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  #301  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 2:05 AM
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Developer going all in on new downtown Hamilton arena



Vrancor Group is offering to 'reinvent' Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre. Rick Zamperin/900 CHML

There appears to be a white knight for Hamilton’s downtown arena.

Vrancor Group has provided the City with a term sheet which outlines the company’s intent to “redevelop Hamilton’s entertainment and convention properties.”

The $200-million proposal says Vrancor will “fully reinvent FirstOntario Centre into a state of the art and technologically modern facility,” while not requesting operating subsidies.

The plan also calls for the expansion and modernization of the Hamilton Convention Centre by doubling its hosting capability and adding a new four-star hotel in the downtown core.

The term sheet also says the City will continue to own the arena and FirstOntario Concert Hall and that Vrancor would be the operator.

The company has been behind the construction of new hotels, commercial and residential buildings in downtown Hamilton over the last 15 years.

On Wednesday, Hamilton councillors rubber-stamped a decision to not pursue a new arena project at Limeride Mall that had been spearheaded by Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer and Cadillac Fairview.

Andlauer had offered to spend $30 million on the project that included a 6,000-seat arena and parking garage at the mall.

Key points in Vrancor Group’s term sheet:

Vrancor will not request operating subsidies for any of Hamilton’s entertainment/convention properties
The City will continue to own FirstOntario Centre and FirstOntario Concert Hall, Vrancor would operate the facilities through a long-term licensing arrangement
Vrancor will not ask the City to borrow any money, or draw upon any reserves to contribute towards the development
A new four-star hotel will be constructed in downtown Hamilton to serve an expanded Hamilton Convention Centre
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  #302  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 2:17 AM
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^Exactly what I would do if I was a rich local developer. We are lucky to have Vranich.


Even tho there's nothing wrong with Copps. Just do the maintenance.
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  #303  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 3:09 AM
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I figured this article would be worth quoting again....

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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Making Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre 'NHL-ready' would cost $250M
City staff recommend against large-scale renovation to the city's signature events venue

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...250m-1.4046406

A new study pegs the cost of renovating the FirstOntario Centre to an "NHL-ready" point at $252 million, but city staff say there are other much more urgent budget issues to deal with instead.

The renovation one of two options outlined in a new study of the city's signature hockey and events venue, scheduled to be presented to city councillors next Wednesday.

That NHL-ready option consists of a "complete transformation" of the 32-year-old, 17,000-seat building complex.

The other option costs $68 million and would be a "partial upgrade" and add modern boxes and concessions to the lower bowl.

City staff say they don't recommend pursuing either option.

"Based on the cost of the proposed renovations and the uncertainty of whether Hamilton could attract a tenant that could fully utilize a modern 18,000 seat arena, staff recommends that the city does not move forward with either renovation option at this point in time," a report from city finance staff states.

That recommendation is likely to go over well with some councillors.

Before even seeing the report, Coun. Sam Merulla said earlier this month the issue "shouldn't even be on the back burner."

"You know that drawer at the bottom of the stove that nobody uses? That's where it belongs."

Currently the city sets aside $800,000 a year for upgrades to the arena, the convention centre and the concert hall — "prioritizing capital needs that relate to health and safety and legislative compliance." It also has set aside another $100,000 for the concert hall for the next four years.

Rejecting either or both of these renovation options doesn't change that, the report states.

The Canadian Hockey League rejected Hamilton's recent Memorial Cup bid this year partly because of problems with the arena.


This re-imagination of the exterior of First Ontario Centre that is part of a consultants report on how to upgrade the aging arena. (BBB Architects)
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  #304  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 3:10 AM
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$200 million is just about right to renovate First Ontario into a modern state of the art arena.

The city should just dot the i's and cross the t's already with Vrancor. He has a good record.
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  #305  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 5:19 AM
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So he plans to renovate it while keeping it the same size?
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  #306  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
$200 million is just about right to renovate First Ontario into a modern state of the art arena.

The city should just dot the i's and cross the t's already with Vrancor. He has a good record.
That $200 million is also "doubling the convention centre hosting capability", and building a hotel. I'm curious what the actual plan for the arena is.
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  #307  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 2:05 PM
HamiltonBoyInToronto HamiltonBoyInToronto is offline
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Sounds like someone who understands good business and has the city and its core at the top of his list... I hope this guy prospers and the city honours him in some way ... This is a win win win for everyone involved ... especially the citizens of Hamilton....
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  #308  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 3:06 PM
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New arena proposals land in Hamilton council’s lap, part of major venue overhaul plans
Two local development groups are suggesting pumping private sector money into renovating FirstOntario Centre.

https://www.thespec.com/opinion-stor...verhaul-plans/

Forget for a moment recent proposals for a new arena at Lime Ridge Mall or a 10,000-seater downtown to replace the aging FirstOntario Centre.

