Sen̓áḵw (Squamish Nation) | 11 Towers | 171m | 58fl | 4M sqft | U/C

[logan5]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Its basic math according to the article 6000 units in 11 towers and small floor plate so the area can preserve parks.

Size of units does not stop breeding and families. I used to have a handyman Company and many clients were raising families in 1 bedroom units. Just the fact there is 6000 units all at once is huge in that area when the current schools are full

What size are the floor plates? You think pricey Kits is where poor families are going to have a family in a 1 bedroom unit.The West End has has many 1000's of 1 bedroom units, so are they fullof families and are they building schools for all these children. I don't see many children in the West End, or any other apartment neighbourhood.

If there were 10 units per floor, that would mean an average tower height of 54 floors. Where did you hear it's 10 units per floor?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

What size are the floor plates? You think pricey Kits is where poor families are going to have a family in a 1 bedroom unit.The West End has has many 1000's of 1 bedroom units, so are they fullof families and are they building schools for all these children. I don't see many children in the West End, or any other apartment neighbourhood.

Just because you don't see kids doesn't mean they don't exist.

Schools are massively oversubscribed downtown and all around False Creek. Even after building Crosstown elementary.

[logan5]

The under 19 population in the West End is 5.4%. Of the 19 and under population, there are certainly many that are in at least a 2 bedroom unit, or greater. There's no data, but it is likely very few children live with their parents in a 1 bedroom apartment. Why would Kits be any different.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

The under 19 population in the West End is 5.4%. Of the 19 and under population, there are certainly many that are in at least a 2 bedroom unit, or greater. There's no data, but it is likely very few children live with their parents in a 1 bedroom apartment. Why would Kits be any different.

Sorry thought you were referring to school-aged children in general.

There's no evidence to suggest they live in 1 bedroom condos with 1 or more parents, nor is there any to suggest this development will be 100% 500sf condos.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Its basic math according to the article 6000 units in 11 towers and small floor plate so the area can preserve parks.

Schools aside, does the seawall really need another park? If the south end is too tired to walk to Vanier, there's Creekside right in front of them.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by logan5

What size are the floor plates? You think pricey Kits is where poor families are going to have a family in a 1 bedroom unit.The West End has has many 1000's of 1 bedroom units, so are they fullof families and are they building schools for all these children. I don't see many children in the West End, or any other apartment neighbourhood.

If there were 10 units per floor, that would mean an average tower height of 54 floors. Where did you hear it's 10 units per floor?

This will be the new normal for Vancouver living. Otherwise live in Mission or Chilliwack.

11 buildings being squeezed on a very irregular parcel of land with a bridge disecting the property. In an interview on CKNW the spokesperson made a comment that upwards of 80% of the land will be future greenspace. So that gives 2 acres 90 square feet roughly so the you end up with roughly 10 or so units per floor if a square building.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Schools aside, does the seawall really need another park? If the south end is too tired to walk to Vanier, there's Creekside right in front of them.

I don't think this proposal really includes any parks. The shape is quite small and weirdly shaped.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Let's check the layout again...

(layout)

... you're right, those aren't parks, those are front yards.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's check the layout again...

(layout)

... you're right, those aren't parks, those are front yards.

first time I saw the layout. So according to that rendering you have 3 buildings that will be dense. Hope they use better elevators than Woodwards.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Westbased

This is a world class site

Once someone begins to spout "world class", take it with a grain of salt. It's more aspirational than reality.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nope again.

Read deeper on the settlement:

..The details of what the government of Canada is proposing as asettlement of our 1977 Omnibus Trust Action are contained in a document called the "Settlement Agreement". This Agreement is between the government of Canada and the Squamish Nation.

If the Settlement is accepted by the Squamish Nation membership, it would put an end to the Kitsilano court case, the Bouillon court case and
the remaining claims in the 1977 Omnibus Trust Action. All of these claims were described in Bulletin No. 7 that was sent to membership.
The best way to understand what is in the Settlement Agreement is to look at what the Squamish Nation gets in it and what the government of
Canada gets.

What the Squamish Nation Gets
If membership approves the Settlement Agreement, the Trust Agreement and the Surrender, the Squamish Nation will get $92.5 million.
This money is paid as compensation for all of the remaining claims left in
the 1977 Omnibus Trust Action. This includes the Kitsilano and Bouillon case...

..What the Government of Canada Gets
If the Settlement is approved, the government of Canada will get an end to the claims against it contained in the 1977 Omnibus Trust Action. The end to this lawsuit is provided to the government by the Squamish Nation in what is called a "Release". This is an assurance that theSquamish Nation will end its court case once and for all.

