Canadian City Proposals II

[Nouvellecosse]

Updated design is pretty decent.

[shappy]

Design-wise I prefer the tower version but I don't like the height. It's on the edge of the garden district / Cabbagetown and although I'm not opposed to some development in the area, I definitely don't want it riddled with tall towers. The fact that it would be taller than it's neighbours is a bad precedent. Midrise would be ideal.

Here is the church in context - the streetscape could definitely benefit from a modern addition
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q3a1gorBzSMEhn9N8

[logan5]

That church development is actually decent. The base of the building is slimmed down, and the design actually conforms with the church. The height is a none issue. At street level, you simply will not notice the tower.

[isaidso]

One has to wonder how far east tall buildings will be allowed to encroach. Those pre-WW2 residential streets east of Allan Gardens to the Don Valley are some of the most beautiful parts of the city. I imagine Cabbagetown residents have too much political clout to allow their neighbourhood to be destroyed but one has to wonder if we'll see a gradual step down in heights between Sherbourne and Parliament? It will be very sad to lose what's in between but this is the direction the entire central city seems to be going. Very little is safe from massive intensification.

[WhipperSnapper]

There's a lot to say about this proposal from the afterthought tower on top of a podium which tries to intergrate but ultimately clashes with the split faced stone church. Then there is the omission of the vertical transportation core in the rendering which would blow the potential of re-using the open, semi-communal, ecclesiastical gathering space. But, it's just another stacked shoeboxes application out of thousands in a collapsing investor home buying market. This is unlikely to be built and a rental market with insufficient returns on investment. As far as a supply of housing which, in my life, has never achieved that theorised balance in Toronto, the temporary population is much, much larger than the deficiency of housing and that must also weigh on investors.

[TorontoDrew]

It's a shame that these old churches can't be saved and repurposed. I imagine they are energy hogs and cost a small fortune to upkeep. That must be why we see so many church-to-condo developments. The sad reality is that most of these old churches have shrinking perishes. And they end up getting boarded up for years and wait for developers, just sell out to developers, or get torn down.

Unless somebody with a ton of cash wants to save these churches, development seems to be their best option.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

It's a shame that these old churches can't be saved and repurposed. I imagine they are energy hogs and cost a small fortune to upkeep. That must be why we see so many church-to-condo developments. The sad reality is that most of these old churches have shrinking perishes. And they end up getting boarded up for years and wait for developers, just sell out to developers, or get torn down.

Unless somebody with a ton of cash wants to save these churches, development seems to be their best option.

Yeah, counting on private developers backed by high yield growth funds to provide the civic spaces for the tenants of the next half million proposed high density homes is not going to achieve much but, the most generic of heavily commercialized spaces. The future skyline is great; skyscraper numbers approaching NYC. The architectural quality is, to be honest, well above what you would expect for mass produced housing. However, the city will be fundamentally poorer if most of these proposed were to be built.

There are many, many church to condo conversions in Toronto. This, in my humblest opinion, is not a fucking conversion. It's a facade slapped on a tower.
Example of an actual conversion https://www.jeffreyteam.com/info/the-abbey-lofts/

[TorontoDrew]

Yes this is like 90% facade.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

It's a shame that these old churches can't be saved and repurposed. I imagine they are energy hogs and cost a small fortune to upkeep. That must be why we see so many church-to-condo developments. The sad reality is that most of these old churches have shrinking perishes. And they end up getting boarded up for years and wait for developers, just sell out to developers, or get torn down.

Unless somebody with a ton of cash wants to save these churches, development seems to be their best option.

Comments like this are indicative of an all-too pervasive attitude in Toronto that seems to view density-maxxing development of all things as an inevitability, or as the only reasonable outcome.

The previous design was somewhat better, massing-wise at least, as it shifted the bulk of the new build somewhat away from the primary church structure - it was at least somewhat contextual and deferred to the existing structure; as opposed to just sprouting incongruously out of the roof and reducing the church to a condo podium.

