'll see Westwater wearing a cowboy hat and a wrestling T-shirt and jawing about:

A) The numskulls at City Hall. B) The obvious solutions to every problem known to man. C) What a moron Steve Lopez is. or D) The endless magical wonder of downtown Los Angeles.

I knew the author of the L.A. Cowboy blog ( www.lacowboy.blogspot.com) would have something to say about a $4.9-million loft, but what? There goes the neighborhood? Onward and upward?

In general, he said by phone, the bustling loft scene is all good. This is how Los Angeles should be remaking itself, he says, putting people closer to their jobs and giving them an opportunity, with warehouse-style spaces, to build offices and workshops in their own homes. Yeah, although I hear that some people move in and check out the buzz for a while, but then go running back where they came from when they realize that downtown is still pretty rough around the edges.

Nonsense, Westwater said. The population is growing even through the real estate slump.

On my way to the Biscuit Co. Lofts, I picked up Westwater at his 5th and Spring headquarters, where his computer and wrestling mat are side by side. Anybody who wants to challenge him should be advised that he claims to have recently gone mano a mano with a Mongolian national wrestling champ. The former Ross Shockley, who changed his name to Brady Westwater many years ago because it "test-marketed extremely well with women," was wearing a Strikers Wrestling Club T-shirt. He'd squeezed me in despite serving voluntarily on two dozen civic boards and commissions and writing several books and screenplays.

Downtown developer Tom Gilmore says Westwater is the kind of guy who can drive you mad with his diatribes about downtown politics and planning. "But every time I decide I'll never talk to him again, he comes up with another great idea."

Like the recent Fashion Week event at the former St. Vibiana's Cathedral, which Westwater told me he'd conceived of and promoted. I attended a runway show Thursday night to see if indeed he had anything to do with it, and not only was he front and center as the models strutted their stuff, but he knew everyone in attendance, was included in photo-ops with the emcee and claimed that Los Angeles could one day rival Paris in the fashion world if people would just listen to him.

"You should set this guy up in the penthouse loft as a selling point," I told sales rep Matthew Zion when we walked into the Biscuit Co. sales office. "He's Mr. Downtown."

Artsy loft-hunters would see a stubbled Runyonesque character and realize they definitely had left Sherman Oaks. Before you know it, wrestling outfits would be high fashion and the New York Times would send out a cross-eyed hack to proclaim L.A.'s Arts District the new Tribeca.

I don't think the concept was working for Zion, who wondered what my relationship to Westwater was. "This is the guy who once called me the worst columnist in America," I told Zion.

"I did not," Westwater said. "I called you the worst columnist in history."

Zion put up with us long enough to lead a full tour of the building, starting with lofts that go for $395,000, $610,000 and $1.34 million. The tenants so far include a firefighter, garment industry designers, young artists and retirees. I don't know of many buildings with such a vast generational and income-level spread.

Malcolm Snead, a molecular genetics professor at USC, was looking at the $610,000 unit because he lives in Valencia and wants to be closer to work.

"I've got a story for you," said Russell Roney, his real estate agent. Roney represented a Hollywood Hills couple who wanted to sell and buy something smaller because their sons had grown and moved out. Nothing in the hills jazzed them, so they came downtown on a lark, and Roney liked what he saw just as much as his client, Vicky Deger. "If you don't buy, I will," Roney told Deger after they'd looked at several places in the Arts District.

They both ended up buying. Deger, a stylist for TV commercials, moved into the Biscuit Co. with her screenwriter husband, and then bought a smaller place in the nearby Barker Block building to serve as an office. Roney bought in the Barker Block and intends to move in as soon as his house in the Hollywood Hills is sold.

"There's something really invigorating about a new energy and the unknown," said Deger, who insists an ocean breeze blows through when she opens her window. I hesitated to suggest she might be confusing the Pacific with the L.A. River. She rides her bike to Little Tokyo, doesn't miss Hollywood in the least and says she has "an account" at the little food market across the street, as if she were living in Mayberry.

