Sparks Street

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

So I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the Bank of Canada just finished building a VERY LARGE SQUARE square ON Sparks Street. Fully wired for sound, complete with seating for a few hundred people.

*cue tumbleweeds, granulated salt, and a howling, windy kind of noise*

In the summer, it's much busier than its previous iteration, thought I don't know why they didn't really make an amphitheater type thing out of it.

But that's not what I'm thinking of when I think of "square". It's not the open space that forms the square that needs to be at the centre of "square" thinking. It's the uses along the periphery of the square. The need to be ground-oriented, street-oriented, transparent, engaging, diverse, and small. The fewer of those things the use has, the less it should be on Sparks. (Hi, CBC studios failure.)

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

In the summer, it's much busier than its previous iteration, thought I don't know why they didn't really make an amphitheater type thing out of it.

But that's not what I'm thinking of when I think of "square". It's not the open space that forms the square that needs to be at the centre of "square" thinking. It's the uses along the periphery of the square. The need to be ground-oriented, street-oriented, transparent, engaging, diverse, and small. The fewer of those things the use has, the less it should be on Sparks. (Hi, CBC studios failure.)

Exactly!

I have seen a lot of squares in Europe in the last few years. Typically, they have a variety of restaurants with patios spilling out onto the sidewalks. Maybe a statue or a garden or a fountain in the centre of the square with lots of places to sit even if you are not in one of the restaurants, a place to read or people watch or just relax. Retail or other attractions are usually on the surrounding streets. The square should be a gathering place for people, not cars and buses (think Lyon Street).

I look at Sparks and see mistake after mistake after mistake. Dead walls, stores moved inside without street interaction, non-retail or government offices at street level, and buildings with restricted or no public access. There was no coherent planning of Sparks Street, beyond the mall itself. Individual buildings were put up or repurposed without any consideration of an overall plan for the success of the street. It is pretty sad what all the architects and planners did.

[AndyMEng]

In the comments I've heard that rib fest is great because people are out on street, animating the streetscape.

Have you even tried to use a washroom during the weekend at Ribfest?

The entire length of Sparks (well, 75% of it) is inaccessible walls, no connectivity to any of the real-estate, no publicly accessible anything. There's a few restaurants, pubs, and a timmies, but a severe lack of anything else.

3 Brewers and the Bier Markt are outliers in the patio/street interaction scene. The new iteration of Nates tries real hard but I ate there once and it was gross.

I have to hand it to the restaurant (lebanese?) at the Metcalfe-to-Elgin block. Livieliest things I've seen on Sparks in the last few years with music and dancing to all hours in the summer.

The NCC/Government doesn't have to vacate their office space, but some serious planning thought needs to go into Sparks. The entire street should be bursting with patios all summer long. Banning food trucks was a serious mistake.

I live at Bank and Nepean, which to me is the border between Residential and Office. People venture to Shoppers at Laurier on the weekends, but after that it's dead. South of Nepean, down to Gladstone is bustling at all hours. Residential is the answer.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There was no coherent planning of Sparks Street, beyond the mall itself. Individual buildings were put up or repurposed without any consideration of an overall plan for the success of the street. It is pretty sad what all the architects and planners did.

"Coherent plans" are what killed Sparks.

Less plans. More "letting" of things. The only planning-based prohibitions should be to disallow the kinds of bad street-level uses that kill the public realm. Start by getting rid of the anal-retentive rules about when patios are allowed to open for the season.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is still the best east-west street across downtown. The others are even worse. We need to connect our downtown attractions, while we are planning to extend to the west across Lebreton. We cannot have a dead zone in the middle.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Developing LeBreton Flats and having a destination at the west end of Sparks will do wonders for the pedestrian thruway aspect of the street,

I have troubles with this argument. How many people in a year will walk on Spark Street from one end to the other (or even for a major portion of it). Sure it might be a nice walk on a beautiful day, but that is what, maybe 4 months of the year at most? On top of that, traffic is allowed on Sparks Street west of Lyon, so it won't be a car free route to LeBreton anyway.

[zzptichka]

Maybe ditch these off-putting stupid patio fences too?



What's the reasoning behind them anyway? Seems like it's strictly North American thing.

