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  #2501  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 10:57 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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To add to what I wrote above, this all goes back to the earlier discussion. Canada doesn't have the big urban options of the US. We have just 3 .... for now. Calgary isn't there yet. Hopefully, 40-50 years from now Canada will have 11-12? That would be a far better situation than exists today.
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  #2502  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 2:46 PM
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With the quarterly population estimates out for October 1st, the population clock dropped some 300,000 people. From roughly 41.8 million and change to 41.5 million and change.
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  #2503  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 3:13 PM
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Year on year inflation at 1.9% in November, down from 2% in October. Food inflation at 2.6%, down from 2.7%.
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  #2504  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 3:16 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Canadian dollar dropped below 70 cents this morning.
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  #2505  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 3:30 PM
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Canadian dollar dropped below 70 cents this morning.
Like I've said before, a 60 cent dollar is a great antidote to a 25% tariff.
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  #2506  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 3:57 PM
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Like I've said before, a 60 cent dollar is a great antidote to a 25% tariff.
True for our exports, but inflation for us lowly Canadians who need to buy stuff (much of it from the US) won't stay this low for long if our dollar plummets.
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  #2507  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 4:04 PM
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New provincial estimates out today and a big corresponding correction to the population clock to account for slower growth.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000901

The big 4 provinces:

ON: 16.17M (+47k)
QC: 9.1M (+44k)
BC: 5.71M (+21k)
AB: 4.93M (+43k)

Really looks like Ontario saw a big correction to its population downward as it has previously been growing by over 100k per quarter, now down to under 50k.
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  #2508  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 4:36 PM
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GreaterMontréal GreaterMontréal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeej View Post
New provincial estimates out today and a big corresponding correction to the population clock to account for slower growth.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000901

The big 4 provinces:

ON: 16.17M (+47k)
QC: 9.1M (+44k)
BC: 5.71M (+21k)
AB: 4.93M (+43k)

Really looks like Ontario saw a big correction to its population downward as it has previously been growing by over 100k per quarter, now down to under 50k.

It's an incredibly hard drop for Ontario. I don't remember a time where the province was growing the same (absolute) as Quebec or Alberta. If it continues over several quarters that could create a big correction in the housing market.
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  #2509  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 4:46 PM
Zeej Zeej is offline
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It's an incredibly hard drop for Ontario. I don't remember a time where the province was growing the same (absolute) as Quebec or Alberta. If it continues over several quarters that could create a big correction in the housing market.
I feel like this is a statcan correction and that previous releases may have been overestimating Ontario's growth, whereas the reality may have been in-between.

Maybe it was growing 80k per quarter (still massive growth)? That could explain the sudden drop in the numbers.
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  #2510  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeej View Post
I feel like this is a statcan correction and that previous releases may have been overestimating Ontario's growth, whereas the reality may have been in-between.

Maybe it was growing 80k per quarter (still massive growth)? That could explain the sudden drop in the numbers.
They revised their population estimates from the pop clock, not previous growth numbers.
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  #2511  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 5:07 PM
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Quebec lost about 50k on the population clock.
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  #2512  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 9:30 PM
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Kaboom! Looks like Canada's population Ponzi scheme economy has quickly come to an end. When compared to the same quarter last year, these figures couldn't be more different if they tried.

Thanks to Trudeau and his wild "post nationalist" immigration scheme, the country saw it's physical and social infrastructure collapse under the weight. Now things are reversing in quick order. This is why cities haven't been able to plan effectively for their future needs.........our population growth is 93% dependent on immigration and it's a political decision that can flip on a dime.

There use to be a general consensus between both the Liberals and Tories that immigration would be a very manageable 1% a year but, like everything else, Trudeau screwed that up and now we are heading into population decline as foreign students and TFWs visas expire and are not going to get renewed. This will accelerate under a PP gov't as he will quickly turf our bogus refugees out of the country and probably put a halt {or a major reduction} on family reunifications.
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  #2513  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Kaboom! Looks like Canada's population Ponzi scheme economy has quickly come to an end. When compared to the same quarter last year, these figures couldn't be more different if they tried.
Quarterly growth is still about 100% more than recent pre-JT numbers.
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  #2514  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 2:13 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Kaboom! Looks like Canada's population Ponzi scheme economy has quickly come to an end. When compared to the same quarter last year, these figures couldn't be more different if they tried.

Thanks to Trudeau and his wild "post nationalist" immigration scheme, the country saw it's physical and social infrastructure collapse under the weight. Now things are reversing in quick order. This is why cities haven't been able to plan effectively for their future needs.........our population growth is 93% dependent on immigration and it's a political decision that can flip on a dime.

There use to be a general consensus between both the Liberals and Tories that immigration would be a very manageable 1% a year but, like everything else, Trudeau screwed that up and now we are heading into population decline as foreign students and TFWs visas expire and are not going to get renewed. This will accelerate under a PP gov't as he will quickly turf our bogus refugees out of the country and probably put a halt {or a major reduction} on family reunifications.
I'm not going to defend the Trudeau government's record on immigration (or much about it, given that the man seems to be borderline delusional about his future these past few days), but credit where it's due: I'm sympathetic to the fact that the government juiced immigration based on good faith economic and demographic goals, and didn't reign things in quickly enough. But it is happening now, and it seems to be working as intended. To break down what's happened in the past few months where I live in Nova Scotia:

Year-over-year growth has fallen to the lowest level in a decade. But that's happening even as the province continues to experience positive interprovincial migration, and even though permanent immigration streams have been at record highs this year, following a previous record last year. (Q2 this year saw the highest quarterly immigration level ever, and Q3 wasn't much below that, and was 1,000 people above last Q3.)