Two local development groups are bringing an entirely different idea to the table for city council's consideration.

And the best part is, neither appears to involve significant tax dollars.

In completely separate proposals, the developers are suggesting pumping private sector money into renovating FirstOntario Centre.

Both groups are suggesting transforming the city-owned facility into a state-of-the-art venue which would utilize a sectioned-off lower bowl for smaller events but be capable of expanding to its full 17,000 seat capacity for larger shows.

But retrofitting the existing arena forms only part of the two competing proposals. Both also include redeveloping the Hamilton Convention Centre and upgrades to the FirstOntario Centre concert hall.

One of the proponents is the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group, the consortium led by the Carmen's Group which now includes Paletta International, LIUNA Pension Fund, Fengate Capital, Meridian Credit Union and Jetport Inc.

The other proponent is the Vrancor Group, Darko Vranich's firm, one of the largest development companies in Hamilton.

Both proponents recently submitted high-level, non-binding "term sheets" to the city's economic development department, setting out conditions for negotiating an agreement.

City staff is slated to bring council up to speed on the proposals at a Feb. 5 committee meeting, most of which is expected to take place behind closed doors.

"Our partners are certainly motivated and big on Hamilton so there's certainly no shortage of interest in deploying the capital for the right projects," says Carmen's CEO PJ Mercanti, speaking on behalf of the Urban Precinct Group.

For his part, consultant Mario Frankovich, who is advising Vranich, calls the Vrancor proposal a "reinvention" of the three city-owned facilities.

Frankovich says Vrancor has been working on the proposal since June and is ready to explore what council is looking for in a deal.

There are clearly similarities between the proposals, but also differences.

First some similarities.

Both proposals involve hundreds of millions of private sector dollars but mainly in-kind contributions from the city.

The developers are using Coun. Sam Merulla's motion of a few years ago as a jumping off point. Approved by council, the motion called for exploring the sale or lease of the city's downtown entertainment and hospitality venues to spark redevelopment of the aging facilities, end taxpayer subsidies and generate new property taxes.

Frankovich says the essence of the Vrancor offer is to privately fund the redevelopment of the arena, convention centre and concert hall. The city would retain ownership while Vrancor operated the arena and concert hall.

"We will not be looking for any ongoing subsidies and will not be asking the city to either borrow money or draw on reserves to participate in that."

For its part, the Urban Precinct group is looking to the city to bring to the table the land the sites sit on and regulatory authority, not municipal cash.

Besides sharing the same vision of an expandable arena both groups are keen to connect with Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer — if, in fact, he's ready to move beyond his proposal to build an arena at Lime Ridge Mall now that council has rejected the idea of spending $96 million on the plan.

In addition, they also agree that the concert hall requires some upgrades but not a major overhaul.

Now some differences.

The Urban Precinct Group hopes to build a new convention centre at the site of the Hamilton City Centre and use the existing site for a new hotel, residential and commercial complex.

Hamilton City Centre owner Darryl Firsten has signed a letter of intent with the group to explore the concept.

"We think it's a great idea. If the money is there and we can make it fit our site, we'd love to be part of it," said Firsten, who's planning a $780 million project with five 28-storey towers for the 3.4 acre site.

On the other hand, Vrancor wants to double the capacity of the Hamilton Convention Centre on its existing site and construct a new hotel in the core to serve it.

Clearly we're at the very early stages of both proposals. Merulla says he expects council will get the "lay of the land" as far as what's in it for all parties at the Feb. 5 meeting.

But the key goal for him remains the same: for any proposal to go forward, it must save the city facility capital and operating dollars, and generate new revenue.

Last edited by SteelTown; Jan 24, 2020 at 3:18 PM.
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  #309  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 3:26 PM
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Just an FYI, Jetport Inc is well was owned by Ron Joyce. I'm guessing his son now owns it now, Steven Joyce.
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  #310  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 4:30 PM
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Awesome - privately funded is the way to go. Hope one of them pulls through!
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  #311  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 9:18 PM
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Interesting choices here, on one hand you have Vrancor, who basically gets things done without fanfare, has hospitality experience and appears to have deep pockets, while on the other hand the consortium looks to have a whole bunch of advocates / captains at the wheel or a very connected ship. Almost wish the proposals were reversed, as I think a singular leadership effort is much easier to steer, but really like the idea of having hotel replace the EFB and building new conference centre as part of Hamilton City Centre rebuild.
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  #312  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 10:24 PM
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Damn, Vrancor just went into beast mode. Given their hospitality experience and proven track record with getting projects done in the last decade, I think the city would be stupid not to work with them on this.
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  #313  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 10:45 PM
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Imagine if these two developers could work together and get like $500m invested downtown. That would be huge.
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  #314  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 11:02 PM
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On its face, both of these seem like way better deals than Limeridge, both way better deals for the City in terms of City building, but also in terms of reducing the taxpayer burden. Also nice to see theyre willing to work with Andlaeur who may still be willing to throw in some money. And best part, city doesnt need to spend $60m on a parking garage in a mall parking lot, while still keeping a venue larger than 10k.