All but 23 of the 104 units in the former National Biscuit Co. building, which are rather appropriately shaped like cracker boxes, have been sold. The developer, Linear City, sold out the converted Toy Factory building across the street in just 60 days in 2003, so it's taking a little longer this time, but the biscuit building units are more expensive.

When we got to the four-level penthouse suite, I knew instantly that this should be Westwater's perch. I can just see him using a megaphone to extol the virtues of downtown living from the balcony. The view is spectacular, if you don't mind a valley of warehouse rooftops along with skyline and mountain vistas, and the rooftop patio space is a sprawling 2,500 square feet.

Is it worth $4.9 million, with no greenery nearby, two major highways whistling past and the Los Angeles River inaccessible thanks to decades of inspired planning? Hard to imagine, but you never know. "A lot of people are using faux grass," Zion said. "It looks amazing."

Westwater was busy imagining how he could seamlessly move from home to work in the same space, taking on one project after another in his penthouse. "King of the world," Zion said to Westwater as we looked down on a city in transformation.

Maybe not. But king of downtown L.A., for sure.
     
     
  #2223  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 1:58 AM
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Articles like this, or the recent ones in the Washington Post & Wall St Journal (about the Ralphs) are good cuz they're helping get the word out there.


Machine Age


WHICH WAY TO THE BOILER ROOM? Patrons at the Edison on a recent Saturday. The bar was once a pow-
er plant. Stephanie Diani for The New York Times


By SAMANTHA B. BONAR
Published: October 14, 2007

LOS ANGELES

THERE is the Tramp and then there are tramps. You likely won’t find either at the Edison lounge, although you might expect to run into the former. Descending three steep flights to enter the club, which in a previous life was the first private power plant in downtown Los Angeles, is like stepping into a factory scene from the 1936 Charlie Chaplin film “Modern Times.”

Mechanical artifacts are scattered about the cavernous space, and classic silent films are projected onto three-story-high brick and concrete walls, accompanied by a mix of jazz tunes, many with a techno twist.
Men mill about in fedoras, black shirts and white suspenders. Women generally dress in typical Los Angeles high hootchy, but the dresses aren’t quite as down to there or up to here. Feather boas are not unheard of.

Artsy local loft dwellers and downtown businessmen make up much of the crowd, but since the Edison opened less than a year ago, word has been spreading. It has become the place to be after trolling art exhibits on Thursday nights, when local galleries stay open late. Weekends are busiest, and by 10 p.m. on a recent Saturday, the line to get in filled the alley and coursed down Second Street.

“Oh, you’re from Pasadena, too!” a tall blonde in a short shimmery dress chirped to a man dressed all in black.

The interior is dotted with Deco touches like vases of peacock feathers. The Eddies, 1920s-style cabaret dancers, perform three times a night, the white fringe of their dresses whipping around like streaks of electricity in the darkened room.

Waiting in the bathroom line near a marble-top vanity that held Burberry cologne, packets of Aleve and LifeStyles condoms, Cynthia Torres and her friend Patty Garcia raved about the club’s modern speak-easy look. Ms. Torres, 25, discovered it less than a month ago and has been there three times. “I love that I could chill in different spots like the lab, the boiler room and the generator lounge, all in one night,” she said.

Oxblood velvet curtains hide various nooks where patrons can become better acquainted. Behind Curtain No. 1: Clubgoers playing pool at a vintage red-felt table. Behind Curtain No. 2: A dame lolls on a gent’s lap in a caramel leather armchair.

In a corner, a group of impeccably made-up middle-age Japanese women in silk kimonos sat stiffly and silently. They had wandered over from nearby Little Toyko, scouting a space for a friend to sing traditional Japanese songs, explained a woman with a white-powdered face who was carrying a card that read “Mme. Fumi Akutagawa, kimono consultant and instructor.”

