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  #1881  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
By this logic, we should be worried about every single job in Canada moving to the US, whether it's doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers, lawyers, engineers, programmers, oil and gas workers, mechanics, custodians, or fast food workers. Pretty sure pretty much every job in existence pays more in the US.

Doesn't seem to be any mass exodus. (There are certainly those leaving to the US but not at some economic apocalyptic level).
There are a lot of factors that keep people in Canada, but we should still be worried. The US has always rewarded skilled professionals with higher pay, and the way I see it, gets more attractive as the economic gulf between our countries widens. From my personal perspective - I am an engineer and my fiancée is a registered nurse. The RN exam (NCLEX) is has been adopted by Canada, the US, and Australia, so her standards are recognized without any additional examination, which would make a move relatively easy. In my case, as an (soon-to-be) professional engineer, a Canadian P.Eng. is not reciprocally recognized as a US PE with the exception of 2 states at this time, being Nevada and Texas. In any other state, I would have to write technical exams. This is one barrier that has made a US move less enticing. Another is simply just the scale of change that would have to occur in our lives.

We have considered this path many times over the last couple of years, but we aren’t really interested in living in either of those states. However, if more state reciprocal agreements were in place for engineers, it would be a slightly different story if it was for a state we actually wanted to live in. We would both be able to make close to double what we make here.
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  #1882  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
It is an incredibly inefficient system to have individual doctors renting their own office space, paying their own staff, buying their own equipment, etc. It might have made sense 100 years ago when people lived in small towns but makes no sense in a very urban country.

I don't mind paying doctors more, but it should be going into their pockets to encourage them to go into family medicine or to not leave the country, not to inefficient overhead.
Multiple payment models for physicians already exist.

Some physicians are salaried, notably pathologists, laboratory physicians and public health officers. These positions come with full benefits and pensions. It should be noted that practitioners in these specialties tend to retire at the first possible opportunity.

In addition to fee for service, other payment options for contract physicians include capitation and sessional fees. Capitation usually means getting a stipend for each patient in your practice. As such, the younger and healthier your client base is, the more people you can have in your practice, and the more money you can make. As such, physicians who choose capitation are penalized for looking after the sick and the elderly.

The latest trend is for primary care physicians to band together in a group practice, potentially in a multidisciplinary clinic also staffed by NPs, pharmacists, physiotherapists and possibly social workers. They look after the patients as a group, and, if you want time off, then one of your colleagues will look after your patients in your absence. I think this is a good idea, and, by working in a group setting, this can reduce your individual overhead.

Group practices like this work less well for most specialists, because there are usually only a small number of physicians in each specialty in any given city.

Could we just put all primary care physicians under a salary arrangement and be done with it?

Most doctors would not like this. If we were employees, then there would be rules that could be burdensome. In particular, many young physicians do not want to destroy their lives like the current group of retiring physicians did. Most younger physicians (especially women who make up more than 50% of the workforce of younger GPs) work reduced hours, or, on a part time basis to prevent burn out, and to spend more time with their families. If they were state employees, would they have the freedom to do this?

Also, salarying physicians would almost certainly cost the government more money than the current paradigm. All expenses would be paid by the government, and, full benefits and a pension would be paid. I guarantee you that the cost of the health care system would balloon.
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  #1883  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 12:45 PM
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Considering GPs seem to be one of the biggest things we're hurting on at the moment in the provinces, banding them together into group practices seem like a good idea.

As noted, a given doctor can take time off and not leave their patients in a lurch, since others can cover for them. Plus you automatically have more eyes available to check on a patient.

And as our doctors reach retirement, it also means that a doctor retiring doesn't throw dozens/hundreds of people out onto the street (so to speak) all at once. Which is probably becoming more and more of a concern. (My own family doctor has been watching over us for 30-40 years now, and we know he's nearing retirement. I never really used him much until last year, but my mom and dad have depended on him for decades. I'm not sure what they will end up doing when he retires since he doesn't have any other doctors in his clinic to pick up when he retires).
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  #1884  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 12:49 PM
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I am not particularly wedded to the idea that all doctors should be government employees (although I am not really sure costs would go up that much because the government would only be paying for hours worked plus benefits, etc), but there is no other industry that operate this way and it only works because the single payer government is willing to pay for the inefficiency.

If you are a lawyer, engineer, dentist (for the most part) you get a job for a company that provides the kind of service you offer, you join a firm or you go into a partnership with others. The difference is that if you hire a lawyer, accountant, engineer, architect, etc. you pay for billable hours so the professionals have a very strong incentive to reduce overhead.
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  #1885  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 2:26 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
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Originally Posted by Nite View Post
Rents in Toronto are relatively cheap compared to comparable global cities and even mediocre US cities. Rent prices like house prices in Toronto are falling and are down 2.2% YoY
A 1-bedroom apartment in the old city of Toronto average price is going for 1,810 USD currently, i doubt you will find any lower in any other global city.

https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report

Here is what rent in the top US cities look like in May
The rental comparison with US cities is meaningless if it's not considered in tandem with Toronto's average after-tax wages in USD, which would be at the bottom of the pack.
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  #1886  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 5:56 PM
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Toronto's unemployment rate hits 7.9% in May.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t007a-eng.htm
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  #1887  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Toronto's unemployment rate hits 7.9% in May.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t007a-eng.htm
Higher than Moncton (5.2%). You can send us a few more of your huddled masses........
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  #1888  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Higher than Moncton (5.2%). You can send us a few more of your huddled masses........
Maybe they can build nicer high-rises than the lacklustre blocky stuff going up
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  #1889  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 6:52 PM
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Interestingly the employment rate and labour force has increased during this period in Toronto. But more people are unemployed and actively looking for work. This is more or less inline with my theories about a portion of "haves" relatively insulated from the issues going on and a growing segment of "have-nots". Contrary to some of the posts here the former segment of this population does in fact exist, but not to be too cheery here probably exacerbates the issues faced by the latter.
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  #1890  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Toronto's unemployment rate hits 7.9% in May.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t007a-eng.htm
Huh, that’s strange, since it’s a well-known basic universal law that every 1 FNS we bring in magically creates 1.2 jobs upon arrival; how is it possible for unemployment to go anywhere but down the more warm bodies we import???

