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View Poll Results: What should be given priority for LRT Stage 3?
Rural Rail 3 2.29%
Barrhaven 14 10.69%
South East 0 0%
Kanata 32 24.43%
Gatineau 19 14.50%
Orleans 0 0%
Bank St Subway 37 28.24%
Montreal Road 23 17.56%
Other 3 2.29%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2019, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawaresident View Post
STO Buses? Does OCTranspo even have the authority over the STO?
No. And STO doesn't have any authority over OC Transpo. They are totally independent, but sometimes agree to cooperate with each other.
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  #182  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 5:39 PM
corynv corynv is offline
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Originally Posted by Ottawaresident View Post
STO Buses? Does OCTranspo even have the authority over the STO?
I was talking about the gatineau's LRT plan. not the Confederation line.
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  #183  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by corynv View Post
I was talking about the gatineau's LRT plan. not the Confederation line.
Ahh. That is the post Ottawaresident was referencing (he never quotes his replies). Your post was obvious to me, but then again, I try to not call either of the O-Train lines LRT, since they aren't. Gatineau will have the region's first LRT system.
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  #184  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 1:55 PM
Ottawaresident Ottawaresident is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Ahh. That is the post Ottawaresident was referencing (he never quotes his replies). Your post was obvious to me, but then again, I try to not call either of the O-Train lines LRT, since they aren't. Gatineau will have the region's first LRT system.
It isn't LRT? Everyone says it is!
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  #185  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:04 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Ottawaresident View Post
It isn't LRT? Everyone says it is!
Yes, it is grade separated LRT. It is clear that this is the technology that we are using.

It may provide light metro service quality and capacity, but it is still using LRT technology.

It is just like saying that the Trillium Line is LRT when it is actually using regional diesel trains.
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  #186  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:04 PM
Ottawaresident Ottawaresident is offline
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What is the difference between all those? I know the Trillium is old rail line, so techinically it is a mainline railway ...
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  #187  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawaresident View Post
What is the difference between all those? I know the Trillium is old rail line, so techinically it is a mainline railway ...
LRT tend to be extended versions of trams. They are capable of running on streets or having level crossings. They are almost always electric. Most new models are low floor. Older models were high floor and are still produced for the many cities which built lines designed for them.

Metros tend not to be low floor, usually longer than LRT, often powered by a third rail (not always), but always in a fully segregated right of way. They cannot run on streets.

Regional trains may be diesel or electric and are designed to run longer distances, therefore faster, but are relatively short reflecting that they are not designed for extended intercity service. For example, they might be used on a route between Ottawa and Cornwall or Ottawa and Kingston but not Ottawa and Toronto. These would never run on streets although level crossing are possible.

Commuter trains are designed for very high capacity, so often double decker or quite long trains but lacking the amenities seen on intercity trains such as dining facilities. These would never run on streets. Level crossings are occasionally possible but not desirable considering the size of the trains.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Mar 21, 2019 at 2:36 PM.
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  #188  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:23 PM
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Thanks lrt's Friend!

Last edited by Ottawaresident; Mar 26, 2019 at 2:12 PM.
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  #189  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 12:57 AM
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Good Day. An FYI from CBC :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ford-phase-3-lrt-1.5069022

Quote:
Doug Ford open to talking about funding Phase 3 LRT for Ottawa
Stage 3 would connect Kanata, Stittsville and Barrhaven to downtown core
CBC News · Posted: Mar 23, 2019 10:46 AM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago

Ontario Premier Doug Ford is keeping the door open when it comes to talks about funding a west-end light rail transit extension for Ottawa.

The premier was in town on Friday to ink the provincial government's $1.2-billion contribution towards the Stage 2 LRT project.

During the funding announcement, Ford was asked whether his government would commit to filling in that last big piece.

"Let's get Phase 2 done and we'll talk about Phase 3, but I'm always committed to great transit especially in a great city like Ottawa and the surrounding region," he responded. "It's going to make life a lot easier to get from point A to point B."

The project, now estimated to cost $4.66 billion, will extend light rail to the city's growing suburbs.

It also unlocks the possibility of laying track out to the growing populations in the western suburbs of Kanata, Stittsville and Barrhaven.

Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley said the premier's openness is encouraging.

"I really did like his comments about Phase 3," he said.

While fielding questions from reporters, Ford acknowledged that pressure from his local Progressive Conservative MPPs — Lisa MacLeod, Merrilee Fullerton, Jeremy Roberts and Goldie Ghamari — helped secure the Stage 2 funding.

Hubley, who also chairs of the city's transit commission, said that bodes well for his residents.

"If that's where he's going to get his advice, I'd say Phase 3 looks really good," he said.

