O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service - Page 47

OCCheetos · #**921** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView

I'm not sure. But that Uplands Station only has an actual station platform on one side of the track (even though there are two in the rendering)

It's a passing track a la Carleton.

MountainView · #**922** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It's a passing track a la Carleton.

Am I missing something? Carleton has a station on each side of the passing tracks. It doesn't seem like the Uplands rendering does.

lrt's friend · #**923** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but where's the 3rd track for the Airport spur?

You are right. Are they changing the plan again? I am not sure how this is to work when South Keys is supposed to be a passing track and the terminus for the airport shuttle. South Keys will have both sides occupied like at Carleton. Somehow the airport shuttle has slip in, wait and be back out in the 12 minutes between subsequent trains. Maybe it is doable given that the airport spur trains have to run between South Keys and the Airport in about 10 minutes. The round trip has to be accomplished in 24 minutes.

lrt's friend · #**924** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 4:14 AM**

I think we need to take these station designs with a grain of salt, when Uplands station appears to only have a station on one side. I know this is supposed to be the location of the passing track so it only works with the station extending to both sides.

OCCheetos · #**925** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 6:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView

Am I missing something? Carleton has a station on each side of the passing tracks. It doesn't seem like the Uplands rendering does.

I think that's an error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You are right. Are they changing the plan again? I am not sure how this is to work when South Keys is supposed to be a passing track and the terminus for the airport shuttle. South Keys will have both sides occupied like at Carleton. Somehow the airport shuttle has slip in, wait and be back out in the 12 minutes between subsequent trains. Maybe it is doable given that the airport spur trains have to run between South Keys and the Airport in about 10 minutes. The round trip has to be accomplished in 24 minutes.

The pocket track is still in the plan (based on these renders).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think we need to take these station designs with a grain of salt, when Uplands station appears to only have a station on one side. I know this is supposed to be the location of the passing track so it only works with the station extending to both sides.

As mentioned in the tweets, these renders are preliminary. Since these were just design "submissions" anything could change between now and the actual station construction.

kmcamp · #**926** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 12:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

How can the Line 2 extension can be ever approved at the price?! I can't fathom it, I see most stations are double tracked, is it possible that is what is proposed?

This is the total price for all extensions, not just line 2. Actually this is the first honest numbers we've seen in a while. Somehow the city had added 14km of rail and 5 stations to the plan and yet all for the magical price of $0 before

J.OT13 · #**927** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 1:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

This is the total price for all extensions, not just line 2. Actually this is the first honest numbers we've seen in a while. Somehow the city had added 14km of rail and 5 stations to the plan and yet all for the magical price of $0 before

That was from all the value engineering like re-aligning the Richmond Underground tunnel to bypass the Utilitarian Church and building under the Byron Strip instead of Richmond, having the train use the existing underpass at Blair, creating a curve, instead of going straight. There were a few others. Although these things did save money, whether or not it's that much money, we'll never know. In any case, the estimates were greatly flawed.

J.OT13 · #**928** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 1:30 PM**

I strongly believe that Stage 2 South should be dumped. That's the one that has ballooned way out of budget for something that provide no improvements in terms of frequency, little improvement in capacity, capacity that will be reached quickly, and to boot, the choice of SNC Lavalin could be problematic.

For the Confederation extension, the City needs to take a close look at the other bidders. They might be a few hundred million above East-West Connectors, but there must be a reason for that. This smells very fishy.

acottawa · #**929** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:40 PM**

This is a problem with trying to do 4 projects as one big phase two. If they would stagger these projects they could update their estimates for the next phase based on lessons learned.

Multi-modal · #**930** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I strongly believe that Stage 2 South should be dumped. That's the one that has ballooned way out of budget for something that provide no improvements in terms of frequency, little improvement in capacity, capacity that will be reached quickly, and to boot, the choice of SNC Lavalin could be problematic.

I'm not sure where you are getting this... my understanding has been that the east-west line's budget has ballooned, while SNC actually bid underbudget for Line 2 (higher construction costs but lower maintenance)

Truenorth00 · #**931** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

$600 million budget for Trillium was for both the capital cost and maintenance? I thought that was just capital cost. Was the $2.6 billion just for capital also, or did it include the extended RTG contract and additional train sets?

Where’d you see $2.6 billion and what does that include?

Multi-modal · #**932** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

This is a problem with trying to do 4 projects as one big phase two. If they would stagger these projects they could update their estimates for the next phase based on lessons learned.

We need to get past the idea that we can only do one project at a time in this city. It simply isn't the case.

Truenorth00 · #**933** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I'm not sure where you are getting this... my understanding has been that the east-west line's budget has ballooned, while SNC actually bid underbudget for Line 2 (higher construction costs but lower maintenance)

Yeah. Curious about his math.

If Trillium South went from $600 million to $2.6 billion, that’s a $2 billion increase. How does that lead to Stage 2 being only $1.2 billion over budget?

acottawa · #**934** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

We need to get past the idea that we can only do one project at a time in this city. It simply isn't the case.

It certainly seems like it is.

acottawa · #**935** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. Curious about his math.

If Trillium South went from $600 million to $2.6 billion, that’s a $2 billion increase. How does that lead to Stage 2 being only $1.2 billion over budget?

This article

https://globalnews.ca/news/4987939/snc-l...ty-of-ottawas-top-picks-for-stage-2-lrt/

says 663M for Trillium, which is less ballooning than the Confederation Line extensions.

J.OT13 · #**936** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:11 PM**

I thought that the estimate was $3.6 billion for capital costs only. $3 billion for Confederation and $600 million for Trillium.

Going through the presentation, I learned that the capital cost was estimated at $2.661 billion total or $1.98 billion for Confederation and $663 million for Trillium.

I did not realize that included maintenance for both along with the Alstom train sets, but not the Stadlers?

Considering Stage 1 cost (so far) is $2.2 billion in 2013 dollars for 12.5 kilometers and 13 stations, anyone could have told the City that they had a grossly underestimated Stage 2 Confederation with 27 kilometers and 16 stations. Sure, Stage 2 doesn't have the deep level subway, but is still has significant tunneling.

zzptichka · #**937** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:18 PM**

Phase 2 provincial funding probably now hinges on how strongly Lisa McLeod lobbies for it.
Interesting how Phase 2 stops just short of reaching her district in 3 places: Riverside South, Baseline and Moodie.
Wonder how it would affect it.

Truenorth00 · #**938** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:22 PM**

So. Just to confirm, Trillium South is not $2.6B as was asserted before.

acottawa · #**939** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

So. Just to confirm, Trillium South is not $2.6B as was asserted before.

I have not seen anything official to suggest that. 2.6 billion would get a subway under Bronson.

J.OT13 · #**940** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Phase 2 provincial funding probably now hinges on how strongly Lisa McLeod lobbies for it.
Interesting how Phase 2 stops just short of reaching her district in 3 places: Riverside South, Baseline and Moodie.
Wonder how it would affect it.

Her area is next in line as part of Stage 3, so she should be lobbying hard. If the province backs out, I sure as hell hope all local Conservatives are banished from Ottawa ridings the next couple election cycles.