The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[sailor734]

Just because you can get external money to help fund something doesn't mean it should be done.
Putting time, money and effort into eliminating road travel lanes in favour of building and maintaining unused bike lanes makes about as much sense as creating a new city department dedicated to palm tree maintenance

[adamuptownsj]

No one uses the stupid bike lanes we have already. We're running a surplus, we don't need trilateral funding for line painting.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Just because you can get external money to help fund something doesn't mean it should be done.
Putting time, money and effort into eliminating road travel lanes in favour of building and maintaining unused bike lanes makes about as much sense as creating a new city department dedicated to palm tree maintenance

Palm tree maintenance might not make much sense, but I think we could probably get some coastal redwoods or giant sequoia trees growing here in Saint John with all the fog.

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

No one uses the stupid bike lanes we have already. We're running a surplus, we don't need trilateral funding for line painting.

Only Siths speak in absolutes, Adam. It's factually incorrect to say no one uses the bike lanes. Moreover, it's silly to call them stupid. We get it, you don't like cycling... you've made it clear many, many times on here.

I happen to think bike lanes and bike paths are good things, and as DarkHarbour pointed out, it doesn't really cost anything extra to add them when doing road construction. I'd say the council's support for bike lanes is one of the few smart things that they support.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Palm tree maintenance might not make much sense, but I think we could probably get some coastal redwoods or giant sequoia trees growing here in Saint John with all the fog.



Only Siths speak in absolutes, Adam. It's factually incorrect to say no one uses the bike lanes. Moreover, it's silly to call them stupid. We get it, you don't like cycling... you've made it clear many, many times on here.

I happen to think bike lanes and bike paths are good things, and as DarkHarbour pointed out, it doesn't really cost anything extra to add them when doing road construction. I'd say the council's support for bike lanes is one of the few smart things that they support.

You say it's incorrect to say "no one" uses the bike lanes. That's probably true but we don't really know as the city has NEVER DONE A TRAFFIC COUNT.

The cynics among us might suppose that is because they don't want to confirm that the actual daily usage numbers are vanishingly small.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

You say it's incorrect to say "no one" uses the bike lanes. That's probably true but we don't really know as the city has NEVER DONE A TRAFFIC COUNT.

The cynics among us might suppose that is because they don't want to confirm that the actual daily usage numbers are vanishingly small.

Why are Saint Johners so obsessed with traffic and commuting issues, when we live in a positively tiny little city?

Saint John's streets have never looked better. Sounds like we need a thread for Active Transportation so y'all can bemoan the bike lanes to your hearts content.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

You say it's incorrect to say "no one" uses the bike lanes. That's probably true but we don't really know as the city has NEVER DONE A TRAFFIC COUNT.

The cynics among us might suppose that is because they don't want to confirm that the actual daily usage numbers are vanishingly small.

They'll never do a traffic count. Purely aspirational construction. It makes them feel good so they do it.

The one place they could work is around Lower Cove Loop up Broad/Crown to Rockwood, which has actually seen a couple of deaths, and is far too wide for the road usage seen, But instead the dolts ran them down low-traffic, one-way, Charlotte, and now City Road, and are planning to put them up Sydney in 2026.

Main Street could have been done with a single multi-use path on the north side of the street, eliminating one lane, and a resurfacing job, and instead they spent millions on barricades, signage, paint, lights, and concrete work which will be... interesting to see this winter.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

They'll never do a traffic count. Purely aspirational construction. It makes them feel good so they do it.

The one place they could work is around Lower Cove Loop up Broad/Crown to Rockwood, which has actually seen a couple of deaths, and is far too wide for the road usage seen, But instead the dolts ran them down low-traffic, one-way, Charlotte, and now City Road, and are planning to put them up Sydney in 2026.

Main Street could have been done with a single multi-use path on the north side of the street, eliminating one lane, and a resurfacing job, and instead they spent millions on barricades, signage, paint, lights, and concrete work which will be... interesting to see this winter.

It will be even more interesting to see after a winter or two of Saint John City Works Department's "precision" plowing.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

They'll never do a traffic count. Purely aspirational construction. It makes them feel good so they do it.