[Kitchissippi]

I bet it's to delineate the alcohol licence area

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I bet it's to delineate the alcohol licence area

Definitely. We're not allowed to drink in public but we're allowed to drink in public, if you know what I mean.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I have troubles with this argument. How many people in a year will walk on Spark Street from one end to the other (or even for a major portion of it). Sure it might be a nice walk on a beautiful day, but that is what, maybe 4 months of the year at most? On top of that, traffic is allowed on Sparks Street west of Lyon, so it won't be a car free route to LeBreton anyway.

At the moment, few will walk the length of Sparks Street, true. But, we are going to build the Central Library west of Bronson and Zibi, and the whole Lebreton project. Everything will change at that point. We will have a critical mass of attractions that will change pedestrian behaviour. I would rather funnel those pedestrians on to our pedestrian mall than scatter them on a variety of streets that have little hope of having much street presence, even less than Sparks. This is typical of well planned cities. I saw that last year in Copenhagen. A nice pedestrian mall attracted people and surrounding streets are pretty dead. This is what we want to happen, so that one street shines, rather than no streets, which will be the alternative.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At the moment, few will walk the length of Sparks Street, true. But, we are going to build the Central Library west of Bronson and Zibi, and the whole Lebreton project. Everything will change at that point. We will have a critical mass of attractions that will change pedestrian behaviour. I would rather funnel those pedestrians on to our pedestrian mall than scatter them on a variety of streets that have little hope of having much street presence, even less than Sparks. This is typical of well planned cities. I saw that last year in Copenhagen. A nice pedestrian mall attracted people and surrounding streets are pretty dead. This is what we want to happen, so that one street shines, rather than no streets, which will be the alternative.

I'm reminded of Stockholm's Drottninggatan street, which is amazing year-round (and definitely just about the same as Sparks as far as weather). However, note that 100% of the leaseable, ground level space is rented to well-known shops and hundreds of bars and restaurants. People literally travel to stay for the weekend to just walk the street.

The street extends from parliament at the south to a park in the north, and is bordered by the financial district (central bank), movie theatres, a market, the central train station, etc. Oh sigh, what could have been in Ottawa had we just stayed the course 100 years ago.

Note in the following images:
-Year-round decoration (Sparks is ok for that)
-International Brands like Zara, the Body Shop, and H&M (one area has THREE H&M's side by side, lol... I guess that's Sweden for you) Has the Rideau Centre taken over control of these brands?
-Tunnelbana Entrances dotted along the entire length of the street.
-Swedish Style.

Here's a few photos for inspiration:


http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/19c4b4dc19...olm-d4xr76.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/travellingboomer.c...kholm-mall.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/5933bdcd3b...den-a1kper.jpg

http://www.totallystockholm.se/wp-co...gatan_web2.jpg

I guess what we're missing is density of commercial business:

http://storage.ottawasun.com/v1/dyna....jpg?size=520x

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

I'm reminded of Stockholm's Drottninggatan street, which is amazing year-round (and definitely just about the same as Sparks as far as weather). However, note that 100% of the leaseable, ground level space is rented to well-known shops and hundreds of bars and restaurants. People literally travel to stay for the weekend to just walk the street.

The street extends from parliament at the south to a park in the north, and is bordered by the financial district (central bank), movie theatres, a market, the central train station, etc. Oh sigh, what could have been in Ottawa had we just stayed the course 100 years ago.

-Tunnelbana Entrances dotted along the entire length of the street.

That's another thing. Although the Confederation Line is already pretty far north in our CBD, it would have been nice to have entrances along Sparks. Hopefully, exits at Heritage Place and PDV can at least direct people to Sparks.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

I'm reminded of Stockholm's Drottninggatan street, which is amazing year-round (and definitely just about the same as Sparks as far as weather). However, note that 100% of the leaseable, ground level space is rented to well-known shops and hundreds of bars and restaurants. People literally travel to stay for the weekend to just walk the street.

The street extends from parliament at the south to a park in the north, and is bordered by the financial district (central bank), movie theatres, a market, the central train station, etc. Oh sigh, what could have been in Ottawa had we just stayed the course 100 years ago.

Note in the following images:
-Year-round decoration (Sparks is ok for that)
-International Brands like Zara, the Body Shop, and H&M (one area has THREE H&M's side by side, lol... I guess that's Sweden for you) Has the Rideau Centre taken over control of these brands?
-Tunnelbana Entrances dotted along the entire length of the street.
-Swedish Style.

Here's a few photos for inspiration:

But you can't take something completely out of context from one city to another. That would be like complaining that TD place isn't like Camp Nou.

