VIA Rail

[Al Ski]

I like the new Via trains but I can't get excited that they're still diesel.

I guess when you live in a Developing World Nation you take what you can get.

At least they're not steam!

[J81]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But that was for the benefit of local freight customers.

No it wasnt at all. CN was going to ( they werent really ) abandon the Newcastle sub between Nepisiguit Jct and Miramichi which would cut off the Oceans route. There are zero customers on that stretch of track. The money paid to CN was to maintain that stretch and fix the slow orders on the Pacific jct to Nelson jct stretch.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

The refusal of the provinces of Quebec (Gaspé), Ontario (Algoma Central Railway) and B.C. (Vancouver Island and BC Rail)* to pay to maintain their existing intercity rail services suggests that NB is an outlier here...

*If you go further back into the past, you can add to that PEI and NL, which traded away any remaining rail services for improved roads, as well as Nova Scotia (Bras d'Or service to Cape Breton) and Alberta (Calgary-Edmonton), which brings you to already more than two-thirds of all Canadian provinces...

The Quebec government has sunk nearly 100 million dollars into the Gaspe line in the last few years to replace the decrepit bridges with the goal of reopening the line between New Carlisle and Gaspe.

Nova Scotia has also poured money into the shortline in CB to keep it “open” in case a container port was eventually constructed in Sydney harbour.

I would think the governments would have an easier time throwing money at Via if service levels were going to be more frequent than a token twice weekly.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

No it wasnt at all. CN was going to ( they werent really ) abandon the Newcastle sub between Nepisiguit Jct and Miramichi which would cut off the Oceans route. There are zero customers on that stretch of track. The money paid to CN was to maintain that stretch and fix the slow orders on the Pacific jct to Nelson jct stretch.

One would think the province would try to attract customers for the line.

Originally Posted by J81

The Quebec government has sunk nearly 100 million dollars into the Gaspe line in the last few years to replace the decrepit bridges with the goal of reopening the line between New Carlisle and Gaspe.

Nova Scotia has also poured money into the shortline in CB to keep it “open” in case a container port was eventually constructed in Sydney harbour.

I would think the governments would have an easier time throwing money at Via if service levels were going to be more frequent than a token twice weekly.

This right here is why I feel the Amtrak model of asking the provinces to pay for service would work.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

This right here is why I feel the Amtrak model of asking the provinces to pay for service would work.

The difference is that states in the US are willing to contribute substantial amounts including paying for whole fleets of rolling stock.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The difference is that states in the US are willing to contribute substantial amounts including paying for whole fleets of rolling stock.

Has Via ever asked for anything out of the provinces?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Has Via ever asked for anything out of the provinces?

Why does VIA have to ask? Amtrak doesn't. States who want certain intra-state services simply decide whether they want a service and who the operator is doing to be. In cases where they think Amtrak is better, it's them approaching Amtrak. If you want the Amtrak model, you should be asking why more provinces don't approach VIA.

And building tracks isn't enough. Those states in the US provide Amtrak with startup capital (which let's them buy a fleet) and per passenger subsidy which will cover operational costs. Amtrak is effectively just a contracted operator.

The only routes that Amtrak itself is responsible for is the Northeast Corridor and the long distance routes. This is actually not all that different from VIA's situation with the Corridor and its long distance routes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_routes

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why does VIA have to ask? Amtrak doesn't. States who want certain intra-state services simply decide whether they want a service and who the operator is doing to be. In cases where they think Amtrak is better, it's them approaching Amtrak. If you want the Amtrak model, you should be asking why more provinces don't approach VIA.

And building tracks isn't enough. Those states in the US provide Amtrak with startup capital (which let's them buy a fleet) and per passenger subsidy which will cover operational costs. Amtrak is effectively just a contracted operator.

The only routes that Amtrak itself is responsible for is the Northeast Corridor and the long distance routes. This is actually not all that different from VIA's situation with the Corridor and its long distance routes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_routes

Not just intra-state - the Cascades route is funded by WSDOT, despite it running into British Columbia (ordinarily). We in Vancouver get rail service to Seattle thanks in part to Washington State taxpayers - doesn’t cost a penny to BC taxpayers.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Not just intra-state - the Cascades route is funded by WSDOT, despite it running into British Columbia (ordinarily). We in Vancouver get rail service to Seattle thanks in part to Washington State taxpayers - doesn’t cost a penny to BC taxpayers.

Amtrak is responsible for funding its NEC operations and the Feds for Amtrak‘s longhaul routes (arbitrarily defined as routes over 750 miles length). Conversely, all non-NEC routes shorter than 750 miles have to be funded by the States and/or other sub-federal funding sources…

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why does VIA have to ask? Amtrak doesn't. States who want certain intra-state services simply decide whether they want a service and who the operator is doing to be. In cases where they think Amtrak is better, it's them approaching Amtrak. If you want the Amtrak model, you should be asking why more provinces don't approach VIA.

And building tracks isn't enough. Those states in the US provide Amtrak with startup capital (which let's them buy a fleet) and per passenger subsidy which will cover operational costs. Amtrak is effectively just a contracted operator.

