TD Coliseum | ? | 4 fl | Under Construction

[matt602]

I don't think we even deserve to have them back. That said, he could very well change his tune once the renovations are done and the honeymoon phase in Brantford is over. I do hope they will stay and do well there but if they don't, obviously coming back to Hamilton would be his first choice.

[BCTed]

Copps is probably too large to host an OHL team, even with curtained-off seats. And I am not sure that many people in Hamilton really care about the OHL or AHL.

[Innsertnamehere]

I think OVG is likely targeting bigger fish than an OHL franchise for their hockey tenant - that's why. My bet is still that we get an AHL or ECHL team at a minimum. Given OVG's connections to MLSE, by bet is still that the Marlies will move down the QEW. The Marlies average closer to 7,000 fans a game, much higher than the ~3,800 the Bulldogs were averaging.

[Djeffery]

ECHL maybe, if the league wants to replace the defunct Growlers. I can't see the Leafs moving their AHL team out of Toronto though. They love having them right there at practice, they run the arena, they draw well, etc. Maybe they can convince some other team to move there

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

ECHL maybe, if the league wants to replace the defunct Growlers. I can't see the Leafs moving their AHL team out of Toronto though. They love having them right there at practice, they run the arena, they draw well, etc. Maybe they can convince some other team to move there

I mean, we used to have the Montreal farm team.. so I don't think it's a stretch to get Toronto's which is kind of competing with itself. Mind you I don't know hockey or hockey demand whatsoever, but I do think Hamilton would be a good market for a Toronto farm team. It could attract people into Hamilton and attract Hamilton locals. With Burlington apparently building a small 5000 person arena, they could have smaller events, and sportsball, and Hamilton could have the medium sized stuff.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I think OVG is likely targeting bigger fish than an OHL franchise for their hockey tenant - that's why. My bet is still that we get an AHL or ECHL team at a minimum. Given OVG's connections to MLSE, by bet is still that the Marlies will move down the QEW. The Marlies average closer to 7,000 fans a game, much higher than the ~3,800 the Bulldogs were averaging.

I don't know that the ECHL is really a bigger fish than the OHL --- it is third-tier pro hockey. You could even argue that the AHL is not a bigger deal than the OHL.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I don't know that the ECHL is really a bigger fish than the OHL --- it is third-tier pro hockey. You could even argue that the AHL is not a bigger deal than the OHL.

I think they were two separate thoughts... that they're going to target something bigger than the OHL, and in the meantime they get an AHL or ECHL team.

Personally, I think they'll be getting another OHL team again - which shouldn't be hard. The AHL is out of the question unless it's the Leafs AHL farm team.

NHL is out of the question. It'll never happen so everyone should just save the aggravation and wipe that thought from their mind.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I mean, we used to have the Montreal farm team.. so I don't think it's a stretch to get Toronto's which is kind of competing with itself. Mind you I don't know hockey or hockey demand whatsoever, but I do think Hamilton would be a good market for a Toronto farm team. It could attract people into Hamilton and attract Hamilton locals. With Burlington apparently building a small 5000 person arena, they could have smaller events, and sportsball, and Hamilton could have the medium sized stuff.

Used to being the key term. The Bulldogs were the Oilers AHL team prior to being Montreal's team (and that team was in Halifax and Cape Breton before moving to Hamilton). The trend has been for NHL teams to move their AHL teams as close to their own market as is practical (and interestingly, the Oilers remain the outlier in that regard as the original Bulldogs franchise is now in Bakersfield California). I mean, Hamilton would be a fine location for the Leafs if they weren't already in Toronto with a suitable arena, but they aren't moving out of there now.

[craftbeerdad]

Before the bad blood between Andlauer & the city, perhaps he would thought about moving Belleville Senators to Hamilton for a larger revenue gate, but that doesn't seem likely now.

Bakersfield doesn't make sense for Edmonton to move to Hamilton since directionally it's further away.

Marlies aren't moving to Hamilton, so it really comes down to hoping another OHL team moves to Hamilton which is quite plausible.

[king10]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I don't know that the ECHL is really a bigger fish than the OHL --- it is third-tier pro hockey. You could even argue that the AHL is not a bigger deal than the OHL.

The AHL is hands down bigger than the OHL.

[Innsertnamehere]

I would argue both are large just by the nature of them not being junior hockey. But yea, AHL is obviously the next best thing if you can’t get NHL.

I get the Marlies being hesitant to move, but at the end of the day Hamilton would still allow for day-of call ups of players, which is why they want teams close, and the team would have a lot more local meaning here than in Toronto. The only reason attendance is OK in Toronto is because people can afford to go to a Marlies game compared to the insane costs of the Leafs. The actual fan base is very small and the team gets basically 0 media attention.

[Djeffery]

The last 5 years of the AHL Bulldogs, they consistently drew a lot less than the Marlies in those same years. Also, up to Covid, the OHL Bulldogs were in the same ballpark for attendance as the AHL Bulldogs were. There isn't any evidence that moving the Marlies to Hamilton would be any improvement at all, nor does the attendance really indicate that the AHL is any more important to Hamilton hockey fans than the OHL is. (Which could be read in both cases as not that important at all to the region's hockey fans). In fact, I could see the imagery of being "Toronto's farm team city" not playing well in Hamilton.

[ScreamingViking]

For a supposed "sports town" Hamilton hasn't shown as much. It took DECADES for the Ticats to sell out and in a larger stadium they would probably not. And fans are probably ambivalent between any hockey that's sub-NHL (which is NEVER coming here on a permanent basis, so we all need to get over that)

Still, I can see the attraction of the Leafs moving the Marlies here. This town is somewhat divided about cheering for Toronto or Montreal, so maybe the farm team may help tip that balance... and this is anecdotal but among my group of friends they're probably equally divided between the two, with a few Bruins fans in there too.

