Should Apartment & House Sharing be Allowed to Increase Housing Supply?

CaliNative · #1 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 9:23 PM**

Most apartment managers/owners won't allow you to sublet units, so it is done secretly by many and if the owner/manager finds out, the original renter will probably be evicted. Some cities & HOAs won't allow homeowners to rent out rooms in their houses or condos, to set up "rooming houses". To ease the housing shortage and high costs of housing & rents in many cities, should the rules change to allow shared houses and apartments?

sopas ej · #2 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Most apartments won't allow you to sublet units. Some cities & HOAs won't allow homeowners to rent out rooms in their houses, or set up "rooming houses". To ease the housing shortage and high costs of housing & rents in many cities, should the rules change to allow shared houses and apartments?

Yes, I think so.

In fact, this was common during the Great Depression. When you look at census records from the 1930s, you often saw people listed as "boarder" at addresses. I guess a "boarder" is a semantic difference somewhat from people who sublet, but still, same kind of thing.

CaliNative · #3 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Yes, I think so.

In fact, this was the common during the Great Depression. When you look at census records from the 1930s, you often saw people listed as "boarder" at addresses.

It is still common in many expensive cities, e.g. NYC, L.A., S.F., San Diego etc., but it is usually done secretly since it is not allowed in the lease usually. But it goes on anyway. If you own the unit, it is less likely you will be found out, unless you are in an HOA that prohibits such house sharing. But it is a major issue with renters. You can see the point of the owners--crowded housing = plumbing problems (10 people with one toilet...call Roto Rooter), parking shortages, more vermin like mice, rats & roaches, more wear & tear etc. But on the other hand, people need to live somewhere and many can't afford the soaring rents. So they get a room or "couch surf" for a nominal rent. Some cities like San Diego are talking about allowing homeowners to build more garage apartments and backyard units ("granny flats") but there is opposition to this plan by NIMBYs. In many poorer districts in cities like L.A., apartment and house sharing (whether legally allowed or under the table) are the rule, not the exception. It accounts for the high population densities of many poor inner city neighborhoods. It also happens in wealthy areas, where owners let maids and nannies stay in rooms, usually as part of their wages.

iheartthed · #4 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 9:55 PM**

You mean, should people be allowed to have roommates? Where exactly is this not allowed?

Steely Dan · #5 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 9:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

You mean, should people be allowed to have roommates? Where exactly is this not allowed?

i was gonna ask the same thing.

every apartment i lived at in chicago during my 20s i had roommates.

it was never an an issue.

iheartthed · #6 Posted **Mar 6, 2019, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i was gonna ask the same thing.

every apartment i lived at in chicago during my 20s i had roommates.

it was never an an issue.

Yeah, similar experience. When I lived in Ann Arbor, I was only on the lease for one of the four years I lived off campus. In my first couple of years in New York, I also did not put myself on the lease.

Many places have laws that consider you a resident of a dwelling if you have occupied it for 30 consecutive days. After 30 days the lease holder or property owner has to obtain an eviction notice from a court in order to force you out (be careful with your Airbnbs!).

Pedestrian · #7 Posted **Mar 7, 2019, 6:04 AM**

No. You may want to share your living space with a hoard but in a multifamily building you have neighbors. Turning the building into a crowded slum affects them too . . . adversely.

Pedestrian · #8 Posted **Mar 7, 2019, 6:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i was gonna ask the same thing.

every apartment i lived at in chicago during my 20s i had roommates.

it was never an an issue.

How many roomates? Many leases ban subletting but permit multiple tenants who are on the lease. So as long as you and your roommates were all on the lease, the landord would not only be OK with it but he might be happy because he has several people he can go after if the rent isn't paid. But many localities also have limits on how many warm bodies you can crowd into a unit.

In San Francisco:

Quote:

occupancy limits . . . generally limit the total number of occupants to 2 persons in a studio unit, 3 persons in a one-bedroom unit, 4 persons in a two-bedroom unit, 6 persons in a three-bedroom unit, or 8 persons in a four-bedroom unit.

https://www.sftu.org/roommates/

I would guess this is typical.

