Hamilton City Centre | ? | 3x30 & 24 fl | Proposal

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

north would be on the right hand side in this photo - the dark building in the center is the old city hall so that would be james street with the lister block under it and king william going up and down - although it changed to a street that no longer exists going up as thats where the footprint of jackson and the city square is now.

the street running up and down at the far left is king street - the fancy building on the corner on the far left was the old bank, now replaced by that skinny blue glass bank building on the corner of king and james.

Oh good lord. That was all lost for Jackson Square? I knew it encompassed several blocks and dozens (hundreds?) of Victorian era buildings, but the old City Hall looks incredible. What a loss.

Thanks very much, Chronamut! Really appreciate this.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Oh good lord. That was all lost for Jackson Square? I knew it encompassed several blocks and dozens (hundreds?) of Victorian era buildings, but the old City Hall looks incredible. What a loss.

Thanks very much, Chronamut! Really appreciate this.

Not a problem - the old city hall wasnt big enough and was drafty so they demolished it for the more modern one further up - they also demolished a good portion of stuff for this one too - man do we love bulldozing our history..

[TheRitsman]

Don't forget that York Blvd was also demolished to make a grand vehicle boulevard entering the city too. Add that new city hall is also much too small. I think more than 50% of staff work out of a different building than City Hall.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Don't forget that York Blvd was also demolished to make a grand vehicle boulevard entering the city too. Add that new city hall is also much too small. I think more than 50% of staff work out of a different building than City Hall.

Yeah they work out of the lister block and lister annex as well. How ironic that they work so close to where they would have originally worked in the old city hall.

To be fair the new city hall has a LOT of wasted space around it - like.. a LOT.

[SFUVancouver]

Municipal government 'campus' precincts can be a pretty good model for development and daytime activation of an area. The City of Vancouver's original City Hall building at this point only contains a small proportion of staff. Most now work out of leased office space in mixed use buildings adjacent to City Hall, with several purpose-built for the City as sole tenant. When the Broadway Subway extension of SkyTrain is complete, it is anticipated that the City will develop a large new office building on the city block it owns adjacent to the Broadway-City Hall SkyTrain station and across the street from City Hall and consolidate much of its distributed staff enclaves into this new official City Hall annex. The (potentially) vacated office space is of sufficiently moderate size (all in the 30,000-50,000 sqft class if memory serves) and generally modern standards that they should be swiftly taken up by the market.

[Chronamut]

We still have too much vacant office space here - I think the right house is still pretty much empty - the super high taxes is probably one deterrent - the pandemic and many working from home probably another.

Hopefully the influx of new people will = more job prospects and more filled up office space.

[Innsertnamehere]

IIRC City Hall was actually designed for a third "wing" to get built out the back of it, which the City has just never done for whatever reason.

Ultimately office space is just dirt cheap downtown so they just rent it I guess, though them taking the Lister Block expansion was a bit odd to me.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Municipal government 'campus' precincts can be a pretty good model for development and daytime activation of an area. The City of Vancouver's original City Hall building at this point only contains a small proportion of staff. Most now work out of leased office space in mixed use buildings adjacent to City Hall, with several purpose-built for the City as sole tenant. When the Broadway Subway extension of SkyTrain is complete, it is anticipated that the City will develop a large new office building on the city block it owns adjacent to the Broadway-City Hall SkyTrain station and across the street from City Hall and consolidate much of its distributed staff enclaves into this new official City Hall annex. The (potentially) vacated office space is of sufficiently moderate size (all in the 30,000-50,000 sqft class if memory serves) and generally modern standards that they should be swiftly taken up by the market.

I do agree that spreading staff out is generally a good idea to improve economic vitality of different areas from daytime lunch staff. King William lunch time is filled with city staff during the summer, and it also allows staff to commute to different areas providing better options for people who live in different areas of the city.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I do agree that spreading staff out is generally a good idea to improve economic vitality of different areas from daytime lunch staff. King William lunch time is filled with city staff during the summer, and it also allows staff to commute to different areas providing better options for people who live in different areas of the city.

