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  #7761  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 5:36 PM
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Agreed in full, but as mentioned, Houston or KC would be in line...
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  #7762  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 5:39 PM
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If they need to fail in a few more sunbelt cities before realizing hockey belongs in the north, than so be it.

NHL has worked in a few southern cities, for sure. Tampa, Dallas, L.A. But Pheonix was obviously not going to work, and I don't feel so great about Houston of K.C. Vegas works because it's a huge tourist city, at least, that's my perception. And NHL was first to market.
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  #7763  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 5:42 PM
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Vegas works due to massive amounts of tourists from Western Canada year round.
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  #7764  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 5:53 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is online now
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Tempe is in a more attractive part of the metro for tourists imo. From Scottsdale for a 6:30 arrival on a weeknight google maps quotes a drive time between 45 minutes and 100 minutes for the Glendale arena. When we were down and watched a football game next door, we switched hotels to avoid having the drive twice.
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  #7765  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 6:38 PM
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I would love to see NHL hockey succeed in Arizona. However, through everything, I think it might be best to give another city a shot. It has struggled since day one, but I put that squarely on the various ownership groups than the players or fans. The new plan for the stadium and district would improve things for them significantly and maybe even go so far as cementing them in Arizona permanently, but I believe that securing a ‘yes’ vote on all three ballot items is going to be really difficult.

If they move, it’s anyone’s guess as to where the team will land. I know Houston is a favourite, but with recent expansion rumours talking about Atlanta, Austin, and Toronto2, as well as the long-lingering Quebec City question, it could be as simple as whoever has the most money and whoever is ready to make it happen.
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  #7766  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
If they need to fail in a few more sunbelt cities before realizing hockey belongs in the north, than so be it.

NHL has worked in a few southern cities, for sure. Tampa, Dallas, L.A. But Pheonix was obviously not going to work, and I don't feel so great about Houston of K.C. Vegas works because it's a huge tourist city, at least, that's my perception. And NHL was first to market.
In fairness the NHL's southern expansion has had quite a few successes.

The ignominy is really not so much about having teams in the southern US, but the assumed hostility to legit Canadian cities that could support the NHL like Winnipeg (they didn't really want to go back there) and Quebec City (still resisting going back there).
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  #7767  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ericmacm View Post
I would love to see NHL hockey succeed in Arizona. However, through everything, I think it might be best to give another city a shot. It has struggled since day one, but I put that squarely on the various ownership groups than the players or fans. The new plan for the stadium and district would improve things for them significantly and maybe even go so far as cementing them in Arizona permanently, but I believe that securing a ‘yes’ vote on all three ballot items is going to be really difficult.

If they move, it’s anyone’s guess as to where the team will land. I know Houston is a favourite, but with recent expansion rumours talking about Atlanta, Austin, and Toronto2, as well as the long-lingering Quebec City question, it could be as simple as whoever has the most money and whoever is ready to make it happen.
Atlanta had two shots at it, and failed both times. Though I wouldn't want to shut the door to a City that has had a team and lost it (worked out in Winnipeg, I'm sure it would in Quebec City), I don't think Atlanta should have a third try, at least not yet.

Quebec City and TO2 are probably out as they are in the east.

I would prefer Austin over Houston. Austin only has an MLS team at the moment, it has a more urban vibe. Feels like a team would be more successful there over Houston.
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  #7768  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
In fairness the NHL's southern expansion has had quite a few successes.

The ignominy is really not so much about having teams in the southern US, but the assumed hostility to legit Canadian cities that could support the NHL like Winnipeg (they didn't really want to go back there) and Quebec City (still resisting going back there).
I'm honestly surprised the NHL doesn't give more weight to potential TV ratings. When Canadian and Original 6 teams are out, TV ratings must drop significantly.
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  #7769  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 6:57 PM
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Nhl would be better served with splitting into 4 conferences. Canada, Europe, US west and US east and make it like champions league or ncaa final four. European division would get the league into a much larger sphere of influence and revenue.
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  #7770  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Atlanta had two shots at it, and failed both times. Though I wouldn't want to shut the door to a City that has had a team and lost it (worked out in Winnipeg, I'm sure it would in Quebec City), I don't think Atlanta should have a third try, at least not yet.