Steely Dan · #9 Posted **Mar 7, 2019, 3:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Many leases ban subletting but permit multiple tenants who are on the lease.

usually we were all on the lease, but one time when i was sharing a 3 bed flat in wrigleyville with two other guys, one of them left abruptly to take a job opportunity in another city, so the two of us who remained told the landlord that we would cut him loose and honor the lease ourselves and he was cool with that.

then like a month later a friend told me that one of his college friends from germany was coming to chicago for a 6 month project, and i was like "well shit, we have a spare bedroom, let me know if he's looking for a place to crash". and that was that, the dude from germany moved in and stayed with us on a sublet handshake agreement, and the landlord, who lived down in st. louis, never had a clue/care.

the urban politician · #10 Posted **Mar 7, 2019, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How many roomates? Many leases ban subletting

^ In Chicago, landlords are banned from banning subletting.

You see, we have this slimy document called the CRLTO written by a bunch of pro-tenant hacks that severely restricts landlord rights for no other reason than to just be dicks to them out of spite.

Specifically in the CRLTO, Landlords must accept a reasonable sublet from the tenant. Of course, the original tenant is still legally bound to the lease for its duration.

Obadno · #11 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 7:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Most apartment managers/owners won't allow you to sublet units, so it is done secretly by many and if the owner/manager finds out, the original renter will probably be evicted. Some cities & HOAs won't allow homeowners to rent out rooms in their houses or condos, to set up "rooming houses". To ease the housing shortage and high costs of housing & rents in many cities, should the rules change to allow shared houses and apartments?

I am all for embracing the sharing economy, Arizona as a state policy has publically stated it has every intention to embrace it and I have seen no ill effects by it.

The only thing people might not like is an upscale area renting out to loud partiers but that is a personal issue you need to figure out within your community/HOA/Building etc.

dave8721 · #12 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 8:47 PM**

I have no problem with subletting and allowing the renting out of rooms as long as there is a minimum length to prevent them from being turned into defacto hotels (1 month+). Things like AirBnb only exacerbate housing shortages by taking housing stock out of circulation for residents and having them used as hotels for visitors.

Tom In Chicago · #13 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How many roomates? Many leases ban subletting but permit multiple tenants who are on the lease. So as long as you and your roommates were all on the lease, the landord would not only be OK with it but he might be happy because he has several people he can go after if the rent isn't paid.

Same story here. . . all through my 20s in Chicago I had roommates. . . we had up to 7 people living in a 3 bedroom apartment (the guys in the unit above us had 3 people in a 3 bedroom apartment as well). . . our apartment had 3 of us on the lease and we just subletted periodically to other college kids as needed. . . the leasing agency never knew who all lived there at any given time with the exception of those of us on the lease. . .

. . .

SpongeG · #14 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 10:48 PM**

There seems to be a growing trend, like here in Vancouver, where Friends are joining their finances and buying a house together, either live and share it or divide it up so they have their own unit.

There is also this startup where people can buy shares in a house just as an investment not to live in.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4487219/a...s-little-as-1/

the urban politician · #15 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 10:49 PM**

To be honest, the manager/landlord really doesn’t care as long as you aren’t damaging the place and they are getting their rent

SpongeG · #16 Posted **Mar 12, 2019, 10:54 PM**

Vancouver right now has over 800 mansions listed for rent, its a way for the owners to get around the empty house tax.

Why are hundreds of luxury Vancouver mansions being rented for cheap?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/why-ar...heap-1.4329800

Quote:

“I didn't expect this,” Roy told CTV News. “I thought when there were 25 it was noteworthy. I didn't expect to find 800.”

The city of Vancouver is facing a crisis in housing affordability, with one bedroom units averaging about $1,730 per month.

But these rentals offer a single room in a multi-bedroom house for anywhere between $700 and $1,500, with more than 5,000 empty bedrooms available across the city.

“Maybe the cheapest real estate right now is mansion rentals,” Roy said.