Do you think the city staff on King William are coming from offices elsewhere, or do you think they're making the short walk over from city hall?

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Do you think the city staff on King William are coming from offices elsewhere, or do you think they're making the short walk over from city hall?

Dude, the top floors of the lister block and the annex are all city workers lol - they're basically just walking out the building lol..

that and they used to be on the top floor of the jackson city center

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Dude, the top floors of the lister block and the annex are all city workers lol - they're basically just walking out the building lol..

that and they used to be on the top floor of the jackson city center

Oh I had no idea! That's awesome

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Oh I had no idea! That's awesome

Lol you people..

yeah yeah that's why the city workers moved into the annex - it was just an expansion of their existing office space, so not weird at all.

In fact it's such a big to do in the lister block that you can't even GO up to the other floors unless you have clearance, and there is a security guard there at all times


...ironically its a black man named patrick I went to college with thats one of the most chill lazy people on the face of the planet so it's kinda funny and ironic lol.. he's a good guy though. Originally from.. elsewhere where I think he is.. running away from past obligations if you catch my drift lol..

if you've been through the lister you've probably seen him before. I merely mention his skin colour for ease of recognition.

[Fruitloops]

Drove along King from E end as I do 3 or 4 times a week. As I went by Hughson it was remarkable to see the mix of old and new vis a vis the Right House V Cobalt v Effort trust building. Noted a For Lease sign on front doors of Right House building. Also noted 2 gals with a jammed shopping cart leaning against the security fencing of Cobalt right at Hughson. Another dude was ass parked right outside of Timmies doing whatever it is he does. And just a few feet further west several others with garbage and sleeping bags had taken up residence in a doorway. Feel bad for those trying to lease. No one in their right mind is going to expose their company and employees to that mess. Unless it gets cleaned up that stretch of King will forever be a no go zone. Lets see how long before the commercial space in Cobalt gets snapped up.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Fruitloops

Drove along King from E end as I do 3 or 4 times a week. As I went by Hughson it was remarkable to see the mix of old and new vis a vis the Right House V Cobalt v Effort trust building. Noted a For Lease sign on front doors of Right House building. Also noted 2 gals with a jammed shopping cart leaning against the security fencing of Cobalt right at Hughson. Another dude was ass parked right outside of Timmies doing whatever it is he does. And just a few feet further west several others with garbage and sleeping bags had taken up residence in a doorway. Feel bad for those trying to lease. No one in their right mind is going to expose their company and employees to that mess. Unless it gets cleaned up that stretch of King will forever be a no go zone. Lets see how long before the commercial space in Cobalt gets snapped up.

Couldn't agree more. The city needs to do something about it. I mentioned in another thread somewhere that a big accounting firm decided not to open an office here a few years ago specifically because of the things you mentioned.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Fruitloops

Drove along King from E end as I do 3 or 4 times a week. As I went by Hughson it was remarkable to see the mix of old and new vis a vis the Right House V Cobalt v Effort trust building. Noted a For Lease sign on front doors of Right House building. Also noted 2 gals with a jammed shopping cart leaning against the security fencing of Cobalt right at Hughson. Another dude was ass parked right outside of Timmies doing whatever it is he does. And just a few feet further west several others with garbage and sleeping bags had taken up residence in a doorway. Feel bad for those trying to lease. No one in their right mind is going to expose their company and employees to that mess. Unless it gets cleaned up that stretch of King will forever be a no go zone. Lets see how long before the commercial space in Cobalt gets snapped up.

This stretch from here to james has ALWAYS been bad, from as far back as I can remember - it's jut always been a magnet for beggers and others - and yet one block north of it the vibe is ENTIRELY different. I think once certain types of businesses move out - like what's BESIDE the right house, maybe things will change. It will be interesting to see how things change once all those people go in - like will I even be able to eat along king william anymore or will it always be booked to full capacity - and you know those prices are going to SKYROCKET for food there.. as now there will be a constant clientele. I mean it's already pretty pricy as it is - and I mean.. if it was anywhere else I might object - but it is the core, and traditionally the core SHOULD be the ritziest place in the entire city.