There’s got to be something wrong in your data
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  #1891  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2024, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Huh, that’s strange, since it’s a well-known basic universal law that every 1 FNS we bring in magically creates 1.2 jobs upon arrival; how is it possible for unemployment to go anywhere but down the more warm bodies we import???

There’s got to be something wrong in your data
yes, it's well established that immigrant create at least as many jobs than they take up, how could the gta grow by a million in the last decade and have unemployment rate more or less remain stable with among the highest wage in Canada. Picking out 1 month doesn't change that fact.

PS. Wage growth in the last labour numbers is also back above 5% YoY continuing canada's largest run of high wage growth. Wage growth hasn't fallen below 4% in over 2 years now covering most of canada rapid population growth period which also proves wage suppression via immigration is not a thing.



the chat only goes up to Feb 2024, but since then wage growth dipped into the mid 4s but has risen to 5.1% again in the latest report.
With interest rates falling i expect more robust job creation and for wage growth to stay high.

Last edited by Nite; Jun 7, 2024 at 9:26 PM.
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  #1892  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2024, 5:38 AM
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I think the issue of wage suppression is more prevalent on the lower end of the wage scale.
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  #1893  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2024, 5:12 PM
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Next on the watchlist is Alberta hitting the 5 million milestone.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...018005-eng.htm
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  #1894  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2024, 9:50 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Huh, that’s strange, since it’s a well-known basic universal law that every 1 FNS we bring in magically creates 1.2 jobs upon arrival; how is it possible for unemployment to go anywhere but down the more warm bodies we import???

There’s got to be something wrong in your data
Another way to look at this "questionnable" data from StatCan Nite must be proud.

Toronto Unemployment Hits 317k People, More Than All of Quebec
https://betterdwelling.com/toronto-u...all-of-quebec/
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  #1895  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2024, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
Next on the watchlist is Alberta hitting the 5 million milestone.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...018005-eng.htm
They will definitely do it by the end of the year.
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  #1896  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
They will definitely do it by the end of the year.
When are the Q2 Provincial population official figures coming out?
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  #1897  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
It is an incredibly inefficient system to have individual doctors renting their own office space, paying their own staff, buying their own equipment, etc. It might have made sense 100 years ago when people lived in small towns but makes no sense in a very urban country.

I don't mind paying doctors more, but it should be going into their pockets to encourage them to go into family medicine or to not leave the country, not to inefficient overhead.
Physicians can incorporate which gives them massive tax breaks. Plus, they can claim all of those office expenses as well. I'm a long time nurse and I can tell you, physicians making less than 200K is a rarity in Manitoba.

Physicians are compensated very well based on billing practices- this is why we live in a society of polypharmacy. There are some sub-specialties that are under-paid because of the nature of the practice, for example, children's nephrology (dialysis clients that need to be continuously monitored) but they are in the minority. I have two physician friends (a couple) one a family physician and one L+D and they make just over 1 million annually between the both of them. Physician practice is highly dependent on how many clients they see on a daily basis and many physicians also teach in which they draw a salary for that as well. I highly respect physician practice, but you will get no sympathy here from me regarding how they are compensated.
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  #1898  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:46 PM
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Interesting, so applying the material deprivation index (MDI) commonly used by EuroStat, Food Banks Canada is estimating that 1 in 4 Canadians are living in poverty:


New report says 1 in 4 Canadians may be living in poverty
https://globalnews.ca/news/10572959/...%20essentials.
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  #1899  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Interesting, so applying the material deprivation index (MDI) commonly used by EuroStat, Food Banks Canada is estimating that 1 in 4 Canadians are living in poverty:


New report says 1 in 4 Canadians may be living in poverty
https://globalnews.ca/news/10572959/...%20essentials.
Interesting. Our official poverty rate using our own methods comes in at about 10%. A rate of 25% would put Canada at a higher poverty rate than the EU average, and amongst the most impoverished countries in the EU. I think it definitely makes a lot more sense to use a more multifaceted method as opposed to the income-only model that we use to determine poverty rate in order to truly get an apples-to-apples comparison, especially in light of crazy cost of living increases.

It’s worth noting that prior to 2018, we did not have any standard metric for measuring the poverty rate. In 2018, the Market Basket Measure (MBM) was adopted as the official measure. It is a unique statistical model developed by the federal government and the provinces over the course of 15 years.
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  #1900  
Old Posted Today, 5:18 AM
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Poverty rate for under 30 y.o. is 30.3%, not much lower for 30 to 44 (29.3%). 45 to 64 slightly better at 27.7%. Seniors (65 and over) sit at 11.1%. Given the sensitivities around the deficit, probably a good thing we’re only rolling out dental care for seniors before the next election. Nice little poison pill left behind for the next guy.

Report here:
https://fbcblobstorage.blob.core.win...ada_ENG_v6.pdf
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