After looking at the dancing Eddies, who had changed into scanty black bras and panties for their second show, Mme. Akutagawa concluded, “Too crowded, too many steps, maybe not so good.” Perhaps she added mentally: “Those girls could use some kimonos.”

The Edison
108 West 2nd Street, No. 101
Los Angeles
(213) 613-0000

GETTING IN No list and no cover. Thursday night has the most eclectic crowd.

DRESS CODE Pinstripes for men, simple cocktail dresses for women, though blondes in leggings and blousy tops make their requisite appearance.

SIGHTINGS Sting, Alicia Silverstone, Eva Longoria.

D.J. PICKS Ray Barretto’s “Mercy, Mercy Baby” and Grant Green’s “Sookie, Sookie.”
SIGNATURE DRINK Edison Pear (organic lavender-infused bourbon, pear cognac, fresh pear nectar), $13.
     
     
  #2224  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 2:12 AM
LAofAnaheim LAofAnaheim is offline
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Originally Posted by k3d View Post
Maybe someone has already posted but I noticed the Roebeck's Juice signs are up at the corner of Flower /9th and the Pastagina on Hope/9th. No construction inside of either yet.

The Coffee Bean has also been open about a week or so on Hope/9th. I think they could use a few more umbrella tables on the Hope side. The few they have are always full and there is really no seating inside.
The signs for Pastagina & Roebeks have been up for a month now. Coffee Bean opened last week. I think the outside Coffee Bean is for stop-n-go customers, the Coffee Bean inside Ralphs is for sit-and-chat. The UPS store looks like its ready for opening in a few days. Everything is ready.
     
     
  #2225  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 2:38 AM
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^ Actually, this is a win-lose situation, with affordable housing losing, and AEG, a private firm, winning. While I support street improvements to the LA Live area, the money for that should not come from any state, city or county affordable housing funds. Those funds should go toward building or subsidizing things like, well, affordable housing. Personally I think this is a very poor decision on the governor's part.
1) The money only goes to BID's. Of course AEG is the main head of the south park BID though.
2) AEG would have to apply. It doesnt get any money as of right now.
3) I agree with your assessment.

If we are careful, Expo park can be the most vibrant neighorhood south of san francisco. If we are not, it will be another silly endevar.

This area has HUGE potential. There are underutilized museums, a major university that is expanding, and a highly underutilized stadium. I can imagine one day that tourists, academics, blacks, latinos, whites, asians, rich people, poor people, artists, transit dependents, and environmentalists all could all live and WALK in this area side by side. Now that would be a true cosmopolitan feel.

As much as I love skycrapers and lounges,this money should be used to help build a vibrant middle class out of the existing residents.
     
     
  #2226  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 2:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RAlossi View Post
I'm still wondering about the whole pedestrian traffic flow of the project once the next portion is complete -- the two buildings facing Fig, with offices and over 20 restaurants planned, among other things.

That's one giant food court.
I am most worried about flow as well. Not only within La live, but with its surroundings. What would really make LA live work is if very dense developments (like jardin and la central) completely surround LA live and encourage pedestrians to explore those areas as well. I think its 50/50. I still cant see how LA live encourages people to branch out into other areas downtown.
     
     
  #2227  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by k3d View Post
Here comes 717 from behind Market Lofts

Good pic cuz it shows 2 things that really deserve criticism, way more than LA Live's 6 light towers----which I still think look unfinished in their current state----or the Hanover apt tower's architecture, esp if a person is looking at the hood from several floors up, as will be true of ppl living in 717 9th St.

How come the builder of the Market lofts made almost no effort to conceal all the AC units on his bldg's rooftop? Or at least all the mechanical equipment stacked in the center?

And then in the upper lefthand portion of the pic, there's the motley pile of bldgs north of LA Live. Although the tire store at least has a somewhat new paint job, it & the rest of the small stuff near it are a jumble of junk. I don't like parking lots, but for the immediate future I'd rather have something like that than what's there right now. Since they're tearing down that green & white bldg south of the Flower St lofts, I hope someone will do the same to the sites north of olympic, west of Fig.