Quebec City and TO2 are probably out as they are in the east.

I would prefer Austin over Houston. Austin only has an MLS team at the moment, it has a more urban vibe. Feels like a team would be more successful there over Houston.
I believe that Atlanta can make it work, but as long as it has nothing to do with any previous ownership elements. I do agree that they should wait, though, given their track record.

I also agree that Austin would be my preferred location in the US for a new team to land. Houston is a massive city, but there are already so many professional teams that it might be hard to break into the market. Austin is young and affluent with minimal additional professional sports competition like you mentioned. Being able to get a foothold in Austin would likely translate to similar success that has been seen with Vegas.
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  #7771  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 7:57 PM
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The NHL has been most successful in non-traditional markets where there is not much of a pro sports offering, or at least no rival wintertime pro sports team, which generally means no NBA team.
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  #7772  
Old Posted May 16, 2023, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thurmas View Post
Vegas works due to massive amounts of tourists from Western Canada year round.
I think if you go back to one of the several appearances George McPhee has made on the Bob McCown podcast the last couple years, he said in one of them that the majority of their tickets are sold locally.

As for the Coyotes, Bettman was on that podcast a week or so ago and said that the Coyotes sold more tickets in dollar value last year in the college arena than they did in Glendale the year before where they averaged over 11000 a game. I don't know how that relates to a general population vote to get a deal done but I think it might speak well in terms of financial support in Tempe.
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  #7773  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 12:09 AM
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From what I hear elsewhere the Temps proposal is likely to be approved. I guess we will find out in a few hours.
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  #7774  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 12:18 PM
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Coyotes' arena plan in Tempe rejected by voters; future cloudy

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...-future-cloudy
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  #7775  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 12:47 PM
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Coyotes' arena plan in Tempe rejected by voters; future cloudy

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...-future-cloudy
Yipee
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  #7776  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 1:20 PM
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From what I hear elsewhere the Temps proposal is likely to be approved. I guess we will find out in a few hours.
You need new sources
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  #7777  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Houston makes the most sense to move the Yotes - especially if Dallas gets to the Cup.
One could argue Houston has a better hockey tradition than Dallas.
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  #7778  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 7:21 PM
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  #7779  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 7:55 PM
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Hey look! Another T-Mobile arena. Love when a league has several arenas with the same name.

Owner of the Sacramento Kings NBA was allowed to look at the Sens books during the bidding process, even though he apparently had no intention of buying the team. So maybe a top contender?

Quote:
1. Salt Lake City, Vivint Arena, 14,000: If these were power rankings, this entry would be No. 1, especially since Utah Jazz and Real Salt Lake owner Ryan Smith met in late March with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, as reported by Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman. And Smith, who bought the building and the Jazz in December 2020, hasn't exactly dampened the enthusiasm, replying to a fan's tweet asking to bring the Stanley Cup Playoffs to Salt Lake City with a cryptic, "In motion."

A move due north by the Coyotes to Salt Lake City would also align with keeping the club in the Western Conference, mark a return to a market rich in hockey history, might well foster a rivalry with the Avalanche and Golden Knights and, although it would be a time-share with the Jazz, there's a decent building available to immediately move into. Sure, it would be the second-oldest building in the league, but there is promise of the Winter Olympics returning to the city, which would bring along with it a modern facility. Plus, there's something to be said for a city that wants a team.

2. Houston, Toyota Center, 17,800: This surely is the most logical destination. The NHL has been dying to move to Houston, the No. 5 U.S. market by population (No. 7 by TV market), for years. Sure, it takes away a mega expansion-team fee, but don't you think we're at peak NHL? We're good at 32 teams. And there hasn't been a passionate interest by owners of the NBA's Rockets to have an NHL tenant in the building, frankly.