The only routes that Amtrak itself is responsible for is the Northeast Corridor and the long distance routes. This is actually not all that different from VIA's situation with the Corridor and its long distance routes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_routes

Well, since Via has shown that it only cares about federal politics and the W-QC Corridor, why would a province want to deal with Via? Via and the politicians have done a good job at making them irrelevant. That is why Alberta is looking at the HSR between Calgary and Edmonton and regular rail between Banff and Calgary. Had Via and the politicians not pulled out like they did in the 1990s, I could see the provinces trying to make deals to get better service. If Via was shut down, outside of the Corridor, it would not likely be missed much. The same cannot be said with Amtrak.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well, since Via has shown that it only cares about federal politics and the W-QC Corridor, why would a province want to deal with Via? Via and the politicians have done a good job at making them irrelevant.

You can blame VIA all you want, but the model is exactly the same in the US. Amtrak only takes care of the Northeast Corridor and the long distance routes. And it's actually expected to recover most of the costs on the NEC. It doesn't start intrastate routes of its own initiative. It relies on state DOTs to define the service and to be provided funding. There is absolutely nothing stopping a province from doing the same with VIA.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That is why Alberta is looking at the HSR between Calgary and Edmonton and regular rail between Banff and Calgary.

If Alberta wants to go its own way, so what? It's their tax dollars. If they see value in VIA's branding, expertise and loyalty program, they can use it. If it doesn't suit them, so be it.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Had Via and the politicians not pulled out like they did in the 1990s, I could see the provinces trying to make deals to get better service. If Via was shut down, outside of the Corridor, it would not likely be missed much. The same cannot be said with Amtrak.

Amtrak wouldn't be missed that much either. Their state supported routes would be given to another contractor. There's value to the brand and scale (large fleet buys and commonality). But really, it's not like people in California would care that much if Capitol Corridor was delivered by Acme Trains instead of Amtrak. Having lived there, I assure you they care more about service than the branding and uniforms of the train operators.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You can blame VIA all you want, but the model is exactly the same in the US. VIA only takes care of the Northeast Corridor and the long distance routes. It doesn't start intrastate routes of its own initiative. It relies on state DOTs to define the service to be provided and to provide funding. There is absolutely nothing stopping a province from doing the same with VIA.

I actually do not blame Via. The more and more I learn about how we got here with Via, and how other publicly funded rail companies operate, I solely blame the politicians who use it as an easy way to cut the government's budget and look good to their base for balancing the budget.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If Alberta wants to go its own way, so what? It's their tax dollars.

I am not against it. More passenger rail is a good thing if it can be used to get from point A to point B without having to be part of some tour.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Amtrak wouldn't be missed that much either. Their state supported routes would be given together another contractor. There's value to the brand and scale (large fleet buys and commonality). But really, it's not like people in California would care that much if Capitol Corridor was delivered by Acme Trains instead of Amtrak. Having lived there, I assure you that care more about service than the branding and uniforms of who runs the trains.

When I say Via would not be missed, I do not mean the company. I mean the routes. So, if all the routes were gone, Via would not be missed much, and most of it, if not all, would not be taken by the private sector.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I actually do not blame Via. The more and more I learn about how we got here with Via, and how other publicly funded rail companies operate, I solely blame the politicians who use it as an easy way to cut the government's budget and look good to their base for balancing the budget.



I am not against it. More passenger rail is a good thing if it can be used to get from point A to point B without having to be part of some tour.



When I say Via would not be missed, I do not mean the company. I mean the routes. So, if all the routes were gone, Via would not be missed much, and most of it, if not all, would not be taken by the private sector.

Private companies are in business to make money and passenger rail is a great way to lose bucket loads of it.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J81

No it wasnt at all. CN was going to ( they werent really ) abandon the Newcastle sub between Nepisiguit Jct and Miramichi which would cut off the Oceans route. There are zero customers on that stretch of track. The money paid to CN was to maintain that stretch and fix the slow orders on the Pacific jct to Nelson jct stretch.

My reading was Via paid for improvements to the Ocean portion, while NB kicked in for the freight lines to the North and South.

https://www.railway-technology.com/news/...ervice-on-newcastle-subdivision-4266537/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I actually do not blame Via. The more and more I learn about how we got here with Via, and how other publicly funded rail companies operate, I solely blame the politicians who use it as an easy way to cut the government's budget and look good to their base for balancing the budget.

How many of these services are actually missed by anyone? Most of the cut services had low ridership. I know you really like trains, but most people are pretty indifferent.

[Vin]

Time to make this thread more exciting with some visual input:

• Video Link

VIA Rail Welcomes New Siemens Trainset (Updated)
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/via-rail-welcomes-new-siemens-trainset/

But seriously, does anyone know when all the testing will be completed, and Windsor-Quebec route using the new Siemens Charger trains start? My understanding is that it will be some time end of summer or fall this year. Any one in the know able to verify?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Private companies are in business to make money and passenger rail is a great way to lose bucket loads of it.

Which is why when people say to shut down Via and give it to private companies, I laugh at the idea.

Originally Posted by acottawa

How many of these services are actually missed by anyone? Most of the cut services had low ridership. I know you really like trains, but most people are pretty indifferent.

You are right, most are indifferent.
The politicians have done a great job to cut via enough and effectively to make it irrelevant to most Canadians.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Vin

...


But seriously, does anyone know when all the testing will be completed, and Windsor-Quebec route using the new Siemens Charger trains start? My understanding is that it will be some time end of summer or fall this year. Any one in the know able to verify?

In service before the end of this year, iirc.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In service before the end of this year, iirc.

IIRC they won't have all of them in service then. I am guessing we are going to start to see the retirement of the worst equipment as they come online.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

IIRC they won't have all of them in service then. I am guessing we are going to start to see the retirement of the worst equipment as they come online.

I think they're taking delivery of sets over a two-year period.