NHL season 2017/2018

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Yes, if you hold the view that Houston would have been a suitable landing spot for that franchise.

The situation in Atlanta didn't happen overnight. The fact that the best that the NHL could do in the circumstances was measly old Winnipeg should tell you something... had there been a bidding war between Houston and Winnipeg, there is no doubt in my mind that the team would have become the Houston Thrashers. But there were no takers in Houston.

The NHL has had over a hundred years to evolve beyond being a niche sport in most of the US. I don't think another decade will make much of a difference.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

The NHL has had over a hundred years to evolve beyond being a niche sport in most of the US. I don't think another decade will make much of a difference.

In some parts of the country, sure. In areas where there have been franchises for a long time (Original Six, Expansion-era) you can make the argument that those teams have the potential to be the most popular teams in their markets on given nights.

Hockey is still bigger in places like Missouri, Texas, Illinois, Arizona, California, and the Carolinas than ever before. It's always going to have an uphill struggle when going up against the likes of baseball and football (and increasingly soccer).

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by esquire

The situation in Atlanta didn't happen overnight. The fact that the best that the NHL could do in the circumstances was measly old Winnipeg should tell you something... had there been a bidding war between Houston and Winnipeg, there is no doubt in my mind that the team would have become the Houston Thrashers. But there were no takers in Houston.

The NHL has had over a hundred years to evolve beyond being a niche sport in most of the US. I don't think another decade will make much of a difference.

Houston is one of the largest unserved NHL markets and one with a long hockey history. The Houston Aeros were THE most successful WHA franchise and were very close to becoming an NHL team. Subsequent to that they had a very good IHL and then AHL team. Having a franchise in Houston would add way more to HRR than Winnipeg ever will.

In that light, the existence of the Jets has hurt the league.

[esquire]

^ It would also be wonderful for the NHL's bottom line if Japan caught hockey mania and the Oilers and Flames both moved to Tokyo. But that's wishful thinking, much the same way that moving the Thrashers to Houston was in 2011.

[DoubleK]

It's useless.

You are right, Winnipeg is the highest and best use for the Thrashers franchise by any and every possible measure as opposed to being in the right place at the right time with cash on hand.

Sorry for having a contrary opinion.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It's useless.

You are right, Winnipeg is the highest and best use for the Thrashers franchise by any and every possible measure as opposed to being in the right place at the right time with cash on hand.

Sorry for having a contrary opinion.

I think some of you may be putting the NHL on a bit of a pedestal.

Was Winnipeg the only place with an arena and a couple of rich guys looking to buy a sports team? C'mon, man.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Seattle collected 25000 season ticket deposits in the first hour of their ticket drive, damn!
https://www.tsn.ca/seattle-hockey-fa...hour-1.1015000

While Vegas only had 9,000.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4060819/s...cket-deposits/

Vegas' team I think depends mostly on tourism filling the seats and not the local population. I have no doubt Seattle will do well.

As for Québec, my guess would be that they will probably get a re-location team within the next 5-10 years. Same with Houston. The league will then sit at 32 teams for a while.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

While Vegas only had 9,000.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4060819/s...cket-deposits/

The drive garnered 9,000 in a month. They have 16,000 total.

https://www.nhl.com/news/las-vegas-f...ts/c-281931152

Originally Posted by NHL

The Las Vegas NHL franchise has received deposits on all 16,000 season tickets available for the 2017-18 season.

Fans are able to place deposits on season tickets, which will be fulfilled as they become available. A limited number of game-day tickets will be made available before the team begins play next season.

[J.OT13]

Took a year and a half!? Still not that impressive.

Seattle on the other hand, 33K in 48 hours? Now that's impressive!

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/03/04/se...n-ticket-drive

Anyone have the Winnipeg numbers?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Took a year and a half!? Still not that impressive.

It's a city in a desert with no previous pro sport team background - I think it's pretty good. Seattle will no doubt blow them out of the water, especially given the hockey background the city and region already has.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Anyone have the Winnipeg numbers?

13,000

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/winn...d-out-1.999140

[esquire]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Took a year and a half!? Still not that impressive.

Seattle on the other hand, 33K in 48 hours? Now that's impressive!

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/03/04/se...n-ticket-drive

Anyone have the Winnipeg numbers?

Yeah. It took 7 minutes to sell all 13,000 season tickets.

[Rollerstud98]

Did not know it was that quick in the peg, those were also all multi year commitments if I recall correctly.

[esquire]

^ Yes they were. To this day buying a Jets season ticket means a multi year commitment.

[drew]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Houston is one of the largest unserved NHL markets and one with a long hockey history. The Houston Aeros were THE most successful WHA franchise and were very close to becoming an NHL team. Subsequent to that they had a very good IHL and then AHL team. Having a franchise in Houston would add way more to HRR than Winnipeg ever will.

In that light, the existence of the Jets has hurt the league.

If someone in Houston wanted an NHL team - there would be one there. There hasn't been anyone in Houston willing to put up the $$ to bring a team there. End of discussion.