But I don't think the Leafs would do it without another regular tenant for Coca-Cola/Ricoh.

Doesn't seem like the Hamilton arena operators would be that fussed regardless. If concerts are to be the main draw, sobeit.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I would argue both are large just by the nature of them not being junior hockey. But yea, AHL is obviously the next best thing if you can’t get NHL.

I get the Marlies being hesitant to move, but at the end of the day Hamilton would still allow for day-of call ups of players, which is why they want teams close, and the team would have a lot more local meaning here than in Toronto. The only reason attendance is OK in Toronto is because people can afford to go to a Marlies game compared to the insane costs of the Leafs. The actual fan base is very small and the team gets basically 0 media attention.

Strictly speaking, the quality of AHL play is obviously superior to OHL play, but junior hockey has a lot of appeal because almost all top prospects come through junior programs, but not all top prospects play in the AHL. There is a lot of buzz around draft-eligible players.

Whatever the reason for attendance being decent in Toronto for the AHL, it still tops the attendance that the AHL saw in Hamilton. And it is not as if there was a ton of buzz in Hamilton for the AHL Bulldogs. The Leafs' farm team might do better in Hamilton than past AHL entries, but the Marlies are more than fine where they are.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Strictly speaking, the quality of AHL play is obviously superior to OHL play, but junior hockey has a lot of appeal because almost all top prospects come through junior programs, but not all top prospects play in the AHL. There is a lot of buzz around draft-eligible players.

Whatever the reason for attendance being decent in Toronto for the AHL, it still tops the attendance that the AHL saw in Hamilton. And it is not as if there was a ton of buzz in Hamilton for the AHL Bulldogs. The Leafs' farm team might do better in Hamilton than past AHL entries, but the Marlies are more than fine where they are.

I don't think the current "holders of rights" to the arena care all that much about attendance for potential new teams/money-makers. They'll do what makes sense for their vision of the venue, and if having something 'regular' that makes a few bucks and doesn't mess up whatever is in the GRAND PLANS works, then it will be added.

[Djeffery]

Exactly, OVG feels like they can bring in a ton more concerts that can't get time in Toronto and don't seem to care if they push out 40 or so nights of 4000 attendance hockey to make that space available. It will be interesting to see if they carve into or replace London as the "third market" that often seems to happen as tours go through Ontario. They would be competing with themselves but with double the seats at their new toy in Hamilton, I can see London losing some shows.

Of course, maybe they have enough success in Hamilton that it shows Toronto needs a second arena (which many have been saying for a while now already), and I think that would be a jewel in Tim Leiweke's crown. MLSE has some potentially troubling ownership issues coming down the pike and who knows how that might shake out. But I digress lol.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

For a supposed "sports town" Hamilton hasn't shown as much. It took DECADES for the Ticats to sell out and in a larger stadium they would probably not. And fans are probably ambivalent between any hockey that's sub-NHL (which is NEVER coming here on a permanent basis, so we all need to get over that)

Still, I can see the attraction of the Leafs moving the Marlies here. This town is somewhat divided about cheering for Toronto or Montreal, so maybe the farm team may help tip that balance... and this is anecdotal but among my group of friends they're probably equally divided between the two, with a few Bruins fans in there too.

But I don't think the Leafs would do it without another regular tenant for Coca-Cola/Ricoh.

Doesn't seem like the Hamilton arena operators would be that fussed regardless. If concerts are to be the main draw, sobeit.

Now, I say this as someone who doesn't follow hockey, but I've never seen anything around town that would indicate this anything but Leafs Nation. There's always rando fans, and of course some will be Habs fans, but calling Hamilton split Leafs/Habs seems out to lunch.

I always got the impression that a lot more people cared more about the OHL Bulldogs than they did about the AHL version. Might have been the influence of listening to TSN Radio though (it's a real shame we lost that).

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Now, I say this as someone who doesn't follow hockey, but I've never seen anything around town that would indicate this anything but Leafs Nation. There's always rando fans, and of course some will be Habs fans, but calling Hamilton split Leafs/Habs seems out to lunch.

MLSE and Toronto-based media dominate locally, so the outward signs aren't there. E.g., good luck finding a depth-piece about the Canadiens in the Spec with Torstar running the show, and more Toronto games are on TV -- I recall often seeing Montreal on HNIC when I was a kid; this was much less the case in the 2000s.

There may proportionally be more Leafs fans these days, and I'm getting older so things have likely changed. But back in the 1980s and '90s it seemed like a fairly even split. Toronto had become a respectable team again by 1993 and Montreal was still winning, so the band-wagons were full.

But I bet there are a lot of closet Canadiens fans owing to their record over the past few seasons, aside from that year they beat the Leafs in the first round of the playoffs. And having their farm team here for a number of years helped too.

[HamiltonPlanning]

My prediction is that when Toronto lands a WNBA team, that team will play out of Hamilton. The team will still be called "Toronto" but play out of Hamilton. Similar to the Rock. Just a prediction.

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by HamiltonPlanning

My prediction is that when Toronto lands a WNBA team, that team will play out of Hamilton. The team will still be called "Toronto" but play out of Hamilton. Similar to the Rock. Just a prediction.

That’s bold but I have to disagree. If MLSE puts the bid in, I think they’ll play at the ACC since the WNBA runs in the summer when the leafs and raptors are off.

If they are able to play in Hamilton, that would be pretty cool but I’m doubtful.