But a move to Houston would keep the team in the Western Conference, actually makes for a shorter trip than Phoenix for most fellow Central Division teams, aligns them with the Central time zone and creates an instant rivalry with the Dallas Stars. Heck, hold an outdoor game at one of those outrageous high school football stadiums in the state to kick off the first season. You could even call them the Aeros, or the Houston Howes. Bonus: Arena holds more than 4,600 capacity for NHL games (copy and paste that sentence for all these entries).

3. Sacramento, Golden 1 Center, tbd (17,608 for basketball): The No. 20 TV market is in the mix because Kings owner Vivek Ranadivé apparently visited Ottawa as part of the Senators sales process, which could mean he'd be up for taking on an existing team. This one feels like it works better on paper than in actuality, given there's not much history of hockey in this city or in this particular arena. But the NHL loves California, Sacramento is the No. 20 TV market and you could keep the team in the West. And they'd get to keep the San Jose Sharks company.

4. Kansas City, T-Mobile Center, 17,544: Kansas City seems to get thrown into the mix every time it's rumoured the Coyotes are moving, so why not toss the city in here again? But it does make some sense. T-Mobile is operated by Anschutz Entertainment Group, which owns the Los Angeles Kings and Crypto.com Arena — so there's familiarity with how the NHL does things — and is perfectly suited for hockey. It was built in 2005, too, so is fairly modern. A team here would be in the Central time zone, closer to other teams in the division and also provide a good regional rival to the neighbouring St. Louis Blues.

5. Oklahoma City, Paycom Center, 15,152 and/or Tulsa, BOK Center, 17,096: Most of the same stuff for Houston applies here, too. Same conference, time zone, instant rivalry with nearby Dallas (almost equidistant to Houston). And if you're concerned about moving from the No. 5 population market to the No. 20 market by population, OKC is bigger than Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Raleigh — and that's without adding nearby Tulsa to the mix, which would put the team in the same population ballpark as Columbus and more than Nashville. Sure, as with Houston, there would be building-sharing with an NBA team, but where it makes sense is that the pro facilities could be shared, unlike the Coyotes' set up with ASU that includes practising on the community rink.

Tulsa is an hour-plus northeast of Oklahoma City and, as any fan of the Tulsa Oilers (ECHL) could tell you, has a pretty decent-sized arena in the Bank of Oklahoma Center and has all the same pluses as above, enough so in fact it could stand alone. And Tulsa, along with OKC, provides the NHL with a golden opportunity to diversify its ownership base. Outside of Alaska, Oklahoma has the highest percentage (13 per cent) of Indigenous Peoples in the United States. Tulsa is home to the Osage, Cherokee and Muskogee Nations; why not bring them into the ownership fold and take a step toward greater inclusion? Change the team nickname to something appropriate, give the team an identity and the chance to work itself into the fabric of the community.

Pipe dream – Quebec City, Videotron Centre, 18,259: You want a team in Quebec City. I want a team in Quebec City. Heck, what Canadian doesn't want a team in Quebec City? It's the right idea. It worked really well before. Can you imagine how much faster the Montreal Canadiens' rebuild would happen if there was a rival in Quebec City?

But Corporate America doesn't want a team in Quebec City, so therefore there will not be a team in Quebec City anytime soon. Which is a shame.

The city has a great arena (if it were in today's NHL, it would rank 20th by capacity), a passionate and knowledgable fan base and history. Sure, it's a smaller population centre and corporate bucks are lowish, but the same could be said for Winnipeg, and that seems to have worked out. Oh, and you can guarantee that the Quebec Nordiques v.2 would draw more than 4,600 each night. Actually, they might draw that many to practices.
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  #7780  
Old Posted May 17, 2023, 8:20 PM
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Salt Lake City, Sacramento and Oklahoma City seem like odd choices considering that they're smaller markets that already have NBA teams in direct competition. I mean, SLC is smaller than Calgary... would anyone realistically suggest putting a NBA team in Calgary too?

Why not San Diego? It's much bigger than those three, there's no NBA competition, and it legitimately needs a new arena, the existing one won't work as it's very old and small. So I'm sure the local authorities would play ball on getting a new one built.
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