The government of Canada will also get assurances from the Squamish Nation that the Nation will no longer claim that the lands that remain as
part of the lawsuit are still Squamish Nation Reserve lands. The lands in
question are:
> the Kitsilano Reserve lands, except for the railway area,
> the Bouillon lands north of Capilano IR5,
> all or parts of six former Reserves in the Squamish Valley,
> the lands under the railway lines that run through Mission IR1,
Seymour IR2 and Capilano IR5,
> the lands under Third Street as it passes through Mission IR1.
Maps of all of these lands were provided in Bulletin No. 7...


https://www.squamish.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bull9.pdf

All of which are reserve claims, not traditional land claims.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's check the layout again...

(layout)

... you're right, those aren't parks, those are front yards.

Lol, that reminds me of one such lawn TOL calls a ‘park’. Behold: East Munday Park, the most pathetic park in existence.
90 Ave, Langley City, BC V1M 4C9
https://goo.gl/maps/EoBSWjsaPUdGkkdB8

[fredinno]

Regarding the excess CPR lands, though:
I just got an email about them from the COV.

Hello,

You are receiving this email because you previously signed up to receive updates on the False Creek South planning program.

On behalf of the Arbutus Greenway planning process, this notice contains information about an upcoming open house event on a proposed change to the False Creek Official Development Plan (ODP). The proposal is to create a new Area within the ODP that would allow for future development of a 6-storey rental residential building with local-serving commercial-retail on the ground floor at the subject location.

Background and Context – CPR Option Lands

In 2016, the City purchased the Arbutus rail corridor from Canadian Pacific Railway (“CPR”) for the purpose of creating the Arbutus Greenway. The purchase included seven parcels, located between West 1st Avenue and West 5th Avenue (referred to as the “Option Lands”) that are not required for the greenway. The purchase agreement contractually obligates the City to complete planning work to allow development on the Option Lands.

In September 2018, Council approved an amendment to the Arbutus Corridor Official Development Plan (ODP) to remove lands not required for greenway purposes. Prior to this ODP amendment, the Option Lands could only be used for the purpose of transportation or greenways. This amendment reverted the Option Lands sites between West 2nd Avenue and West 5th Avenue back to their original zoning (C-2B & IC-1).

In order to conclude planning work for the Option Lands, further planning is needed for the triangle shaped site at West 2nd and Fir St. This site is currently included within the False Creek ODP area but is identified for transportation use only. The ODP has no direction for redevelopment of the site.

The City is proposing to amend the False Creek ODP to change the permitted use of the site from transportation to rental housing, allowing for a 6-storey rental residential building with local-serving commercial-retail on the ground floor.

[Tetsuo]

Right now Henry Hudson is the French Immersion catchment for all of downtown, which contributes to it being full, prior to the addition of the program HH was actually under-filled I believe.

I'm sure with the opening of a school at Coal Harbour and a new Nelson Park, could relieve Henry Hudson pressure if French Immersion is added.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by fredinno

All of which are reserve claims, not traditional land claims...

I'm still not sure where you're getting that from as the link you provided did not state that. The closest thing I can find to definitive is this:

The Squamish band in British Columbia has voted overwhelmingly in favour of a $92.5-million land-claims settlement intended to heal festering wounds from one of the darker moments in the province's history.

In one of the first agreements with a native band over land in the heart of Vancouver, the Squamish have abandoned their claim to a piece of prime Vancouver real estate -- known as Kitsilano Point -- and several other sites in the southwest corner of British Columbia.

The list of sites also includes 494 hectares north of Vancouver covered almost entirely by the town of Squamish, and 30 hectares in North Vancouver now occupied by privately owned houses, apartments and a park.

The Squamish said they are particularly pleased to put the history of Kitsilano Point behind them...

...The $92.5-million agreement is an out-of-court settlement of a case that combined the band's land claims with a demand for compensation for historical mistreatment. The case was launched in 1977. Along with other allegations in the court case, the Squamish band charged the federal government with failure to protect their people from illegal seizure of their lands, from fraud and coercion....

...In return, the federal government has received assurances the Squamish Nation will no longer claim the lands and they will not sue the government in relation to these lands. Some of the land is also claimed by the Musqueam and Burrard bands, and the Squamish will also have to pay out any settlement if the court decides that either band is the rightful owner....

....The current settlement is unrelated to the controversial treaty negotiations in B.C. or the negotiations process that lead to the Nisga'a treaty. The Squamish Nation continues to pursue a much larger land claim with the federal and provincial government over different land.(bold mine)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat...es-claim-for-925-million/article1041312/

So land claims are being pursued in other areas but Kits Point is settled.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Regarding the excess CPR lands, though:
I just got an email about them from the COV.