For Stage 3 to happen, the city has said it would need to count on the federal and provincial governments to split the entire bill 50/50.

Timeline needed: Brockington

River Ward Coun. Riley Brockington said other cities have already received that type of deal, pointing to Hamilton as an example.

"If we've gone down that road, there should be some consistency. Why would city of Ottawa taxpayers pay when other municipalities' taxpayers are not?" he said.

Brockington said the city would like to know sooner than later what kind of commitments the higher levels of government are willing to go in on.

"We need to have that information years in advance," he said.

Phase 2 — the Confederation and Trillium line extensions — will stretch to Trim Road, Moodie Drive and Riverside South, with a link to the Ottawa International Airport.

It will add 24 stations and 44 kilometres, to be finished by 2025.

The federal government is also kicking in $1.2 billion, while the city must find a way to pay for the rest — an amount that has ballooned considerably from initial cost estimates.

With files from the CBC's Kate Porter.
Hyperbole, but for what it's worth.......especially since we've already in effect swallowed the 1/3 funding municipal share in making up for the Phase 2 $1.2B overrun.
But the estimates on Phase 3 have to be way better quality.

EnJoy!
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  #190  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day. An FYI from CBC :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ford-phase-3-lrt-1.5069022



Hyperbole, but for what it's worth.......especially since we've already in effect swallowed the 1/3 funding municipal share in making up for the Phase 2 $1.2B overrun.
But the estimates on Phase 3 have to be way better quality.

EnJoy!
Yup, cause if we ask 50/50 based on yet another worthless estimate, we'll end up paying 1/3 anyway. At least it would be the first time we'd have to pay 1/3 and not significantly more.
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  #191  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 7:22 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Yup, cause if we ask 50/50 based on yet another worthless estimate, we'll end up paying 1/3 anyway. At least it would be the first time we'd have to pay 1/3 and not significantly more.
Don't see how we would every be granted 50/50 and we don't have the money for any share. Stage 3 is all a ruse to keep Kanata politically onside for stage 2.
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  #192  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 9:01 PM
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Don't see how we would every be granted 50/50 and we don't have the money for any share. Stage 3 is all a ruse to keep Kanata politically onside for stage 2.
I do think it is possible the province does pay for half since it goes to conservative ridings which is why I suspect ford agreed to fund the 1.2 billion for stage 2
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  #193  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 9:33 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
I do think it is possible the province does pay for half since it goes to conservative ridings which is why I suspect ford agreed to fund the 1.2 billion for stage 2
That's assuming we'll still have a conservative provincial government when Stage 3 is ready to be funded.
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  #194  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 9:44 PM
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That's assuming we'll still have a conservative provincial government when Stage 3 is ready to be funded.
It's an assumption I'm willing to make
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  #195  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2019, 2:43 AM
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Flipping back to Montreal Road rapid transit: The City need to put this back into the TMP so they can secure a wider ROW. Most the corridor through Vanier is around 20m right now and protected is only 23m. City should be protecting somewhere closer to 27m for an ultimate configuration of something like:
2.2m sidewalk
1.2m buffer/trees
1.8m cycle track
0.3m buffer
3.5m dedicated transit
3.5m vehicle
shared turning / centreline

Since nothing significant in terms of rapid transit is likely to happen on Montreal Road for another decade, it’s probably less expensive to pay for the additional ROW width than to tunnel beneath the existing narrow ROW.
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  #196  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2019, 3:02 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by dougvdh View Post
Flipping back to Montreal Road rapid transit: The City need to put this back into the TMP so they can secure a wider ROW. Most the corridor through Vanier is around 20m right now and protected is only 23m. City should be protecting somewhere closer to 27m for an ultimate configuration of something like:
2.2m sidewalk
1.2m buffer/trees
1.8m cycle track
0.3m buffer
3.5m dedicated transit
3.5m vehicle
shared turning / centreline

Since nothing significant in terms of rapid transit is likely to happen on Montreal Road for another decade, it’s probably less expensive to pay for the additional ROW width than to tunnel beneath the existing narrow ROW.

That would mean demolishing a bunch of the urban part of Montreal Road, which is kinda counterproductive.
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  #197  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2019, 3:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
That would mean demolishing a bunch of the urban part of Montreal Road, which is kinda counterproductive.
If rapid transit comes to the urban part of Montreal Rd, much of what's there will be demolished through redevelopment anyways. On the north side in particular, there aren't exactly that many significant urban buildings.

Besides, protecting an ROW doesn't mean demolishing anything, it just prevents any new developments within the protected corridor. And if the city had to buy some properties, it would still cost far less than $300m / km.
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  #198  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 12:55 AM
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No guarantees that Stage 3 LRT funding is a short-term lock in Liberal minority

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 22, 2019


Don’t think that three levels of government will quickly come up with a plan to fund LRT extensions to Kanata and Barrhaven.