The one place they could work is around Lower Cove Loop up Broad/Crown to Rockwood, which has actually seen a couple of deaths, and is far too wide for the road usage seen, But instead the dolts ran them down low-traffic, one-way, Charlotte, and now City Road, and are planning to put them up Sydney in 2026.

Main Street could have been done with a single multi-use path on the north side of the street, eliminating one lane, and a resurfacing job, and instead they spent millions on barricades, signage, paint, lights, and concrete work which will be... interesting to see this winter.

Oh no, what a terrible thing for a city to want to be... aspirational.

The Main Street redesign looks great, and all it will take is some more apartments in the area for people to start using the bike lanes to Uptown on a bike via main street. I'm sure people are already using the e-scooters in the those bike lanes all the time. While I consider those things to be death traps, I still might ride one considering how much quicker it is than walking, and how paranoid I am about my bicycle being stolen if I ride it Uptown and leave it locked up somewhere.


What Saint John really needs to get people using these bike lanes, is some city rental bikes! A dozen or so stations scattered along the harbour passage and near Main Street's bike lanes would get hundreds of more people riding bikes in Saint John, every single day!

The only thing Saint John needs to get rid of to make such a system work really well (or rather the province needs to) is to get rid of the mandatory helmet laws. Bike rental stations with helmets are complicated, and as far as I know Vancouver is the only city in North America with a city bike rental system that requires helmets.



If Saint John even had 10 of these stations, it would make a huge impact on people choosing to ride a bike as a form of transportation, rather than bike riding being mostly a form of leisure. Or as you so eloquently put it a few years ago:

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

70% of more of the 'urban cyclists' in town are 'dehoused persons of drug usage' who bike against traffic, on sidewalks, ignore signage, etc. You think they're using lanes for their stolen bikes?

I think your estimate is total BS

However, if there's even a kernel of truth to your gross hyberbole, then the city investing in city bike rental stations would be a huge help in getting those bike lane usage numbers up, and stolen bikes numbers down, as city bikes are very hard to steal, and have no resale value!

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think your estimate is total BS

I think your position is unrelenting, pie in the sky Polly Anna-ism......but to each his own

[Pugsley]

Never a dull moment on these threads.

On the issue of bikes lanes and active transportation, this isn't just about meeting current demand, it is about promoting usage.

It is also proven to be a means to encourage development, much like a major transit line, but at a significantly lower price. In this case, they are running a dedicated bike lane along City Road which, is a prime location for more affordable housing to be developed. People seeking affordable housing are more likely to access employment by walking, or if the safe infrastructure exists, by bicycle.

So, as much as some people hate the idea of bike lanes reducing car lanes, this type of work will also make improvements to the general road and walking infrastructure overall. When that occurs, it does have future potential to drive new development, specifically affordable housing or new commercial simply due to it being more accessible and visually appealing.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Never a dull moment on these threads.

On the issue of bikes lanes and active transportation, this isn't just about meeting current demand, it is about promoting usage.

It is also proven to be a means to encourage development, much like a major transit line, but at a significantly lower price. In this case, they are running a dedicated bike lane along City Road which, is a prime location for more affordable housing to be developed. People seeking affordable housing are more likely to access employment by walking, or if the safe infrastructure exists, by bicycle.

So, as much as some people hate the idea of bike lanes reducing car lanes, this type of work will also make improvements to the general road and walking infrastructure overall. When that occurs, it does have future potential to drive new development, specifically affordable housing or new commercial simply due to it being more accessible and visually appealing.

Exactly this.
We can't expect great walkable neighbourhoods to pop up amongst 6 lanes of traffic. It's not being built for 2025. It's being built for the future. I'd rather deal with some slower traffic on road diets that are safer than pull a Toronto where they only focus on cars + traffic + lanes and now underground highways.

Why are cities like New York, London, Tokyo praised? Because they focus on pedestrian as much (if not more) than cars.

Very rare I agree with Envision but on the bike lanes I'm all for them.

[bingun]

Has there been any further information on St. Patrick's School & St. Vincent's High School? It appears minimal progress has been made this year. I believe the same developer is working on the Loch Lomond Road development, so perhaps once that progresses further, he will pivot.