[atnor]

Slowly but surely homeless people and addicts will blend into their surroundings as more and more people settle in the core.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by atnor

Slowly but surely homeless people and addicts will blend into their surroundings as more and more people settle in the core.

Well one thing I noticed when king william was gentrified is that some of the beggers did try to migrate to there, as they KNEW those people have money.

But I always hear the exact same response from everyone when they beg "sorry I don't have any change on me" - we live in a cashless society - I've even see them go from car to car at red lights and ask - they need to change their game, noone wants to give them anything, and most likely never will due to that excuse alone.

I did try to give one money once, and then it was oh can you give me more? Can you spare 50? 100? I need it for such and such,.. and if you give them food they just throw it out..

and of course once you help one they will always try to get more from you whenever they see you.. it's such a sad predicament - I sometimes want to ask them "how did you GET into this situation in the first place, and why can't you try to apply for a job?" I know for some its mental health, others they can't afford the rent, but it would be interesting to just do a survey - talk to every junkie and homeless person, get their story, and see if there is something that can be done to address the trends.. we won't ever fix it if we don't truly understand the cause..

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Well one thing I noticed when king william was gentrified is that some of the beggers did try to migrate to there, as they KNEW those people have money.

But I always hear the exact same response from everyone when they beg "sorry I don't have any change on me" - we live in a cashless society - I've even see them go from car to car at red lights and ask - they need to change their game, noone wants to give them anything, and most likely never will due to that excuse alone.

I did try to give one money once, and then it was oh can you give me more? Can you spare 50? 100? I need it for such and such,.. and if you give them food they just throw it out..

and of course once you help one they will always try to get more from you whenever they see you.. it's such a sad predicament - I sometimes want to ask them "how did you GET into this situation in the first place, and why can't you try to apply for a job?" I know for some its mental health, others they can't afford the rent, but it would be interesting to just do a survey - talk to every junkie and homeless person, get their story, and see if there is something that can be done to address the trends.. we won't ever fix it if we don't truly understand the cause..

Michael Shellenberger did literally exactly this. He went around San Francisco and spoke to hundreds of homeless there. What he found is that the narrative that homeless are just 'down on their luck' or 'unhoused' is simply completely and utterly false. What he found is that 99.9% of homeless people share the exact same story. They got into soft drugs or alcohol that eventually lead to harder stuff. Their drug habit eventually would lead to them failing to pay rent. Once they stopped paying rent they got evicted, and ended up crashing on family or friends' couches for a few months. Eventually the friend or family member had enough of the drugs, and kicked them out. From there they ended up on the street, in a spiral of addiction. Seriously, give his book a read. It's eye opening.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Michael Shellenberger did literally exactly this. He went around San Francisco and spoke to hundreds of homeless there. What he found is that the narrative that homeless are just 'down on their luck' or 'unhoused' is simply completely and utterly false. What he found is that 99.9% of homeless people share the exact same story. They got into soft drugs or alcohol that eventually lead to harder stuff. Their drug habit eventually would lead to them failing to pay rent. Once they stopped paying rent they got evicted, and ended up crashing on family or friends' couches for a few months. Eventually the friend or family member had enough of the drugs, and kicked them out. From there they ended up on the street, in a spiral of addiction. Seriously, give his book a read. It's eye opening.

Pretty sure you summed it up pretty well there, and that most of the people here are the same. Some people are just weak of character, or have gone through some brutal realities and turned to such things to cope, or just have addictive personalities. I have learned with some people you just can't help them, because they don't truly want to be helped. They want to wallow, they blame the world, and they want to self destruct.

[TheRitsman]

Cllr. Kroetsch said last night that the demolition permits should be issued with the next few weeks and that it will take approximately 6 months. The developer has committed to protecting the pedestrian areas, with lighted covers. The bridge will be taken down as well by a large crane which will require the closure of York Blvd, and he said he would share when the date is so people can go down and watch.