Sen̓áḵw (Squamish Nation) | 11 Towers | 171m | 58fl | 4M sqft | U/C

[logan5]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Metro Vancouver First Nations 'buying their own land back': Thousands more housing units ready to break ground

Developers are increasingly looking to First Nations land as a way around municipal bureaucracy

RANDY SHORE Updated: November 7, 2019

First Nations are poised to become the next real estate development power-brokers in Metro Vancouver, with billions of dollars worth of real estate on and off reserves at their disposal.

Westbank Corp., Polygon, Aquilini and Darwin Properties all have partnerships with local First Nations to build thousands of units of housing and commercial space in Vancouver, Burnaby and West Vancouver.

The original estimate for the Jericho Lands was for 10 000 residents. I think it will be much much higher than that.

“First Nations have first right of refusal when the provincial or federal government disposes of land and they are actively making those deals,” said Indigenous planner Ginger Gosnell-Myers, formerly with the City of Vancouver.

“The nations are going to buy everything, they are buying their own land back and they will develop it so that they have income security,” she said.

MST Development Corp. — a land development firm jointly owned by the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh First Nations — was ranked No. 1 on Vancouver Magazine’s Power 50 list this week. The partnership is “poised to reshape the city, with a mixture of market and social housing, as well as some much-needed community contributions,” according to VanMag.

MST owns 65 hectares worth more than $2 billion, including 21 hectares at Jericho and eight hectares at 33rd Avenue and Heather Street on the west side of Vancouver.

MST recently bought a parcel in West Vancouver and the Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh have a partnership with Aquilini Development and Construction on 16 hectares near Canada Way and Willingdon Avenue in Burnaby.

“People are still scratching their heads and rubbing their eyes wondering what it means,” said Gosnell-Myers, who is about to start a three-year fellowship with Simon Fraser University focusing on decolonization and urban Indigenous planning.

...

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...more-housing-units-ready-to-break-ground

Yeah, the Jericho site is much larger than this. The expectation now will be for this type of density on all First Nation lands.

The expectation was that 10 000 people would reside on the Jericho lands. I think that number will be much much higher.

[djmk]

how do you pronounce Sen̓áḵw? w hat do i do with the w?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by misher

Yes but the Broadway plan contains a lot of support for many more social housing developments. And various councilors (not just Swanson) as well as city staff have dropped hints that much more will be coming when Broadway is developed. The DTES didn’t startout the way it is either. But we’re forcing every old wooden loweise on most of the residential land along Broadway to stay which means that eventually they’ll fall apart as the current renters refuse to move due to rent control while the owner refuses to perform maintenance and improvements due to shrinking profits and little incentive. Basically a repeat of the Sahota situation across a decent chunk of the city.

You're mixing up the Interim Plan with the yet-to-be-released Plan, again. Market rentals attract $100k folks.

Stretching housing for the City's median income along 5.5 km.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

Yeah, the Jericho site is much larger than this. The expectation now will be for this type of density on all First Nation lands.

The expectation was that 10 000 people would reside on the Jericho lands. I think that number will be much much higher.

I don't think they will jam the same density levels, the Burrard land is a very specific shape.

Jericho will be ambitious for that area, no doubt.

[Migrant_Coconut]

So long as Jericho gets a Cineplex, I'm happy.

Originally Posted by misher

But we’re forcing every old wooden loweise on most of the residential land along Broadway to stay...

Source? We're getting plenty of multi-income apartment proposals like 2538 Birch and the Canada Earth Tower, and there's no heritage status for the lowrises.

Originally Posted by djmk

how do you pronounce Sen̓áḵw? w hat do i do with the w?

Phlegm - it's more like Senak'h.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think they will jam the same density levels, the Burrard land is a very specific shape.

Jericho will be ambitious for that area, no doubt.

No I wouldn't expect that exact density to be carried out over a larger area like that, but still, I think the density in the Jericho Lands will be much higher than expected, just as we've seen here with the Burrard Bridge lands.

I think the City loves the opportunity for huge amounts rental units to come online.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

No I wouldn't expect that exact density to be carried out over a larger area like that, but still, I think the density in the Jericho Lands will be much higher than expected, just as we've seen here with the Burrard Bridge lands.

I think the City loves the opportunity for huge amounts rental units to come online.

