Halifax's booming population puts a squeeze on performance venues

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by mattyt

The old baptist church in downtown Dartmouth went this route, now called the Sanctuary Arts Centre and seems to be booking a fair number of shows.

https://sanctuaryartscentre.com

That's great to see!

[Empire]

Great to see corporate support for historic preservation in Detroit.

Fantastic restoration of the Michigan Central train station by Ford.

A) Corporate support is very important for more than naming rights of venues.
B) Clear demonstration of how a restoration can be done when many would declare this building unsafe and beyond repair.

Michigan Central train station: AP
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/spor...e82b257d&ei=10

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

Great to see corporate support for historic preservation in Detroit.

Fantastic restoration of the Michigan Central train station by Ford.

A) Corporate support is very important for more than naming rights of venues.
B) Clear demonstration of how a restoration can be done when many would declare this building unsafe and beyond repair.

Michigan Central train station: AP
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/spor...e82b257d&ei=10

I recall when Ford first announced that it was going to do this. A very impressive effort. Thanks for posting this as I had wondered how it turned out.

[Keith P.]

Yes, it was a herculean effort that apparently has cost $950 million USD to date and of course is not completely done yet as many of the areas just have bare floors and remain unfinished. The restoration work to repair/replace most of the architectural features that were destroyed or stolen by local vandals/scavengers took a big chunk of that sum. It is a shame that the City of Detroit was in such dire financial straits over the decades that they just allowed that to happen. But the city in those years was an awful place to be.

One thing that concerns me here is that it seems it could easily return to being largely unused unless tenants embrace the location, which is very much an open question. The former wasteland around it has been cleaned up and made into parkland but that is a very large building sitting pretty much alone that needs lots of people working in it to be viable. That part of Detroit in general and nearby Michigan Ave. in particular is pretty barren at present. I know Ford stated early on that they would move their EV unit into it but I have to think it would need more than that.

[OldDartmouthMark]

That's interesting info, Keith. Clearly repairing the damage caused by deferred (or no) maintenance is an expensive proposition, which I suppose shouldn't be a surprise, since buildings like this would have been very expensive to build in the first place... plus, you have to bring them up to modern standards.

The cycle of boom, bust, and recovery has been an interesting one in Detroit. I haven't followed it much lately but I assume there is still a long way to go.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Yes, it was a herculean effort that apparently has cost $950 million USD to date and of course is not completely done yet as many of the areas just have bare floors and remain unfinished. The restoration work to repair/replace most of the architectural features that were destroyed or stolen by local vandals/scavengers took a big chunk of that sum. It is a shame that the City of Detroit was in such dire financial straits over the decades that they just allowed that to happen. But the city in those years was an awful place to be.

One thing that concerns me here is that it seems it could easily return to being largely unused unless tenants embrace the location, which is very much an open question. The former wasteland around it has been cleaned up and made into parkland but that is a very large building sitting pretty much alone that needs lots of people working in it to be viable. That part of Detroit in general and nearby Michigan Ave. in particular is pretty barren at present. I know Ford stated early on that they would move their EV unit into it but I have to think it would need more than that.

That part of Detroit is actually on the western edge of Corktown, one of the fastest growing neighbourhoods of the city, and the eastern edge of Mexicantown, a pretty intact and fairly vibrant Hispanic neighbourhood. Michigan Ave. has also had a fair amount of investment and new construction over the past few years, so it’s not really barren or desolate, just a work in progress. That whole area will see a major boom in construction over the next few years, one of the brightest parts of Detroit.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That's interesting info, Keith. Clearly repairing the damage caused by deferred (or no) maintenance is an expensive proposition, which I suppose shouldn't be a surprise, since buildings like this would have been very expensive to build in the first place... plus, you have to bring them up to modern standards.

The cycle of boom, bust, and recovery has been an interesting one in Detroit. I haven't followed it much lately but I assume there is still a long way to go.

The city is currently experiencing a pretty strong renaissance right now, with record construction and investment in DT and many of its neighbourhoods. Property values are skyrocketing, and the city is once again growing for the first time in 70 years according to the census bureau. The level of optimism is absolutely incredible considering how bleak and negative it was for so so long. I’m 59 and have always known Detroit as a great but deeply troubled city. Still lots of work to do, but it has real momentum now, and it shows. The future is very bright for once.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by north 42

The city is currently experiencing a pretty strong renaissance right now, with record construction and investment in DT and many of its neighbourhoods. Property values are skyrocketing, and the city is once again growing for the first time in 70 years according to the census bureau. The level of optimism is absolutely incredible considering how bleak and negative it was for so so long. I’m 59 and have always known Detroit as a great but deeply troubled city. Still lots of work to do, but it has real momentum now, and it shows. The future is very bright for once.

Thanks for the info!

For so many decades, Detroit was considered the epicentre of the auto industry in North America and from an architectural and industrial point of view, most impressive. It was almost shocking to see (remotely) how far it had fallen by the 1990s.

In much the same way, it is pleasantly surprising to see its recovery and the return of optimism to the city. The restoration of some of its grand buildings is a great side effect of the city’s resurgence.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

For so many decades, Detroit was considered the epicentre of the auto industry in North America and from an architectural and industrial point of view, most impressive. It was almost shocking to see (remotely) how far it had fallen by the 1990s.