The drop looks to be basically entirely down to a reduction in TFWs, and probably especially students, whose numbers were reduced this fall by an international enrolment cap. Inflows of non-permanent residents so far this year are down more than 7,000, and outflows up more than 5,000. So we're looking at abour 12,000 fewer people, all non-permanent residents. It's not likely to be a coincidence that vacancy rates in Halifax are now around 2%, after years stuck at 1%.

This is basically the best case scenario for slowing growth. The province continues to experience a strong inflow of skilled and educated newcomers who intend to stay long-term, while the in-and-out churn of temporary migrants eases dramatically.

I definitely acknowledge it would be much better if we hadn't had the strain of the past few years, followed by what looks like a big drop to a potentially stagnant couple of years. One of my concerns now is that developers will see vacancy rates shoot up, growth figures drop and rents flatline, and they'll shelve housing developments. That's exactly what we don't need--now is the time to catch up.
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  #2515  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 8:42 PM
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Quarterly growth is still about 100% more than recent pre-JT numbers.
Very true but the reversal is huge. We can't just kick these students/TFW out as we have signed a legal contract with them and hence they have the legal right to be in the country. As these contracts expire then they can be deported.

I think most will leave voluntarily but for those who don't, Trudeau will be too weak to really force them to leave but PP will have no such trepidations.
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  #2516  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 8:51 PM
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Very true but the reversal is huge. We can't just kick these students/TFW out as we have signed a legal contract with them and hence they have the legal right to be in the country. As these contracts expire then they can be deported.

I think most will leave voluntarily but for those who don't, Trudeau will be too weak to really force them to leave but PP will have no such trepidations.
I don't think that even PP will have the ability to do much when it comes to this.

Assuming that we want to do something concrete in response to Trump's border grievances, we will have our hands full just trying to keep people and "stuff" away from the border. We don't even have a true border patrol force of any kind at the moment.

We'll have trouble accomplishing that, so needless to say we won't also have agents raiding basement apartments in Brampton looking for kids on expired visas who have overstayed their welcome.
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  #2517  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 9:00 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
I'm not going to defend the Trudeau government's record on immigration (or much about it, given that the man seems to be borderline delusional about his future these past few days), but credit where it's due: I'm sympathetic to the fact that the government juiced immigration based on good faith economic and demographic goals, and didn't reign things in quickly enough. But it is happening now, and it seems to be working as intended.
Giving Sean Fraser and the Liberals a pass for "good faith" is a bit of a stretch I gather. If Sean Fraser and the PMO office actually listened to the experts like say Mikal Skuterland of UWaterloo in the first place, Canada wouldn't be in this predicament, and the country's decades long immigration consensus wouldn't be so thoroughly crushed and shattered.

The Liberals clearly decided that partisan gain (Katie Telford betting on millions of new migrants beholden to the Liberal party) and ideology trumped evidence-based decision making.
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  #2518  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 9:45 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Giving Sean Fraser and the Liberals a pass for "good faith" is a bit of a stretch I gather. If Sean Fraser and the PMO office actually listened to the experts like say Mikal Skuterland of UWaterloo in the first place, Canada wouldn't be in this predicament, and the country's decades long immigration consensus wouldn't be so thoroughly crushed and shattered.

The Liberals clearly decided that partisan gain (Katie Telford betting on millions of new migrants beholden to the Liberal party) and ideology trumped evidence-based decision making.
Bruised would be a better description. Immigration continues and will continue to continue.
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  #2519  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 10:25 PM
Dartguard Dartguard is offline
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Bruised would be a better description. Immigration continues and will continue to continue.
As it should but everyone in Canada now agrees that the Statue of Liberty experiment is over . Bring me your Poor your downtrodden blah blah blah.
Canada used to have a balanced and fair Immigration set of rules that Millions around the World respected. I was struck by many conversations I have had with newer Canadians in that past 4 years. ALL OF THEM mentioned that Canada has taken in too many folks too quickly and they felt stressed competing for housing and jobs. The Winters sucked too but they knew that.

Canada has the playbook in a drawer somewhere in Ottawa but like many Fed Policies in the last ten years the Student Council Cabinet decided to try different things. Pierre will just have to get back to the old plan and let the Lame Duck Donald provide cover with Crazy town upcoming.
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  #2520  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 10:36 PM
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As it should but everyone in Canada now agrees that the Statue of Liberty experiment is over . Bring me your Poor your downtrodden blah blah blah.
It's interesting how this changed. I feel like it's another case where Canada's been behind the times and so many Canadians believed they were more enlightened when they were naively moralizing while cynical politicians took advantage. A few years ago it was hard to bring up the idea that immigration could be too high without being shut down by accusations of racism or pseudo-scientific claims that any immigrant will always generate net positive economic growth, even though obviously there's a numerical level that the country cannot support and obviously immigrant selection makes an enormous difference and at some point if numbers go up standards must go down. For example, we don't have housing for 10 million new people this year, and it's obvious that if we bring in 10 qualified doctors that has a different impact than bringing in 10 unskilled immigrants.

It's probably for the best that economic migration can be discussed as a policy issue to be debated like others according to traditional objective metrics of whether it is good or bad for living standards in this country.
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