The notice posted by Fredinno references the triangle shaped piece of land which is currently zoned for transportation.

In order to conclude planning work for the Option Lands, further planning is needed for the triangle shaped site at West 2nd and Fir St. This site is currently included within the False Creek ODP area but is identified for transportation use only. The ODP has no direction for redevelopment of the site.

That's the site at the top of this map.
I've drawn on the map the on-street and Options Lands routings of a potential streetcar line to Senakw.
Using the Options Lands triangular site for a streetcar RoW would provide a more efficient system
- no additional intersection to navigate with cars and no slowing down to a crawl for a 90 degree turn.

Conceivably, they could preserve an RoW across the north side of the triangular piece of land while allowing some development on the corner.


https://council.vancouver.ca/20180724/documents/p4.pdf

The relationship of the triangular site to Senakw is shown in this map (Senakw is in gray).


https://council.vancouver.ca/20180724/documents/p4.pdf

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'm still not sure where you're getting that from as the link you provided did not state that. The closest thing I can find to definitive is this:

The Squamish band in British Columbia has voted overwhelmingly in favour of a $92.5-million land-claims settlement intended to heal festering wounds from one of the darker moments in the province's history.

In one of the first agreements with a native band over land in the heart of Vancouver, the Squamish have abandoned their claim to a piece of prime Vancouver real estate -- known as Kitsilano Point -- and several other sites in the southwest corner of British Columbia.

The list of sites also includes 494 hectares north of Vancouver covered almost entirely by the town of Squamish, and 30 hectares in North Vancouver now occupied by privately owned houses, apartments and a park.

The Squamish said they are particularly pleased to put the history of Kitsilano Point behind them...

...The $92.5-million agreement is an out-of-court settlement of a case that combined the band's land claims with a demand for compensation for historical mistreatment. The case was launched in 1977. Along with other allegations in the court case, the Squamish band charged the federal government with failure to protect their people from illegal seizure of their lands, from fraud and coercion....

...In return, the federal government has received assurances the Squamish Nation will no longer claim the lands and they will not sue the government in relation to these lands. Some of the land is also claimed by the Musqueam and Burrard bands, and the Squamish will also have to pay out any settlement if the court decides that either band is the rightful owner....

....The current settlement is unrelated to the controversial treaty negotiations in B.C. or the negotiations process that lead to the Nisga'a treaty. The Squamish Nation continues to pursue a much larger land claim with the federal and provincial government over different land.(bold mine)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat...es-claim-for-925-million/article1041312/

So land claims are being pursued in other areas but Kits Point is settled.

I realize that. But land claims in other areas could be compensated for with land in Kits/Kits Point...I think.

Originally Posted by officedweller

The notice posted by Fredinno references the triangle shaped piece of land which is currently zoned for transportation.



That's the site at the top of this map.
I've drawn on the map the on-street and Options Lands routings of a potential streetcar line to Senakw.
Using the Options Lands triangular site for a streetcar RoW would provide a more efficient system
- no additional intersection to navigate with cars and no slowing down to a crawl for a 90 degree turn.

Conceivably, they could preserve an RoW across the north side of the triangular piece of land while allowing some development on the corner.


https://council.vancouver.ca/20180724/documents/p4.pdf

The relationship of the triangular site to Senakw is shown in this map (Senakw is in gray).


https://council.vancouver.ca/20180724/documents/p4.pdf

My understanding is that the rail line connecting to the Reserve east-west weren’t part of the sell off and rezoning.
A North-South connection could be made by going through the Granville Loops.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I realize that. But land claims in other areas could be compensated for with land in Kits/Kits Point...I think.....

Argh, NO!

The Kits Point issue is settled in terms of the Squamish. Finished, finito, they won't get any more of it.

That's why the settlement includes a clause that if a future court case finds the Musqueam are entitled to some compensation for Kits Point, the Squamish have to pay it out of the money they were given.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

A North-South connection could be made by going through the Granville Loops.

Unless we close Anderson, that route's probably going to be more trouble than it's worth.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by fredinno

My understanding is that the rail line connecting to the Reserve east-west weren’t part of the sell off and rezoning.
A North-South connection could be made by going through the Granville Loops.

Yes, at that time, but with Senakw's larger scope now,
it makes sense now to rethink the previous plan,
especially since extending the streetcar to Senakw is now being considered more than it was before.

[Jougho]

There is an article about the project in Archinect. Nothing new, but the comments are priceless.

https://archinect.com/news/article/15017...&utm_term=0_8f7bd1b167-f99c82e9d1-620703