Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Metro-One]

I also think universities, where many of the protestors are based and encouraged, should start opening up their campuses for the homeless to tent.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I also think universities, where many of the protestors are based and encouraged, should start opening up their campuses for the homeless to tent.

Don't let mere logic and practicalities get in the way, when there are so many unoccupied penthouses available.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

.. and isn't there a vegetable garden at City Hall? It would be more sustainable.

Yes indeed, and a very nice view of the downtown skyline to boot.

Originally Posted by Architype

Don't let mere logic and practicalities get in the way, when there are so many unoccupied penthouses available.

Setting a bad precedent: tell your kid "Be a drug addict and end up on the street, after that you are set for life living in a penthouse for free." I don't see any practicality in that logic, and is basically what gets us to this point in the first place.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I also think universities, where many of the protestors are based and encouraged, should start opening up their campuses for the homeless to tent.

I think you are missing the whole point of the discussion here. Merely being sarcastic stating the City should be reaping what they sow. Allowing tent cities to get out of hand at tax-payer's neighbourhoods, so perhaps they should have the same situation applied at where the City staff works.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

I think you are missing the whole point of the discussion here. Merely being sarcastic stating the City should be reaping what they sow. Allowing tent cities to get out of hand at tax-payer's neighbourhoods, so perhaps they should have the same situation applied at where the City staff works.

I might be wrong, but I think almost all City staff have been working from home for months. And Council meetings are all virtual, and not in City Hall, so I'm not sure the Council would notice an encampment. Of course, it's the Park Board, (whose offices are in the West End), not Council, who chose not to move the campers out of Strathcona Park. They did get an injunction to clear Oppenheimer Park, eventually. The local residents who grow in the community gardens by city hall might not be happy though.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I might be wrong, but I think almost all City staff have been working from home for months. And Council meetings are all virtual, and not in City Hall, so I'm not sure the Council would notice an encampment. Of course, it's the Park Board, (whose offices are in the West End), not Council, who chose not to move the campers out of Strathcona Park. They did get an injunction to clear Oppenheimer Park, eventually. The local residents who grow in the community gardens by city hall might not be happy though.

Oppenheimer Park:

Yeah, like for how long? The camps had been around for so long at Oppenheimer Park that even Google Maps is showing it for couple of consecutive years.

July 2018:

May 2019:

September 2019:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2821765,...4MQ!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2821957,...How!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192

To date, the park still isn't opened yet. Again you are sugarcoating an inept City.

It doesn't matter if 110% of the City staff works at City Hall. By having a homeless camp there, it sends a strong statement at the kind of neglect this City is exhibiting.

[s211]

Originally Posted by rofina

City Hall seems fine to me. Lots of space. Central.

Why not?

Yay. Wait five minutes for the inevitable for-hire protest to block Broadway/Cambie, and block needed access to the hospital again.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I also think universities, where many of the protestors are based and encouraged, should start opening up their campuses for the homeless to tent.

And all those non-profits that depend on the DTES for revenue to ensure they have cozy office and hire their friends instead of more qualified people. Cannot name the charity but one has staff making in excess of 70k per year while I estimate they work no more than 25 hrs per week. It's a joke and a big reason why I tell people to blindly stop donating funds and resources. Governments should stop funding these parasites.

You also have a delusional Parks Board. John Irwin should open up his doors and and allow some of these addicts to sleep there.

[Sheba]

Leaked letter shows Vancouver mayor, MP, MLA seek federal help for homeless

Representatives from several levels of government made a joint pitch this week to Ottawa, asking the federal government to fulfill its commitment to fight Vancouver’s worsening homelessness.

The pitch was in a letter sent Monday to the federal minister responsible for housing by Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart, Vancouver-Mount Pleasant MLA Melanie Mark and Vancouver East MP Jenny Kwan. It calls on the federal government to enter into “a 50-50 cost-sharing agreement with the province to build more supportive housing and acquire new housing stock.”

The letter calls on Social Development Minister Ahmed Hussen to have the federal Liberals to take urgent action to address the homelessness crisis, stating the COVID-19 pandemic has only underscored the “heightened risks that homelessness poses to public health.”