If 10 years ago Drottninggatan and been a dull, dead end, failed experiment of the 1960s running through an office building district and surrounded by government buildings and Stockholm had found a way to turn it into a vibrant shopping street then that would be a useful lesson for Ottawa.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At the moment, few will walk the length of Sparks Street, true. But, we are going to build the Central Library west of Bronson and Zibi, and the whole Lebreton project. Everything will change at that point. (snip rest)

I have a dream that sees the removal of the barren Garden of the Provinces and restoration of the old Sparks St. split, to take folks down to the Flats.

A photo courtesy of Urbsite (http://urbsite.blogspot.ca/2017/10/r...-stations.html to remind:

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by MarkR

I have a dream that sees the removal of the barren Garden of the Provinces and restoration of the old Sparks St. split, to take folks down to the Flats.

A photo courtesy of Urbsite (http://urbsite.blogspot.ca/2017/10/r...-stations.html to remind:

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's another thing. Although the Confederation Line is already pretty far north in our CBD, it would have been nice to have entrances along Sparks. Hopefully, exits at Heritage Place and PDV can at least direct people to Sparks.

As discussed above, the Lyon Station East Entrance (i.e. PDV) will be in the basement mall. You can exit the mall onto Spark Street (as well as both sides of Queen).

The basement food court in Heritage Place will have a connection to the Parliament Station East Entrance, but I don't think there is an entrance to the food court from Sparks Street. That could change eventually.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The basement food court in Heritage Place will have a connection to the Parliament Station East Entrance, but I don't think there is an entrance to the food court from Sparks Street. That could change eventually.

There's a food court at Heritage Place? The Winners is there, and I think they could easily reconfigure a hallway so that the escalator becomes public access to and from the LRT independent of the store entrance. They could even put one of those lifesaver lollypop signs at the corner of Sparks and O'Connor

[Casablanca]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But you can't take something completely out of context from one city to another. That would be like complaining that TD place isn't like Camp Nou.

If 10 years ago Drottninggatan and been a dull, dead end, failed experiment of the 1960s running through an office building district and surrounded by government buildings and Stockholm had found a way to turn it into a vibrant shopping street then that would be a useful lesson for Ottawa.

I think there are still lessons to be learnt from successful pedestrian malls that have remained successful. You just have to look more carefully at what brings people there, rather than having a simple list of changes that have been made to improve usage.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MarkR

I have a dream that sees the removal of the barren Garden of the Provinces and restoration of the old Sparks St. split, to take folks down to the Flats.

I'm confused. Are you wanting to open up a road to allow cars to drive down the hill from Spark Street? With Spark Street only being open to vehicles for 1 block east of the split, I don't see the value in that.

For pedestrians and cyclists, there already is a pathway through the Garden of the Provinces (as shown by the blue dotted line below). It may need to be spruced up and the connection at the bottom of the hill will need to be improved, but the new Central Library will help with the latter (see second image below).





As for the Garden of the Provinces being barren, I suspect part of the problem is it is on the edge of town and there is no reason for anyone to go there. With the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats and the building of the new Central Library, the Garden will become more centralized and thus more likely to be used (it will be a short walk from the new Library for example).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

There's a food court at Heritage Place? The Winners is there, ...

Oops. You are correct and the Winners is there.

... and I think they could easily reconfigure a hallway so that the escalator becomes public access to and from the LRT independent of the store entrance. They could even put one of those lifesaver lollypop signs at the corner of Sparks and O'Connor

If you look at the plan for the Retail Concourse, they have kept options open for alternate entrances into the retail space.


(full drawing at http://www.morguardlrtupdates.com/PD..._Layout_R1.pdf)

[J.OT13]

Thanks for these, never seen them. So does Heritage Place have a food court and decent retail concourse? I've never actually been inside.

Disappointed the only elevator entrance to Parliament is from the sidewalk. Feels like they're treating those with reduced mobility as second class.

EDIT: Just checked out the plans and I don't quite understand the "future connection". It would bring people to the same retail concourse as the initial connection. Is that just in anticipation for a higher volume of daily entries/exits? If so, did the City plan an additional entrance to the PdV concourse, because the hallway from the station concourse to the PdV underground mall is extremely narrow.

I hope the City also left room and knock-out panels for additional entrances in the future because I feel like the ones at Lyon and Parliament will be over capacity in no time. At Parliament, a future entrance in the WEP would be huge. For Lyon, I could see the old Delta complex (now Hilton complex I guess). CDH might be a stretch.