Yes it does allow certain elements of the city to be ignored (because it's First Nations) while the city benefits from density in the areas that need it.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Pretty sure logan means the posters who're predicting that either Kitsilano or Squamish-Burrard is or will turn into a slum after this. Love or hate the towers, that's a ridiculous thing to type.

In some ways this sort of high density rental in what is kind of the middle of nowhere (right now), downtown is going to eventually expand into this area, it kind of resembles the old Modernist mid-century high-rise Social Housing projects.

It's a bit superficial, but still. Also: from the reddit thread:
It's at least clear that SSP isn't the only place who believes the area will turn into slums (either Kits or the towers)

It’s honestly a genius plan, screw paying property taxes, development fees, requirements to include social housing or negotiating with the city.

Just partner with First Nations and go around the government. No one is going to say no to the FNs.

Eventually all of Vancouver will be towering new FN developments surrounded by the slums of whatever our city refused to upzone.

Maybe motivating the city to be more small business and development friendly is a good thing.

I saw an empty business location get leased by a pizza shop that took over a year-and-a-half to get in there up and running. No businessman is going to willingly float a year-and-a-half of lease payments on a business that isn't opened yet unless they're forced to by the bureaucracy.

I agree no regulations is a little bit too "wild west" for my taste but the Vancouver bureaucracy is definitely overboard with their red tape and general pointless obstruction.

Also, a lot of people in the Vancouver Sun article seem to be advocating or suggesting the city shut off sewage, transportation, and water (all of which are under Metro Van control, so LOL at that- though Tswaseen did build its own sewage plant at Delta's insistence https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tsawwassen-first-nation-sewage-treatment-plant), and not providing any community centers/schools to service Native reserves (because they aren't following municipal regulations (pretty sure that's overall a good thing, unless you're a Kits NIMBY) and don't have to pay property taxes to CoV.) Does FN pay into Metro Van levies? I think they would, but I can't find much on that.

I guess the latter makes some sense. As long as Vancouver provides enough land in the area to make having its own School Board and community centers economical and viable. That should be fair, right?


Note that the Jericho Lands site is actually held by a shell company under partial ownership of the FN Bands (the other party is the Feds). Also, Pt. Grey would probably lose their collective minds if the area got anything above 5 stories. So I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If they do... at least I can have fun watching rich old people complain that they shouldn't have their neighbourhoods destroyed because they're the "Creme De La Creme" again.

[rickvug]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Better if it could continue up the hill to Arbutus Skytrain station somehow. A great link for the people in the new development.

That is the whole point and the genius of building a short, very high value line from Science World to Senakw. It will ratchet up political pressure to extend the line down the Arbutus corridor as well as Downtown to Waterfront Station. Building this whole line in one go would be too expensive to work politically. However, if you build the first piece, ideally mostly funded through CACs on surrounding up-zoned lands, then the rest becomes much easier. Once Broadway to UBC is approved I bet a streetcar line will become Vancouver's #1 transportation priority.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Note that the Jericho Lands site is actually held by a shell company under partial ownership of the FN Bands (the other party is the Feds). Also, Pt. Grey would probably lose their collective minds if the area got anything above 5 stories. So I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If they do... at least I can have fun watching rich old people complain that they shouldn't have their neighbourhoods destroyed because they're the "Creme De La Creme" again.

Huh - does City Hall get to veto a Jericho plan? Or would Ottawa intervene like Victoria did for Parq and PavCo?

[misher]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

You're mixing up the Interim Plan with the yet-to-be-released Plan, again. Market rentals attract $100k folks.

Stretching housing for the City's median income along 5.5 km.

Ongoing Broadway Planning process which includes exploring opportunities to enable more social, market and below-market rental housing close to transit and amenities

1.Creating 72,000 housing units over the next 10 years to shift to the “right supply” of housing affordable to local incomes
2. Prioritizing the creation of rental housing to meet the greatest need. Two-thirds of new homes will be rental, with 20,000 purpose-built market rental units over the next 10 years
3. Seeking to retain housing diversity, with nearly 50% of homes for households earning less than $80,000 per year

https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/q3-ho...-for-stronger-focus-on-rental-units.aspx

I assume they are keeping downtown+Squamish lands for the $100k folks and using Broadway as the dumping ground for social housing and below 80k rentals. The stuff going up downtown and in Squamish will be the 100k plus stuff so the only hope the city will have of maintaining its proportionate goals will be to decimate Broadway.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by misher

https://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/q3-ho...-for-stronger-focus-on-rental-units.aspx

I assume they are keeping downtown+Squamish lands for the $100k folks and using Broadway as the dumping ground for social housing and below 80k rentals. The stuff going up downtown and in Squamish will be the 100k plus stuff so the only hope the city will have of maintaining its proportionate goals will be to decimate Broadway.