Stewart, Mark and Kwan cite the homeless encampment in Strathcona Park, which had more than 300 tents at last count, and is in the riding represented by Mark at the provincial level and Kwan federally. Mark and Kwan represent the NDP. Stewart, an independent mayor, is a former NDP MP for Burnaby South.

“This latest encampment is only symptomatic of the chronic homeless crisis in Vancouver. That is why we believe the best solution for the homelessness crisis is permanent housing,” says the letter.

The letter has not been made public but a copy was obtained by Postmedia.

...

Last month, a Vancouver city councillor raised the encampments in Strathcona as well as other downtown neighbourhoods, in a letter to Premier John Horgan, imploring his government’s help in addressing the inter-connected issues of homelessness, mental health and addictions.

In a letter dated July 31, Vancouver Coun. Lisa Dominato made two “urgent requests” to the provincial government: to establish a municipal-provincial-federal task force on mental health and addiction, and to increase capacity at the recently announced “navigation centre”, a new facility set up to move people from the streets into more stable housing. Dominato asked the province to increase the navigation centre from 60 beds to 200.

...

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Leaked letter shows Vancouver mayor, MP, MLA seek federal help for homeless

Why is it impossible to make nuanced, balanced decisions today?

What I mean;

- I want the homeless sheltered and given care, I'm willing to pay for that, nothing is free. Increase my taxes with the money explicitly going to a fund to end this.
- I don't want the Province to spend 60 million on Downtown Hotels, which work out to $500,000 per unit of housing.

Its perfectly reasonable to want both, common sense in fact I would argue.

Its absolutely untenable and ridiculous to think we can solve this issue if we plan to spend half a million per unit of housing. If that's what local governments want - no wonder were short on resources.

What am I missing? Is this not obvious?

[logicbomb]

Giving the homeless free housing does nothing. Overheard stories of junkies causing thousands of damage each month to their modular units by stripping them of wires and fixtures. The cages put around the lightbulbs are evident of this.

Forcefully confining them until they rehab and detox should be the only objective.

[Chikinlittle]

I have two questions:

Who is making money off the addiction and mental health issues that we see in the city (which is most certainly no longer limited to the DTES)? Going up the supply chain of where the street drugs come from that ultimately cause most of this mess, where does it lead us if we were to go looking for it?

We continue to throw money at a problem with what appears to be an ineffective patchwork of disconnected actions that don't really fit together as part of any holistic plan. Or if there is a well-considered plan, what is it?

[whatnext]

Wow this sounds pretty terrifying. No wonder SFH sales in the 'burbs are rising. Why would anyone want to raise a family downtown with this going on.

Downtown Vancouver resident fears for family’s safety after drug user chases her with needle
By Amy Judd Global News
Posted August 19, 2020

A downtown Vancouver resident says she fears for her family’s safety after a disturbing incident involving a drug user on the streets.

Jane, who does not want her last name used or the location of her home revealed, said she was pushing her toddler in a stroller just before lunch on Tuesday when she saw a man injecting something into his arm.

She said he happened to look up and caught her looking at him.

“He pulled out the needle from his arm, called us a number of cuss words, and began chasing us across the street saying he was going to kill me,” she told Global News....

https://globalnews.ca/news/7287230/downtown-vancouver-safety-residents-homeless/

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Wow this sounds pretty terrifying. No wonder SFH sales in the 'burbs are rising. Why would anyone want to raise a family downtown with this going on.

Downtown Vancouver resident fears for family’s safety after drug user chases her with needle
By Amy Judd Global News
Posted August 19, 2020

A downtown Vancouver resident says she fears for her family’s safety after a disturbing incident involving a drug user on the streets.

Jane, who does not want her last name used or the location of her home revealed, said she was pushing her toddler in a stroller just before lunch on Tuesday when she saw a man injecting something into his arm.

She said he happened to look up and caught her looking at him.

“He pulled out the needle from his arm, called us a number of cuss words, and began chasing us across the street saying he was going to kill me,” she told Global News....

https://globalnews.ca/news/7287230/downtown-vancouver-safety-residents-homeless/

Chrissy Brett, spokeswoman for the tent city that has been dubbed Camp KT for Kennedy Trudeau, told Global News there is a mass crisis of synthetic drugs that are creating psychosis and excited delirium among some homeless people in the city.