The re-election of a federal Liberal government, which was knocked down to minority status after Monday’s vote, should give city hall some security on funding from the upper-tier level of government for a few years.

But the federal election doesn’t make Stage 3 O-Train funding a sure thing during the next term of government, mostly because there’s a huge amount of transit-planning work still to be done by city hall and there’s a chance another federal election could happen before the work is done.

It’s even remarkable that the city in 2019 has been talking about the real prospect of starting a Stage 3 expansion. The city is just learning how to run a LRT-backboned transit system and it recently started clearing trees and digging up land for the Stage 2 expansion, whose contracts only received council’s blessing last spring.

A Stage 3 isn’t in the city’s plans until sometime after 2031, but communities are eager to get LRT access.

When the city broke ground on Stage 1 in 2013, people already wanted to know when trains would travel farther past Tunney’s Pasture and Blair stations. It took about six years until Stage 2 started construction. The full Stage 2 project, which has O-Train extensions in four directions, is scheduled to be done in 2025.

If, like Stage 2, the city wants to begin construction on Stage 3 when the previous stage opens, it would need to move fast to complete the ground work.

The environmental assessment for Kanata LRT is done, which means it has been the first in line for funding. But the city is keen on having a Stage 3 with both Kanata and Barrhaven receiving LRT links at the same time. A Barrhaven LRT environmental assessment is scheduled to be wrapped up near the end of 2020.

The cost of the Barrhaven LRT extension to Chapman Mills Drive will be estimated in the environmental assessment. The full Kanata LRT extension to Hazeldean Road, south of the Canadian Tire Centre, has been ballparked at $1.85 billion.

The city is counting on the two upper levels of government to pay for Stage 3 with no property tax money contributed.

While the Barrhaven study is happening, the city needs to update its authoritative guide to expanding transportation infrastructure.

A refresh of the transportation master plan isn’t scheduled to be complete until spring 2022. The policy document, which will require council’s approval, is the ultimate blueprint for how and when the city builds new roads, cycling lanes and LRT lines.

Making things more complicated is a provincial Progressive Conservative government that’s interested in expanding public transit (certainly in the Toronto area) but trying to manage spending.

Elections can work in cities’ favour, though.

The next provincial election is scheduled for spring 2022 and a Stage 3 funding commitment is something that could help PC incumbents in the west and south ends of Ottawa.

There could be another federal election in that rough timeframe, depending on the stability of the Liberal minority.

Mayor Jim Watson pressed federal candidates in recent weeks to support Stage 3, but it might have been too early to make that play, especially without having a full cost estimate ready for Barrrhaven LRT. The soft answers by local Liberal candidates to a question in Watson’s survey regarding their commitment to Stage 3 funding might indicate just that.

So, despite a degree of comfort with a Liberal minority government at city hall, there are still questions on Stage 3 funding.

There are other questions Ottawa residents might have with a new federal government coming in. Here are two in particular.

Who will be the political master of the National Capital Commission?

The Liberals gave the heritage minister the responsibility for the NCC in the most recent federal government, where the former Conservative government chose cabinet ministers from the National Capital Region to oversee the agency, such as Pierre Polievre, John Baird and Lawrence Cannon. Montreal MP Pablo Rodriguez is currently in charge as heritage minister. Another Montreal MP, Mélanie Joly, was previously in charge before cabinet portfolios were changed.

What’s really going to happen with the Prince of Wales Bridge?

Watson said trains will never run across the old Ottawa River crossing because Bayview Station would be overloaded with transit customers. Federal Liberal candidates promised support to help turn the bridge into a multi-use interprovincial pathway. The transportation master plan includes the city-owned bridge as a future rail link to Gatineau, which is why the city bought it in the first place. Coun. Theresa Kavanagh wants to know on what basis the city has decided the bridge won’t be used for rail. She’s not the only one at city hall who will be interested in the answer from staff.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...is-a-short-term-lock-in-liberal-minority
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  #199  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 7:03 PM
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Someone remind me again why we don't use existing city ROW ownership for Stage 3? I do understand the rationale behind the current plan for Kanata LRT, but it seems like this alternative would also be feasible.

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  #200  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
Someone remind me again why we don't use existing city ROW ownership for Stage 3? I do understand the rationale behind the current plan for Kanata LRT, but it seems like this alternative would also be feasible.

A bunch of alternatives were considered for Stage 3 Kanata, but this was not one of them... I would have to assume that they reasoned they did not want to split frequency again for two Kanata branches.

Still, I think this would have been a decent alternative if combined with good BRT links between the two Kanata branches.
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