Downtown Update

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Lots of people do in toronto, don’t kid yourself. In the immediate downtown there isn’t permit parking available but outside of it, on street parking is very common. It’s actually way cheaper than owning an underground spot, if slightly less convenient.

It's almost all permit parking though. No new builds come with that. It's all the old houses.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

It's almost all permit parking though. No new builds come with that. It's all the old houses.

Apartments can use it as well, provided the building is within a permit parking area and hasn’t been explicitly excluded with an individual bylaw (most aren’t). The fees are just a bit higher, though still cheaper than buying / renting a spot. Think $50 a month instead of $15 if you live in a house without a parking spot.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Apartments can use it as well, provided the building is within a permit parking area and hasn’t been explicitly excluded with an individual bylaw (most aren’t). The fees are just a bit higher, though still cheaper than buying / renting a spot. Think $50 a month instead of $15 if you live in a house without a parking spot.

But again, rarely does the city ban a develop because of parking.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

But again, rarely does the city ban a develop because of parking.

I agree with your comments on street parking in Downtown Toronto. It's beyond difficult to find street parking in Downtown Toronto and if you do find parking, it's going to cost you a good amount per day. When you weight out the pros vs cons, it's not worth paying for parking every day on the street vs buying or renting a parking spot in a condo/apartment.

However, once you start going further uptown, passed Yorkville, you might find parking on residential streets for cheaper or for free (completely dependant on the area and how busy that area is though).

Most new builds in Toronto, have less parking spots than actual units.

Most residents of Downtown Toronto work or go to school there. A car isn't needed as much as it is in Hamilton, Guelph, Kitchener, London, etc, because of Toronto's walkability and for the variety of different types of public transit on the TTC (Subway, LRT, Busses, more routes all over the city, making it easier to get to point A to point B)

Residents that own a parking spot are usually commuters who drive outside of Downtown to get to work on a regular basis (I was once in this same position), use for visiting family or traveling, not wanting to sell your car, and one of the biggest factors now for owning a parking spot... rent! You can rent a parking spot in a Downtown Toronto condo from anywhere between $250-400/month depending on the area. Owning a spot is always smarter for resale value also.

That being said, I believe Hamilton City Hall knows Hamilton is a driving city (at least for the foreseeable future) It makes sense that they would advocate for X amount of parking spaces in a proposed development. I also don't think it should be the make or break for a condo development getting approved though. If a developer doesn't see the value in having a ton of parking spots in their development, they should be able to build without those spots. That's a big gamble for the developer though. Most people that walk through sales centres in Hamilton want parking spots. The prices have increased, but you would be surprised at the number of people who need to ensure they can purchase a parking spot, prior to moving forward with the actual condo purchase. It's just the reality at the moment. Most people drive in Hamilton on a daily basis.

[TheRitsman]

I completely get all that. As an advocate for walkability and cycling I would prefer the city to reduce parking spots rather than deny developments because of them, and push for car share and bicycle storage facilities. And again, if a developer doesn't want to put in parking that should be their decision. I want Hamilton to not be a driving city in my lifetime. Forcing developers to put 1-1.2 spots per unit will not help that goal be achieved.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I completely get all that. As an advocate for walkability and cycling I would prefer the city to reduce parking spots rather than deny developments because of them, and push for car share and bicycle storage facilities. And again, if a developer doesn't want to put in parking that should be their decision. I want Hamilton to not be a driving city in my lifetime. Forcing developers to put 1-1.2 spots per unit will not help that goal be achieved.

Agreed. It should be the decision of the developer. However, even if the City becomes lessens the parking spot per unit ratio, every development in Hamilton will require some parking. A developer won't build a condo or apartment building without at least some parking for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

A Developer will make a lot of money selling parking spaces in their development in Hamilton right now. It's in the best interests for the developer to do that. Hamilton is still very much a driving city. LRT will help change that for sure, same goes for HSR, road improvements for cyclists, and hopefully a more expansive GO Train schedule... (i'm not optimistic about that part happening soon though lol) A lot of people live in condos and apartments Downtown and they drive out of the city to work every day. They need a car because the GO service just isn't good or dependable enough.

Hamilton is also pretty spread out geographically and you have to factor in getting from Downtown to up the Mountain (and vice versa) or from Downtown Hamilton to Dundas, etc all in a reasonable amount of time. I would rather be able to drive from Downtown Hamilton to Dundas in 12-15 minutes compared to anywhere from 25-40 minutes on the HSR. Everyone has a different viewpoint on that, but I would personally want to get from point A to B quickly.