BTW, I was in the hood on Sat & the following things stood out:

The green cover over the Brockman bldg sure is getting ragged, & the scaffolding behind it looks like its been there for yrs & yrs. If I didn't know better I'd think the devlpr had abandoned the conversion work. But at least the Coulter-mandell bldg next door is finally starting to show some life.

I found it hard to diss the new glo apt bldg on Wilshire, next to 1100 wilshire, when I looked across the street & could see that the site of this proposed highrise still is kind of rundown, showing the foundation of an old bldg that once stood there. I've never noticed that before.

I was driving on 3rd St, & couldn't see the site of the Medallion at 4th & Main too clearly, but a backhoe was ploughing away fast & furiously at that location.

The Pinkberry store on 2nd St in little Tokyo has created some life in that part of the hood. In the past I'd see almost no one around that side of 2nd.

I went past the new apt bldg at the NE corner of Wilshire & Vermont, & it's strange how something I've seen in several photos before, which make the murals on that bldg seem surreal----or almost photoshopped----looks different & more obviously a painted image in person.

That's similar to the reaction I had when visiting the hood in general & seeing it up close instead of in photos. I found myself taking all the new & old parts of the hood in stride, or more importantly taking all the improvements for granted. That's why I have to remember what things were like 5, 10, 20, 40 or more years ago to fully appreciate just how far things have come & how many changes for the better have taken place.
     
     
  #2228  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 4:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jlrobe View Post
1) If we are careful, Expo park can be the most vibrant neighorhood south of san francisco. If we are not, it will be another silly endevar.

This area has HUGE potential. There are underutilized museums, a major university that is expanding, and a highly underutilized stadium.
So true. It amazes me that this area has remained the way it is for so many years. The Expo area easily has the potential to be and should be a major anchor for the city - sadly, its far from it.
     
     
  #2229  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:56 AM
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^ Yes...and I hope they remove the Fig Corridor as the distinction of "downtown's auto mall". Unfortunate area...especially when it will be 1 black away from the Expo Line. A sad state for land use.
     
     
  #2230  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:10 PM
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While I too am annoyed by edluva's sarcasm, I do agree with him that, based on those initial pictures, the interior of the Nokia is a disappointment. No details, very cheap. Technology doesn't make up for that, IMO. I don't understand why anybody would want to copy the already-dated look of the Convention Center.

As for the greater L.A. Live project, I think it is going to do fine. The investment is a long-term one: although it is on the outskirts of Downtown right now, it will not be long before it is a central attraction there.

Also, I like the placement of the theaters. Without an attraction that far west, why would people cross the plaza? The current setup will activate Olympic Boulevard. You can't just build everything along Figueroa. If you do, you're not taking advantage of all that space.
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  #2231  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:23 PM
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Are they expanding Olympic Blvd by one lane? That's not pedestrian-friendly thinking..that's auto-friendly policies back in work.

My personal opinion of LA Live!. It creates a zoned entertainment area within the downtown core. Unlike the Grove or CityWalk, there will actually be businesses and residences in the district (Herbalife, AEG, ESPN). So, it will have a continuous flow of people all day. I also like it that its close to the Pico station, making the station more useful to the rail system (hopefully it will be an underground station someday).

My big concern is the lack of attention paid to Figueroa & Olympic. I hope pedestrians can access the retail stores from the street sidewalks and not just the Nokia Plaza. It will give the city streets some much needed vibrancy. Otherwise, if all stores have their "backs turned" onto Olympic/Figueroa, the city has just developed another Grove.
     
     
  #2232  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 5:47 PM
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What is with you people and the Grove? The Grove is constantly packed with people for dinner, movies, shopping, music, book stores, a farmers market, a park like area, easy parking. Packed I tell you. And most of the people there seem to be in a really good moodThe trolley is always full of families and smiling kids. They don't even have on LCD screen. DTLA can hope for such success. Maybe you people just don't like to shop.
     