Better yet though: retain the church in its entirety, and adapt & repurpose the structure. There are a total of 11,271 heritage-registered properties in the City of Toronto. This is maybe around about 2% of the >500,000 total number of properties in the city - it wouldn't be difficult to preserve those buildings in their entirety while still allowing development on the other 98% of the land. Here's one easy idea: allow the proposed tower on another nearby site, but instead of having developers contribute to public art that everyone hates, have them contribute towards a heritage restoration & retention fund that helps pay for the maintenance & renewal of heritage properties.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Better yet though: retain the church in its entirety, and adapt & repurpose the structure. There are a total of 11,271 heritage-registered properties in the City of Toronto. This is maybe around about 2% of the >500,000 total number of properties in the city - it wouldn't be difficult to preserve those buildings in their entirety while still allowing development on the other 98% of the land. Here's one easy idea: allow the proposed tower on another nearby site, but instead of having developers contribute to public art that everyone hates, have them contribute towards a heritage restoration & retention fund that helps pay for the maintenance & renewal of heritage properties.

My comment was not an attitude, not trying to be negative, just realistic — the only real way to keep these old churches around is if religion makes a big comeback or someone with deep pockets decides to save them. Lately, a lot of them end up turning into soup kitchens or food banks just to keep the lights on, but that’s more of a band-aid than a real solution. Eventually, most of these buildings still face the same fate.

And it's the church that's looking to sell up Why would a developer go looking for an empty lot nearby when there is a massive one on a corner for sale? That's unrealistic.

[TorontoDrew]

I'd like them to give the church a new copper roof on all of it's roofs when they do restoration on it's exterior.

355 Sherbourne Street by Andrew Moore, on Flickr

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm actually kind of partial to the United building project aesthetically, but it still annoys me to see the podium treatment given to large existing buildings when there are plenty of under-utilized lots nearby. To me, that sort of thing should be limited to places with ultra high building density like the financial district. Although better than tearing down and replacing them. And it does look like they're doing a decent job in this case.

[TorontoDrew]

I'm waiting for a decent proposal for that parking garage next to it.

[cranes]

https://www.therecord.com/news/water...bb3be713d.html
Revised 3-tower plan for Kitchener development reduces height, adds retail
The proposal would need approval from the city’s planning committee and council.

Sept. 18, 2025 - Revisions to a three-tower development proposal in Kitchener will reduce the buildings’ height while adding ground-floor retail space.
The towers are proposed by Woodbridge-based i-Squared Developments as the final phase of the Victoria Common development in the Margaret Avenue and Wellington Street area.
The towers would be built on what’s currently open space at the centre of the development that’s already home to four- and six-storey condominium buildings, and several blocks of townhomes.
Area residents had a chance to look at the revised plans during an informal meeting Tuesday afternoon in Oscar Lauber Park, which forms the southwest corner of the Victoria Common development.
No decisions have been made yet. The proposal could come to the city’s planning committee and council for a decision before the end of the year.
The biggest change will see the towers reduced by a total of 18 storeys — heights that had been proposed at 21, 33 and 35 storeys would become 19, 25 and 27 storeys.
...
The revised plan also adds ground-floor retail space to each of the three towers, where none had been proposed initially.
Nearly 3,800 square feet of commercial space helps to address concerns the area is lacking in retail amenities, said i-Squared Developments’ Joseph Hong...

A developer is proposing to bring three towers to this open space as the final phase of the Victoria Common development in Kitchener. Brent Davis/Waterloo Region Record


A revised rendering showing height reductions to three proposed towers at the Victoria Common development in Kitchener. TACT Architecture Inc.


Map showing the location (in red) of three proposed towers at the Victoria Common development in Kitchener. MHBC

[zoomer]

I think this belongs here. I was in the World Trade Centre in Montreal today and saw them setting up for the Montreal of the Future Exhibition. Took a few quick clips on my phone and put them in this 4K video, hopefully some locals will be enticed to check it out. Agora Montreal plays a big role as you’ll see. From checking their site looks like some of the exhibits were moved to the second floor for egress safety. SSP’ers will recognize some building diagrams and there is lots of models and other interesting info.

• Video Link

[TorontoDrew]

Thanks for sharing, I love stuff like this.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I think this belongs here. I was in the World Trade Centre in Montreal today and saw them setting up for the Montreal of the Future Exhibition. Took a few quick clips on my phone and put them in this 4K video, hopefully some locals will be enticed to check it out. Agora Montreal plays a big role as you’ll see. From checking their site looks like some of the exhibits were moved to the second floor for egress safety. SSP’ers will recognize some building diagrams and there is lots of models and other interesting info.

• Video Link

Nice.

[zoomer]

You're welcome TorontoDrew - definitely some good geek out info and displays for enthusiasts. I should check to see if they have any downloadable info online to peruse later on.

[2009]

18 floor mass timber residential proposal for downtown Kelowna

[James Bond Agent 007]

^
This looks more like something they'd build in Winnipeg.