“I’ve heard the prices have gone up and the supply has gone down,” she said.

“Now, people are cutting things with God knows what and it’s creating a level of psychosis I’ve never seen.”

Aren't journalists supposed to filter out nonsense pretending to be facts?

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Wow this sounds pretty terrifying. No wonder SFH sales in the 'burbs are rising. Why would anyone want to raise a family downtown with this going on.

Wait...you mean it's not 100% the fault of foreign buyers from China?

[Sheba]

I'm sure some people will hate this: Prosecutors told to prosecute only the most serious drug possession offences. Short version: "Federal prosecutors are being instructed to criminally prosecute only the most serious drug possession offences and to find alternatives outside the criminal justice system for the rest."

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Wait...you mean it's not 100% the fault of foreign buyers from China?

For whatnext it is 200%

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'm sure some people will hate this: Prosecutors told to prosecute only the most serious drug possession offences. Short version: "Federal prosecutors are being instructed to criminally prosecute only the most serious drug possession offences and to find alternatives outside the criminal justice system for the rest."

Conclusion: Hello to more homelessness, disorderliness, crime and OD deaths in the downtown areas. Very "forward thinking" indeed.

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by Vin

Conclusion: Hello to more homelessness, disorderliness, crime and OD deaths in the downtown areas. Very "forward thinking" indeed.

And is funding police and resources to patrol and rest users with substance abuse challenges and throwing them into jail going to make the problem going away?

What if all the funding we are throwing at it in all the wrong ways was used differently?

What if we viewed this as a health issue and not a criminal issue?

What if we decriminalized small possession, provided a clean supply (possibly in very specific postal codes), taking away from the profits from the true criminals who are providing the current supply, and use the resources we'd otherwise spend on managing/patrolling/arresting/incarcerating/lawyering/judging instead to help treat and improve the lives of those that are struggling?

Wouldn't that feel more humane? And hopefully more successful?

I don't know much about much on the topic, but whatever we're doing isn't working. I believe Portugal is a pretty successful example of doing something very similar to what I described here above.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

And is funding police and resources to patrol and rest users with substance abuse challenges and throwing them into jail going to make the problem going away?

What if all the funding we are throwing at it in all the wrong ways was used differently?

What if we viewed this as a health issue and not a criminal issue?

What if we decriminalized small possession, provided a clean supply (possibly in very specific postal codes), taking away from the profits from the true criminals who are providing the current supply, and use the resources we'd otherwise spend on managing/patrolling/arresting/incarcerating/lawyering/judging instead to help treat and improve the lives of those that are struggling?

Wouldn't that feel more humane? And hopefully more successful?

I don't know much about much on the topic, but whatever we're doing isn't working. I believe Portugal is a pretty successful example of doing something very similar to what I described here above.

There is merit to what you say, and you're not the first to say it, but what this doesn't address is a very specific issue.

A lot of these people are not from the region. Providing all these services will continue to draw population from across Canada in what I would expect would be increasing numbers.

Vancouver was already a draw before all this was available simply because you can survive on the streets year round - not so much in Edmonton or Winnipeg.

Add free $500,000 condos downtown, free supply of heroin, free food, free access to medical services, free cellphones, and often free alcohol, what fool wouldn't come here and live a lifestyle that many of us cant afford while working full time jobs.

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by rofina

There is merit to what you say, and you're not the first to say it, but what this doesn't address is a very specific issue.

A lot of these people are not from the region. Providing all these services will continue to draw population from across Canada in what I would expect would be increasing numbers.

Vancouver was already a draw before all this was available simply because you can survive on the streets year round - not so much in Edmonton or Winnipeg.

Add free $500,000 condos downtown, free supply of heroin, free food, free access to medical services, free cellphones, and often free alcohol, what fool wouldn't come here and live a lifestyle that many of us cant afford while working full time jobs.

That's also fair, and it doesn't help when Saskatchewan sends bus-loads of them out here from time to time. And i9t does reflect that this is truly a NATIONAL crisis, not just a local one, and requires Federal involvement, and provincial assistance to come to the table and assist with a solution.

It would appear that Vancouver is the de-facto location where we would centralize such a nationalized strategy.