Barry Ogden usually has the occasional comment, but his last one at council was that there would be even more vacant schools soon, once the new South End/North End schools are complete and that we needed to encourage development.

[ell]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

Exactly this.
We can't expect great walkable neighbourhoods to pop up amongst 6 lanes of traffic. It's not being built for 2025. It's being built for the future. I'd rather deal with some slower traffic on road diets that are safer than pull a Toronto where they only focus on cars + traffic + lanes and now underground highways.

Why are cities like New York, London, Tokyo praised? Because they focus on pedestrian as much (if not more) than cars.

Very rare I agree with Envision but on the bike lanes I'm all for them.

Great points in favour of bike lane construction in this thread!

Should we be tearing up perfectly good roads and undersizing them by adding bike lanes? No.

Should we be using bike lanes as a simple change that corrects for unsightly, dangerous fast, oversized roads? Absolutely!

The improvements on Sydney and Charlotte are more subtle and may make more sense once the school construction is completed. Having lived between those two streets for the past five years (and having endured construction inconveniences for the past three), I can already see the value of these improvements, as a resident, as a pedestrian, as a cyclist, and as a motorist.

[JakeNB]

Someone is going to be killed at the Main St. -Metcalf intersection. The much of the car traffic turns right while cyclists will go straight. Terrible design and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Someone is going to be killed at the Main St. -Metcalf intersection. The much of the car traffic turns right while cyclists will go straight. Terrible design and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Aren't bike lanes supposed to prevent cyclists from being killed?

An 85 year old Saint Johner was killed at Metcalf and Adelaide a few years ago .

There's a long, long way to go to make Saint John's streets safer for cyclists.



We should aspire to have safer streets for cyclists and motorists alike.

Separated bike lanes and fully separate bike paths seem to be the best solution for making the streets safer, especially the latter, imo.

[CharlotteSJ]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Someone is going to be killed at the Main St. -Metcalf intersection. The much of the car traffic turns right while cyclists will go straight. Terrible design and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Main St - Metcalf is dangerous.
Metcalf - Lansdowne is insane. Turning cars not yielding to pedestrians. It really needs to be a full on 4-way stop.
I saw a car come up Paradise Row, blow through the new Main St stop area, smoked the green flexpole indicator, continued driving on the new bike/walk lane until they pull out on Main St. where the northbound bus stop is.
It's a zoo over there. The drivers are going too fast, not paying attention and disregarding pedestrians.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

Main St - Metcalf is dangerous.
Metcalf - Lansdowne is insane. Turning cars not yielding to pedestrians. It really needs to be a full on 4-way stop.
I saw a car come up Paradise Row, blow through the new Main St stop area, smoked the green flexpole indicator, continued driving on the new bike/walk lane until they pull out on Main St. where the northbound bus stop is.
It's a zoo over there. The drivers are going too fast, not paying attention and disregarding pedestrians.

Which is exactly why all these infrastructure changes are necessary. I hate going over speed bumps as much as anyone else, but there are so many streets where people ignore stop signs, posted limits, etc. that something has to change.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Which is exactly why all these infrastructure changes are necessary. I hate going over speed bumps as much as anyone else, but there are so many streets where people ignore stop signs, posted limits, etc. that something has to change.

If we had a PD that didn't spend most of their days answering calls related to homeless behaviour/drug overdoses we might be able to have some traffic enforcement.

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Which is exactly why all these infrastructure changes are necessary. I hate going over speed bumps as much as anyone else, but there are so many streets where people ignore stop signs, posted limits, etc. that something has to change.

My point about the Main Street/Metcalf intersection is that the flow of car traffic in the R lane involves a right turn up Metcalf while the bike lane goes straight through the intersection. Cyclists won't stop and drivers are unlikely to be looking over their right shoulder. Its a recipe for disaster.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

My point about the Main Street/Metcalf intersection is that the flow of car traffic in the R lane involves a right turn up Metcalf while the bike lane goes straight through the intersection. Cyclists won't stop and drivers are unlikely to be looking over their right shoulder. Its a recipe for disaster.

That was a danger long before this bike infrastructure went in, I've almost been hit a number of times there and in other intersections on my commute because a driver wasn't obeying the rules of the road.

Still the drivers' fault, people need to start looking in their blind spots.