The existence of the Jets at the very least improved HRR with respect to what was being provided by the Atlanta Thrashers. The Jets have hurt nothing.

Except for the feelings of a few forumers from Edmonton back in 2011, and now apparently someone else from Alberta is getting their knickers in a knot.

Winnipeg has been slumming down the NHL since 2011. It's time to get over it.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by drew

If someone in Houston wanted an NHL team - there would be one there. There hasn't been anyone in Houston willing to put up the $$ to bring a team there. End of discussion.

From November, 2017:

Originally Posted by Sportsnet

Earlier this year Tilman Fertitta bought the NBA’s Houston Rockets and the Toyota Center for a cool $2.2 billion.

And now that he has the Rockets and the arena, Fertitta’s next task is securing more guaranteed dates for the Toyota Center. The best solution: 45 dates of NHL action. That’s 41 regular season and four pre-season games per year. Fertitta has been transparent about his desire to land an NHL team for his arena.

It’s quite a turnaround from the position of previous Rockets owner, Les Alexander, who was unhappy after being used as leverage in the 1990s by then Oilers owner Peter Pocklington to secure a better arena deal in Edmonton. There was talk Pocklington might sell to Alexander and see the Oilers move to Houston. When that didn’t happen, Alexander suddenly decided he no longer wanted a hockey team in Houston competing with his basketball club.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...na-relocation/

Alexander hated the NHL for years after the Pocklington moves, and he wanted nothing to do with the NHL in Houston. Since he effectively controlled the arena he controlled the market. This would have been why the Thrashers never ended up Houston, and this is why the AHL Aeros moved to Iowa.

If the NHL can find an appealing dance partner to enter with Houston it might make sense to go to 34 in the 2020s.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If the NHL can find an appealing dance partner to enter with Houston it might make sense to go to 34 in the 2020s.

Maybe that can be Quebec City's moment. Bettman would get to expand his American market and appease Canadian fans at the same time.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It's useless.

You are right, Winnipeg is the highest and best use for the Thrashers franchise by any and every possible measure as opposed to being in the right place at the right time with cash on hand.

Sorry for having a contrary opinion.

I hope you aren't implying with your comments that the NHL, rather than pursuing the market with the higher ceiling and likely higher revenues in Houston or Kansas or wherever else, decided to give the team to Winnipeg because they felt bad for the way the team left 17 years previous and wanted to right a wrong. Because that would be malarkey.

The fact is there was no market with an arena AND an interested ownership group that was willing to take on the displaced Thrashers franchise in the spring of 2011. Alexander, the then owner of the Houston Rockets and individual with exclusive rights to the arena, had no interest in a team. There was no interested group in Kansas City despite a new arena without any tenant (arena still profitably without one), Las Vegas had no appropriate arena nor any interested ownership group, and Seattle had a basketball arena which would seat 11,000 for hockey (plus no notably interested ownership group last I remember).

Back to my comments on Houston, while it is likely the team would provide higher revenues than Winnipeg, nothing is guaranteed. Atlanta is nearly as big as Houston and yet the Thrashers franchise reportedly only averaged $50 or million per year in total revenues in the last several years in the market (before revenue-sharing). Apparently Winnipeg had $30 - $50 million more in revenues than Atlanta following the first year north of the border.

A houston team with a few stinker seasons could end up in a similar situation for all we know....

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Took a year and a half!? Still not that impressive.

Seattle on the other hand, 33K in 48 hours? Now that's impressive!

https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/03/04/se...n-ticket-drive

Anyone have the Winnipeg numbers?

Keep in mind Vegas would not take any deposits from the casinos for several months I think as they wanted to focus on the general populace who would actually attend games vs. casinos handing out comps to guests who may or may not attend the games thus leaving plenty of empty seats.

We should keep in mind that the casinos are the biggest business in town. If they had not been excluded in the initial ticket offerings, it is likely the team would have sold out their season tickets within weeks, maybe days.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

From November, 2017:


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...na-relocation/

Alexander hated the NHL for years after the Pocklington moves, and he wanted nothing to do with the NHL in Houston. Since he effectively controlled the arena he controlled the market. This would have been why the Thrashers never ended up Houston, and this is why the AHL Aeros moved to Iowa.

If the NHL can find an appealing dance partner to enter with Houston it might make sense to go to 34 in the 2020s.

Yes, the new owner in Houston has displayed interest in an NHL team. Unless a miracle happens and the Coyotes somehow get another arena in Scottsdale or somewhere in the west side of town, Houston should be the frontrunners.

Calgary would be a darkhorse contender for relocation in the next 5 years if a new arena is not secured. No doubt Houston would provide considerably more HRR long term than a Calgary team, especially one that depends so much on a dying industry...I mean isn't that what it's all about? The NHL shouldn't leave any money on the table according to one poster so if Calgary can't figure out an arena deal, move 'em to the city with 5 times the population.

[esquire]

^ Very good point, next to a town like Houston, Calgary and Winnipeg are practically indistinguishable. Small markets ripe for the picking, except only one has an arena built for the long haul. The sky's the limit in Houston!