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  #381  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2024, 1:52 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Unless we're willing to shut down the bridge which by your argument benefits only Quebec, why would we not sacrifice a little-used park (within a stone's throw of several OTHER little used parks) in order to save ALL OF THE FRIGGING MARKET AND KING EDWARD. How does that realignment NOT benefit Ottawa, other than a few hundred milly or billy in property value increases and development along King Edward and Nicholas north. Make King Edward a slow boulevard (forget about 5 traffic circles, just use right-turn only connecting intersections at stop signs, and maybe one or two u-turn slips(one on each end, in opposing directions)) and reinstate the epic linear park that existed 100 years ago. BOOM 20 acres of parkland.

Strong NIMBY's who oppose adding traffic to the Vanier Parkway are also NOT contributing to Ottawa as a whole. It's a parkway designed for traffic.

Closing Nicholas is difficult. Exiting downtown through north-south centretown routes would be even more difficult.

Leaders have already studied this to death. Where in the study did the quick fix fall in the options analysis? I know the crazy-ass super expensive tunnel the length of the river and create the worlds biggest traffic circle in the parking lot of the RCMP at 1200 Vanier was the selected option... never going to happen.
Even if it was a cost free choice I don't think most would take paving over a park in order to get back a quiet King Edward. But it doesn't even acomplish that.

You are also forgetting not even half of the traffic is coming from Vanier/St Patrick. Sure if you close Nicholas and Mann exits that removes a big chunk but again most of those exits aren't used by Quebec bound traffic so you are creating even bigger problems.

If there wasn't local opposition to an East End Bridge the Feds paying for it entirely in lieu of replacing this bridge makes some sense but it's still a critical bike and pedestrian route and adding sidewalks and bike routes to a ring road bridge isn't going to help that.

It looks like we are getting a new multi use bridge and I suspect will never see a tram as governments change. Cons will be much tighter with transit funds and hard to see PQ prioritizing a connection to Ottawa for Gatineau.

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You wouldn't need to completely "sacrifice" Bordeleau Park in order to have a four-lane parkway-type road running through it.

Just looking at it on a map and the footprint of four-lane roads in the area, and 80% of the greenspace would be preserved at least.

(Sure there are environmental and other impacts. Not discounting them.)

But the trade-off would be a massively improved King Edward.
I don't think anyone would see it that way. How would there be a massive improvement? Is the section north of there really the problem anyway? It's further south where people interact as pedestrians and it cuts the neighbourhood in half.

Last edited by YOWetal; Jul 12, 2024 at 2:46 PM.
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  #382  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2024, 4:16 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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This park always seemed like just a footpath to travel from St. Patrick to Sussex more quickly than following paved roads, rather than a destination park. I often frequent the area on foot, exploring Green Island, Stanley Ave/Stanley Park, Rideau Falls, and back towards Boteler, and have not once gone into this park other than to look across it towards the river. The piers for the OLD old bridge are still out in the water, in the middle of the park. One could daydream about what would have happened had we kept that bridge going, a direct connection, upgrading from train to vehicles...

For local greenspace, you have the tennis court and playground at the south end of Bordeleau which could stay where it is, and a tunnel would dive underneath properties just within the boundaries of the park, and pop up again along St. Patrick before the bridge across the river (also to not piss of the Chinese). The intersection at Beechwood could also be rearranged to allow thru-traffic onto the Vanier Parkway rather than the low-thru-put signalized intersection.

For additional greenspace, you also have the 'park' greenspace around the union basketball court, the white Union bridges, the islands in the river, the pie shape at Cathcart and King-Edward, which could stay as the dog park, Cathcart Park, Jules Morin Park, the beautiful MacDonalds Gardens, Major's Hill, not to mention the All High Holy Stanley Park and New Eddy Park that are not to be touched at any cost.

Lowertown is low on park, because its the oldest neighbourhood in the City. Build a pedestrian bridge across Island Lodge so Lowertownies can get to Stanley Park, but I would venture to guess the Ton at New Edinburgh would doth protest the unwashed Lowertownies accessing their High Holy Lands.

Looking at History, its a shame St. Patrick was focused on connecting to the Market and points downtown, rather than connecting to the M-C bridge. With all the neighbourhood demolition 70 years ago in the name of 'City Building' to punch through St. Patrick in the Beausoleil area, the short direct connection to M-C suggested by Richard could have been made, and King Edward forever downgraded to local boulevard. But alas, here we are with our traffic sewer and best intentions.

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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Even if it was a cost free choice I don't think most would take paving over a park in order to get back a quiet King Edward. But it doesn't even acomplish that.

You are also forgetting not even half of the traffic is coming from Vanier/St Patrick. Sure if you close Nicholas and Mann exits that removes a big chunk but again most of those exits aren't used by Quebec bound traffic so you are creating even bigger problems.

If there wasn't local opposition to an East End Bridge the Feds paying for it entirely in lieu of replacing this bridge makes some sense but it's still a critical bike and pedestrian route and adding sidewalks and bike routes to a ring road bridge isn't going to help that.

It looks like we are getting a new multi use bridge and I suspect will never see a tram as governments change. Cons will be much tighter with transit funds and hard to see PQ prioritizing a connection to Ottawa for Gatineau.



I don't think anyone would see it that way. How would there be a massive improvement? Is the section north of there really the problem anyway? It's further south where people interact as pedestrians and it cuts the neighbourhood in half.
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  #383  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2024, 6:54 PM
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Williamoforange Williamoforange is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Can't find the table per Ward or neighbourhood, but here's a map from 2021. The City's target is 2 hectares per 1,000 residents. Lowetown is particularly bad. That corner seems decent, but losing that park would knock it down a notch or two.

Do wish the gradient was more obvious, red, yellow, green.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ttee-1.6034367

That said, yeah, tunnel would do the trick.
That map is a bit of a lie, as Ottawa definition of parkland has it ignoring parkland it doesn't own and general greenspace....for example bordeleua park is only the area where the tennis courts and dog park is. So DT areas numbers are significantly skewed lower due to the number of NCC owned parks and general open space that's not included.

But also there's 200+m for the entrance of a tunnel in the existing A.5/ king Edward approach and on st Patrick for a cut/cover tunnel. Though if were doing a tunnel just connect A 5 directly to the Vanier parkway
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  #384  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2024, 9:53 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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I wonder if this bridge will have a political champion in the next federal government?
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  #385  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2024, 10:33 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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I wonder if this bridge will have a political champion in the next federal government?
Seems very unlikely. I guess we might see a hard freeze on a lot of the infrastructure spending. Certainly a bike and tram bridge seems destined to die.
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  #386  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2024, 7:30 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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I wonder if this bridge will have a political champion in the next federal government?
Very curious how the PP Government would handle these types of lifecycle issues. Do nothing and let it fall under the next Lib Government?
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  #387  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2024, 7:30 PM
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  #388  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2024, 2:54 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Very curious how the PP Government would handle these types of lifecycle issues. Do nothing and let it fall under the next Lib Government?
Pretty much, yes.
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  #389  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 11:55 PM
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