Again, I do agree with your point. I just think that if Developers can make big money selling parking spaces, they're going to continue building them. The City and the transit authorities (HSR and GO) need to improve their infrastructure and services before we see fewer vehicles on the road.

If the city does approve a condo development without parking, would that development have an easy time selling out? Parking is 100% still a deciding factor for potential purchasers (not all but most). If the development doesn't sell enough units because of a lack of parking, it probably won't get built.

[Chronamut]

I also want to bring up another point - visitors. Ever have friends visit you from other parts of the cities, other cities, other provinces, other countries even? Where are they going to park when they visit you? My apartment was recently renovated and they took the visitor parking from like 9 spots down to 5 - and one guy parks his boat there and won that legal battle so now it's down to 4 - so now it's russian roulette when someone comes to visit whether they are going to be able to park somewhere. Where do they park in that case?

You need parking spots because people drive cars - it's just that simple - you will never have a city where nobody drives period. People say "ohh you can take public transport" - unfortunately with the waits a 3 min car ride can take up to an hour with public transportation. So many times people without cars take a cab because trying to get to where they want to go requires too much stringing together of public transportation systems, which is made even more doubly inconvenient in the wintertime.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

I also want to bring up another point - visitors. Ever have friends visit you from other parts of the cities, other cities, other provinces, other countries even? Where are they going to park when they visit you? My apartment was recently renovated and they took the visitor parking from like 9 spots down to 5 - and one guy parks his boat there and won that legal battle so now it's down to 4 - so now it's russian roulette when someone comes to visit whether they are going to be able to park somewhere. Where do they park in that case?

You need parking spots because people drive cars - it's just that simple - you will never have a city where nobody drives period. People say "ohh you can take public transport" - unfortunately with the waits a 3 min car ride can take up to an hour with public transportation. So many times people without cars take a cab because trying to get to where they want to go requires too much stringing together of public transportation systems, which is made even more doubly inconvenient in the wintertime.

Yup, all valid points.

The City won't allow a development to be approved without parking involved in their development. There's a massive need for parking from the consumer and the developer has the ability to capitalize financially off selling those parking spots. Both parties win.

The point Ritsman has is 100% valid. I do think the city should reconsider their parking requirements for developments. I just don't see a development with 0 parking being viable from the perspective of a developer or a resident.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

Yup, all valid points.

The City won't allow a development to be approved without parking involved in their development. There's a massive need for parking from the consumer and the developer has the ability to capitalize financially off selling those parking spots. Both parties win.

The point Ritsman has is 100% valid. I do think the city should reconsider their parking requirements for developments. I just don't see a development with 0 parking being viable from the perspective of a developer or a resident.

Well that's the thing, with podiums, integrating parking into the first few floors, or underground parking, there isn't really an excuse for any new develop to have NO parking.

[Davis137]

Out of curiosity, with the volume of highrise condo projects that are currently going up, in addition to the ones that recently became approved, is there really that high of a demand for all of them, and are people filling them up?

It's my understanding that Hamilton is one of the hottest real-estate markets in the country right now, due to it's proximity to the GTA (seemingly always developing like gangbusters), yet without it's price of admission...

[King&James]

I see a lot of banter and renderings , but only a few sites actually swinging hammers . The only indicator of demand being filled is in Vrancor development, where they keep on going with the next tower, so unless they have super deep pockets ... they must be filling them up.

[king10]

Originally Posted by King&James

I see a lot of banter and renderings , but only a few sites actually swinging hammers . The only indicator of demand being filled is in Vrancor development, where they keep on going with the next tower, so unless they have super deep pockets ... they must be filling them up.

They have super deep pockets.....

Build first, find out who will live there later.

[atnor]

Originally Posted by king10

They have super deep pockets.....

Build first, find out who will live there later.

You can say their pockets are lined with SOLID GOLD.

[king10]

Originally Posted by atnor

You can say their pockets are lined with SOLID GOLD.

Bingo

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^I don't think Darko ever did bingo. Or maybe that's why he brought all those Eastern European women over here, to call out numbers? That's what he told them anyway...

[lachlanholmes]

Here's a look at the progress on The Pasadena condos, from last Wednesday:

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Can't wait to see inside. Loved the old one - hope they're doing a tasteful renovation.

[timach]

They've been working on Pasenda forever now it seems.

[Chronamut]

Sigh you just don't see detailing on buildings like that anymore.. look at all the stone.. it's got great bones.

[realcity]

the only city that makes sense with height restrictions is DC. Beyond that even Tokyo has done away with height limits.