Again, I don't see how encouraging homes across the City for those of the median income is bad. The City doesn't control rental rates in this development.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Racism. I don't see any other explanation.

Racism? Oh come now.

I gave you two good reasons right off the bat-the two elementary schools in the area are full. Is the VSB supposed to pay to expand them while receiving no revenue? Parking-Gillespie is knowingly misleading people insinuating that renters and buyers at this price won't own many vehicles. Given that's a charade let's be honest, where are they going to park?

And speaking of parks, what about green space? Sure Vanier Park is right next door, is the Band going to pay for improvements? Will Bard on the Beach face flack from new residents complaining about noise?

The article quoted by Sponge G about FN and developers is bang on - developers see this as a way to circumvent all the city's requirements while at the same time enjoying what the city provides.

[WarrenC12]

If they want to use city services (which of course they will), they'll pay into city coffers? Why is that so hard to understand?

Likely the FN will collect property taxes from any purchased or long term leases, and enter into larger contractual arrangements with Metro Vancouver and CoV for services, including schools, and so on.

I live in OV and we haven't had our promised elementary school built. I'm paying my damn taxes, not like it seems to make a damn difference!

What about the businesses that set up just outside of FN lands and start to generate a ton of revenue from people living in this development for non-FN levels of government. It's your complaint in reverse! See how silly it seems?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If they want to use city services (which of course they will), they'll pay into city coffers? Why is that so hard to understand?

Likely the FN will collect property taxes from any purchased or long term leases, and enter into larger contractual arrangements with Metro Vancouver and CoV for services, including schools, and so on.

I live in OV and we haven't had our promised elementary school built. I'm paying my damn taxes, not like it seems to make a damn difference!

What about the businesses that set up just outside of FN lands and start to generate a ton of revenue from people living in this development for non-FN levels of government. It's your complaint in reverse! See how silly it seems?

I don't see it as silly. The Tsawassen built their own treatment plant because they couldn't agree with Delta. Who's to say such things won't happen here?

Where is the road connection going to be for this? All the traffic out on Pennyfarthing Drive? Or through the narrow streets of Kits Point? Speaking of Pennyfarthing, I've noted that Harbour Cove has 300 units, one vehicle space for each unit, and they're pretty much full.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

So long as Jericho gets a Cineplex, I'm happy.



Source? We're getting plenty of multi-income apartment proposals like 2538 Birch and the Canada Earth Tower, and there's no heritage status for the lowrises.

Anything RM-3 isn't changing to my knowledge and they are blocking almost all rennovictions and demovictions? Whats being developed should be only the C3 and C2 Commercial sites.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by misher

Anything RM-3 isn't changing to my knowledge and they are blocking almost all rennovictions and demovictions? Whats being developed should be only the C3 and C2 Commercial sites.

RM-3 would be pretty decent in Kits to replace RM-4. A lot of Kits lots no longer matches the current zoning. Don't know who is blocking renovictions and demovictions.

The IC zone here will definitely feel the heat. Bodes well for me.

[Changing City]

Just a couple of clarifications on some of the discussion above: Jericho isn't an Indian Reserve. It's following the normal planning process for a large site redevelopment (like Pearson Hospital or the River District). Sen̓áḵw is an Indian Reserve - the Squamish Nation got it back because it used to be part of their village, and they were forced off it. That's why they can contemplate tall towers with minimal parking - they don't have to follow anybody else's rules here.

Schools aren't developed by the City - they're built by the School Board, but almost always with Provincial funds. It's the Province who up to now haven't made funds available for a new school at the Olympic Village, even though the City have reserved a site. As this is a very recent proposal, and we don't know anything about the unit size mix (so how many family friendly units there might be) it's a bit early to contemplate needs like a new school.

[scryer]

@mods: how does a popcorn emoji happen?

As mentioned before: this is a game changer for the city. The city is going to have to keep up or look stupid.

[logan5]

Jericho is Native land.