This is the part of Michigan Ave to which I was referring. Thankfully most of the derelict and burned-out buildings have been removed, leaving many empty lots. While the building is very impressive, the area appears less than vibrant. One can only hope the infusion of tenants, if it occurs, will result in supporting businesses arriving to make the area more appealing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Interesting. Revitalization has to start somewhere, so hopefully this will be the spark. It cost Ford a bundle, but I imagine there are intangible benefits in reputation and good will from saving this significant building. Either way, it’s good to see a company do something positive for the community, when the pure business case would probably be to tear it down.

[Empire]

It would be really nice if the Armoury Building could be used for some civic purpose like a Time Out Market.

Halifax Armoury: Google
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6517343,-63.5877358,3a,75y,104.62h,110.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa98bv_fGPrRqlCWwsu2KKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Empire

It would be really nice if the Armoury Building could be used for some civic purpose like a Time Out Market.

Halifax Armoury: Google
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6517343,-63.5877358,3a,75y,104.62h,110.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa98bv_fGPrRqlCWwsu2KKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

The Construction stuff is gone and the Armouries are back supporting the Halifax Rifles and the PLF as well as the HQ for 36 Brigade. Not going anywhere although I see the potential as the space could easily be reconfigured to host a 1500-2000 person performing space.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

The Construction stuff is gone and the Armouries are back supporting the Halifax Rifles and the PLF as well as the HQ for 36 Brigade. Not going anywhere although I see the potential as the space could easily be reconfigured to host a 1500-2000 person performing space.

Maybe a shared space would work. It should retain the esteemed military presence for sure.

Halifax Armoury: Google
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6517343,-63.5877358,3a,75y,104.62h,110.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa98bv_fGPrRqlCWwsu2KKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Empire

Maybe a shared space would work. It should retain the esteemed military presence for sure.

Halifax Armoury: Google
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6517343,-63.5877358,3a,75y,104.62h,110.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa98bv_fGPrRqlCWwsu2KKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

The Army does not like to share.There have been big changes in what units used to call the Armouries home. The Artillery unit is now in Bayers Lake. The Service unit and Military police are in Windsor park and Lower Sackville and the engineers are at Shearwater.
The Officers mess had to be moved to Artillery Park after the non commissioned veterans of Afghanistan came home and called out the non volunteering Officers as cowards and professional students . Things got "uncomfortable" for the bloated Officer cadre of the PLF.
The construction activity in the Google picture highlighted the many tens of Millions DND spent refurbishing the West wall as damage from the Halifax explosion was starting to show. The front doors were also enlarged as the Army's rolling gear now is much larger than the Horse drawn apparatus of yester year.Most of the parade square inside the building now houses the TAPV and army Truck fleets of the respective units.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

The Army does not like to share.There have been big changes in what units used to call the Armouries home. The Artillery unit is now in Bayers Lake. The Service unit and Military police are in Windsor park and Lower Sackville and the engineers are at Shearwater.

It's hard to imagine that site being ideal for modern military operations, but it does have a major cultural heritage role and is well located for some kind of civic purpose.

The underused lots along North Park south of the building are unfortunate and I find the residential buildings by the roundabout where it turns into Agricola really unappealing. They do show how much architectural standards have improved over the past couple decades.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

The underused lots along North Park south of the building are unfortunate and I find the residential buildings by the roundabout where it turns into Agricola really unappealing. They do show how much architectural standards have improved over the past couple decades.

If memory serves, the one on the west side was the first to be developed and unless I am very much mistaken was one of the early Danny Chedrawe projects. It was hailed as a great leap forward for the area as it was built on the site of a former gas station that was later converted into a drive-in car insurance appraisal facility. The one on the east side was always considered a terrible design. Now both are totally underwhelming.

[Empire]

Hats off to the city of Fredericton and all the stakeholders in the development of their new Performing Arts Centre. Very thoughtful design and the use of wood finishes is exceptional.

I had hoped for this type of interior for the Central Library but drywall and bare concrete won out due to economic factors. Perhaps Halifax can fast track a Performing Arts Centre and design a much needed centerpiece for the city.

youtube - Fredericton Performing Arts Centre
https://engagefredericton.ca/pac

[Keith P.]

Well, NB has lots of wood, so perhaps that choice for interior finishes should not be too surprising. Every time I see a news clip of proceedings in their Legislature chamber I am struck by the rather unattractive wood finishes on the walls there. The performance venue seems to have been inspired by our Central Library with its own version of the Killer Stairs (TM Regd.), however, which is most unfortunate. The main concert hall seems quite small with a capacity of just 850 for the main stage, which is significantly less than the Cohn. If a new venue were to be built here, it would need closer to 2000 seats.

[Empire]

The Downtown Gateway site would be ideal for a Performing Arts Centre. Too much emphasis is being placed on mundane apartment buildings in prime locations. Keep the Centennial Pool, add a Performing Arts Centre, source a major hotel chain and provide ample plaza public space along with architectural significant residential buildings. Will the city commission two major projects downtown, (Cogswell Interchange and The Downtown Gateway with no requirement for quality of design or past heritage component?

The Downtown Gateway concept:
https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default...0806rc1512.pdf

[Keith P.]

We need a performing arts space of some size bigger than the Cohn, but I really don't think this site is ideal with park/institutional space on 3 sides, residential on the other, and no easy access to it. To accommodate the 2000+ souls who might want to attend events it would need a better location.