This is what needed to happen. A complete overhaul of entertainment facilities, especially increasing the size of the convention centre. It was so short sighted for some to think the City were idiots for walking away from the terrible limeridge deal.
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  #315  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 11:23 PM
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I wonder what Andlauer is going to think of all this. Doesn't he have a pretty sweetheart deal at FOC now? What are the odds that will remain under a private company trying to make money on the operations of the arena? And it's still a 17,000 seat building, no matter what kind of different system they put in place to close off the upper level. If he was willing to put $30 million on the table at Limeridge, I wonder if he still would with another city nearby to get the kind of building he wants.
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  #316  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2020, 4:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
I wonder what Andlauer is going to think of all this. Doesn't he have a pretty sweetheart deal at FOC now? What are the odds that will remain under a private company trying to make money on the operations of the arena? And it's still a 17,000 seat building, no matter what kind of different system they put in place to close off the upper level. If he was willing to put $30 million on the table at Limeridge, I wonder if he still would with another city nearby to get the kind of building he wants.
A private company (core entertainment) already runs the arena. Having a new private company come in to run things wouldnt change much. I doubt there are any cities nearby who would put up another $60m to get an arena built.
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  #317  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2020, 5:49 AM
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Whatever they do to renovate FOC, I really hope they put some money aside for the exterior. It's such an eye-sore and is pretty embarrassing. While a little boxy, I'd still love to have it look like the render a few posts up.
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  #318  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2020, 8:22 AM
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A private company (core entertainment) already runs the arena. Having a new private company come in to run things wouldnt change much. I doubt there are any cities nearby who would put up another $60m to get an arena built.
Isn't the city currently spending money to operate FOC? I don't remember the numbers from some report last summer or fall, but it seemed like while the Bulldogs were the largest draw, they paid very little, if any rent to play there. These proposals being presented now sound like these companies, as part of their deal to spend so much money to upgrade the facilities, want to manage them and since they won't ask the city for an annual subsidy like they pay now, obviously they are going to be targeting their main attendance draw (and lowest revenue generator) to pony up some cash. Didn't Andlauer also recently float the idea of if the Limeridge deal fell through, he would entertain options to move the team, with Burlington being floated once again?
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  #319  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2020, 3:51 PM
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Isn't the city currently spending money to operate FOC? I don't remember the numbers from some report last summer or fall, but it seemed like while the Bulldogs were the largest draw, they paid very little, if any rent to play there. These proposals being presented now sound like these companies, as part of their deal to spend so much money to upgrade the facilities, want to manage them and since they won't ask the city for an annual subsidy like they pay now, obviously they are going to be targeting their main attendance draw (and lowest revenue generator) to pony up some cash. Didn't Andlauer also recently float the idea of if the Limeridge deal fell through, he would entertain options to move the team, with Burlington being floated once again?
Yes the new operators may ask for increased rent, but they cant ask for too much or else they will be left without a main tennant.

With regards to Burlington, yes he said that. Doesnt seem like Burlington has any appetite to spend public dollars on an arena though. Especially with the mayor now being so against the idea of a publically funded ticats stadium as a Councillor 9 years ago. So doubt that goes anywhere. Probably just a negotiating tactic to leverage against Hamilton during the Limeridge debate. But with two new deep pocketed players, Andlaeur lost a lot of leverage.

Some of those comments from 2011

“It’s the costs,” she said, adding residents are concerned about the possible operating costs, capital costs and the lost opportunity cost of losing 10 acres of prime commercial land for a stadium use.

Meed Ward said no one is clamouring for a stadium. Burlingtonians want council to finish its capital projects and keep taxes low.


https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2...ngton-stadium/
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  #320  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2020, 5:15 PM
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The thing about FOC's current main tenant is that anything else they book does far better: 85% better attendance for non-sport bookings was E&Y's finding, and that appears to be just turnstile numbers, so once you factor in the free ticket bloat it's possibly even more stark. Losing the Bulldogs would mean that calendar space would be freed up for other bookings. If venue operators lost the OHL tenant and its 34 game days and managed to book an additional 18-20 non-sport dates a year, they would basically be where they are now, or possibly in a better space.

As far as the Burlington scenario goes, the notion of CF & Andlauer partnering on an arena at Burlington Centre is a head-scratcher. Andlauer may live in Burlington but CF doesn't own Burlington Centre.
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