     
  #2233  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 6:12 PM
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Trust me when I say that no one knows what they want. They don't want it to be like The Grove but LA Live should look at The Grove because it is a sucess. I've been to The Grove and I have no complaints aside from the fact that it's a bit to surburban.
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  #2234  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 6:28 PM
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I think people are just mad that no one has looked at the grove and said "hey, people love this crap, why don't we do it on a real street."
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  #2235  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist View Post
While I too am annoyed by edluva's sarcasm, I do agree with him that, based on those initial pictures, the interior of the Nokia is a disappointment. No details, very cheap. Technology doesn't make up for that, IMO. I don't understand why anybody would want to copy the already-dated look of the Convention Center.

As for the greater L.A. Live project, I think it is going to do fine. The investment is a long-term one: although it is on the outskirts of Downtown right now, it will not be long before it is a central attraction there.

Also, I like the placement of the theaters. Without an attraction that far west, why would people cross the plaza? The current setup will activate Olympic Boulevard. You can't just build everything along Figueroa. If you do, you're not taking advantage of all that space.
The Nokia interior is similar to the minimalist design of the Arclight in Hollywood. Not elegant but sleek, clean lines, no clutter. It matches the exterior and the whole LA Live concept IMHO.

I had not considered that about the theater placement. I guess in the bigger picture those projects by the 110 and Olympic will make that area more integrated. I am also interested in how the area between the Nokia Plaza and the theaters get built out.

Does anyone here think that pedestrian bridges would be helpful at a corner like Fig/Olympic?

Last edited by k3d; Oct 16, 2007 at 6:45 PM.
     
     
  #2236  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 6:59 PM
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I think people are just mad that no one has looked at the grove and said "hey, people love this crap, why don't we do it on a real street."
They did, They looked at Broadway and said that. Didn't go over to well here though.

Last edited by k3d; Oct 16, 2007 at 7:10 PM.
     
     
  #2237  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
[/b]
How come the builder of the Market lofts made almost no effort to conceal all the AC units on his bldg's rooftop? Or at least all the mechanical equipment stacked in the center?
Yes, It really shows the CIM Group's concern for the Residents of DT especially because alot of the units that have to look at it will reside in CIM Group buildings.
     
     
  #2238  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 7:23 PM
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2!!!

So is there anymore news on Titan Project?
Last I heard it was at least a year from groundbreaking.
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  #2239  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 7:52 PM
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Trust me when I say that no one knows what they want. They don't want it to be like The Grove but LA Live should look at The Grove because it is a sucess. I've been to The Grove and I have no complaints aside from the fact that it's a bit to surburban.
In terms of the walking-around experience, the Grove's got it nailed. It has trees, benches, landscaping, a fountain, a trolley. It is clean and it's busy. The styles along the street are consistent, yet varied. IOW, it is everything a street should be. Well, except for one thing.

The problem with the Grove is that it is an isolated experience. It's promenade has no connections to the outside world, other than via parking lots. This is why people call it "fake" and "mall-like". That said, I think the success of the Grove cannot be ignored.

A place is well-designed if it respects the pedestrian and makes them happy to be there. With this criteria, the Grove mostly succeeds. Hopefully, L.A. Live will be able to pull it off as well.
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  #2240  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2007, 7:53 PM
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They did, They looked at Broadway and said that. Didn't go over to well here though.
Well, it's not exactly the same with Broadway since Broadway is already built up with existing retail (that some like and others don't) and LA Live is a new development.

I shop at the Grove and enjoy the vibrant atmosphere, but also agree that it's "inside out". That is, it creates insulation from the surrounding neighborhood, rather than integration with the neighborhood. I think a Grove-like concept would only work Downtown if its aim is integration, not insulation.
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